Spring options for station wagon
#2284448
04/08/17 03:58 PM
04/08/17 03:58 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817 Eugene, Oregon
Secret Chimp
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
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The original springs on my 67 Coronet station wagon are about done. ESPO would not quote me - they claim that SW springs used a thicker steel and the rear shackles were different too.
I know I have a tailgate and some extra roof, but I assume I can go ahead and use sedan springs with a higher rate and not have them whizz apart like a feeler gauge at the first corner I take.
I'm thinking something in the 150lb range? I have seen guys with 3200-3300# cars run these springs for race and the wagon carried 300-400lbs curb weight additional. I'm not sure if my Deluxe actually would've been 3,625lb as I have found since that number isn't listed as with/without AC, roof rack, other junk I don't have.
The car handles okay with the stock tired springs and upgraded sways, so I don't want to go nuts. Does AFCO vs Mopar XHD vs anyone else make a difference? Composite would be overkill for me. I will be pairing them with either .96 or 1.03 T-bars and I'm using Hotchkis' Fox shocks (not the very latest, the ones from a couple years ago).
1967 Dodge Coronet Deluxe station wagon
1.03" T-bars, QA1 arms/rods, Cordoba/GM Metric/Volare brake & knuckle, XHDs, Hellwig rear sway, 318 Magnum w/ air gap, 727, 3.23s
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Re: Spring options for station wagon
[Re: Secret Chimp]
#2284778
04/09/17 01:35 PM
04/09/17 01:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667 Los Osos, Ca
CKessel
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667
Los Osos, Ca
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Check with your neighbors down in Vancouver, aka Firm Feel. You may want to get the car scaled so you can get the total weight plus front to back and corners.
Carl Kessel
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Re: Spring options for station wagon
[Re: Twostick]
#2284859
04/09/17 04:16 PM
04/09/17 04:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817 Eugene, Oregon
Secret Chimp
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
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At first I couldn't find that rate you're quoting - if I put in a 318 like the car has, it only showed me 130lb as the highest rate. But then I put in a 440 and they showed up. I currently have 6 leaf springs on the car so I'm guessing it probably rolled out with a 130lb rate. How would this thing likely ride at a 175lb rate? I understand that spring rates used to be much softer largely for the sake of shock technology being unable to handle damping required for higher rates, but I have no real understanding of the effective difference especially on leaf spring suspensions. If I go clop clop down the highway like an empty pickup it'll kind of ruin the car.
1967 Dodge Coronet Deluxe station wagon
1.03" T-bars, QA1 arms/rods, Cordoba/GM Metric/Volare brake & knuckle, XHDs, Hellwig rear sway, 318 Magnum w/ air gap, 727, 3.23s
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Re: Spring options for station wagon
[Re: CKessel]
#2284864
04/09/17 04:19 PM
04/09/17 04:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817 Eugene, Oregon
Secret Chimp
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
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Check with your neighbors down in Vancouver, aka Firm Feel. You may want to get the car scaled so you can get the total weight plus front to back and corners. I really keep forgetting they're in Vancouver. I am actually moving much closer to their shop in May or June and I need a new steering box too, so I'll pay them a visit before I pull the trigger on this.
1967 Dodge Coronet Deluxe station wagon
1.03" T-bars, QA1 arms/rods, Cordoba/GM Metric/Volare brake & knuckle, XHDs, Hellwig rear sway, 318 Magnum w/ air gap, 727, 3.23s
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Re: Spring options for station wagon
[Re: Secret Chimp]
#2285245
04/10/17 12:08 PM
04/10/17 12:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
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The parts book shows 3 possible spring packs that were installed on '67 Cornet wagons. The spring packs were unique to the wagons, but the main leaf was the same as used on Taxi sedans and all Heavy Duty packs except the Hi-Po cars (which got unique left/right springs).
170 lbs/in spring rate seems a bit high for a production leaf pack. For comparison, Direct Connection Super Stock springs were 160 lbs/in.
Standard Spring, with bushing Station Wagon, - 2 Seat 2585 638 - 3 Seat 2585 639 - Police 2585 644
Heavy Duty Spring, with bushing Station Wagon, - 2 Seat 2585 644 - 3 Seat 2585 645
Main Leaf, w/ bushing Std. Station Wagon, Taxi: 2485 648 Heavy Duty, All except 426, 440: 2485 648
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Re: Spring options for station wagon
[Re: Mattax]
#2285859
04/11/17 03:22 PM
04/11/17 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817 Eugene, Oregon
Secret Chimp
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
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The parts book shows 3 possible spring packs that were installed on '67 Cornet wagons. The spring packs were unique to the wagons, but the main leaf was the same as used on Taxi sedans and all Heavy Duty packs except the Hi-Po cars (which got unique left/right springs).
170 lbs/in spring rate seems a bit high for a production leaf pack. For comparison, Direct Connection Super Stock springs were 160 lbs/in.
Standard Spring, with bushing Station Wagon, - 2 Seat 2585 638 - 3 Seat 2585 639 - Police 2585 644
Heavy Duty Spring, with bushing Station Wagon, - 2 Seat 2585 644 - 3 Seat 2585 645
Main Leaf, w/ bushing Std. Station Wagon, Taxi: 2485 648 Heavy Duty, All except 426, 440: 2485 648
Thanks, this is good info to build on. Knowing I already have an HD main leaf in the stock pack is really helpful.
1967 Dodge Coronet Deluxe station wagon
1.03" T-bars, QA1 arms/rods, Cordoba/GM Metric/Volare brake & knuckle, XHDs, Hellwig rear sway, 318 Magnum w/ air gap, 727, 3.23s
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Re: Spring options for station wagon
[Re: ahy]
#2285884
04/11/17 04:20 PM
04/11/17 04:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
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AHY, Good points. I missed the intended t-bar upgrade in my intitial reading. And I run 200 lb/in Landrum leafs - no rear sway bar, with the current 1.09 t-bar (about 250 lb/in wheel rate). With the Spax shocks it's definately smoother over rough surfaces than my Wagoneer unloaded (live axles, leafs on all corners).
So here's my take. I don't know the weight distribution, cg, or general feel of the station wagons, so I only caution that unloaded it may feel a bit like an unloaded pickup truck (as my Wagoneer does). In any event, if going up in the rear roll rate through springs and/or sway bar, go up at the same time or before in the front.
Agreed going to .990 or 1.03 front torsion bars will be a big step up from stock. It's not so radical that it neccessarily demands a big jump in rear roll rate. The rear roll rate should increase at only a percentage of the front roll rate. This goes back to the Neutral Handling line. Exactly where you feel comfortable will depend on the tires, use, loading and any other changes.
As AHY wrote, keep us posted. Something a bit different and interesting.
Also agree FF are good people and they have some personal race track experience in addition to supplying the needs of street enthusiasts.
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