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#2278038 - 03/28/17 08:44 PM 470 dry sump engine on the dyno
AndyF Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
Got the new dry sump 470 up and running today. We broke it in and made a few pulls. It was making really nice power for being brand new, probably pick up a few more hp once everything gets sealed up properly.

First round of testing is with the Trick Flow 240 cc heads and then I'll switch over to the 270 cc heads for some back to back testing. I'll keep the same shortblock, cam, carb between heads but will have to change the intake manifold. I'm using the Wilson ported Mopar intake with the 240 heads but will use an as cast Indy 400-3 for the 270 tests. I'm sure the Indy intake will cost me some power but the 270 heads should more than make up for it.


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#2278044 - 03/28/17 08:50 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
LowDeck451 Offline
member

Registered: 03/01/17
Posts: 31
Loc: California USA
Beyond my pay grade but interesting nonetheless! Thanks for sharing!

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#2278061 - 03/28/17 09:23 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
ccdave Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 1565
Loc: Mopar Country, Mi
Nice set up Andy!

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#2278067 - 03/28/17 09:34 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
The new low profile billet dry sump pan seems to be working just fine. The oil level in the tank doesn't drop much as RPM goes up so that means the oil is being pulled out of the engine at the correct rate. I need to take a video of the oil level before I know for sure how this new pan is working but so far it seems to be fine. Oil pressure climbs with RPM which is good news.


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#2278084 - 03/28/17 10:04 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
Here is a link to a video of the console during a couple of the pulls we made today. Engine ran good, a leaky header gasket had us chasing our tails for a little while. When the header gasket leaks it makes the wideband sensors wonky. We thought we had a carb problem for a little bit until we figured out we just had a header gasket issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIUHd-2C1qY&feature=youtu.be

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#2278100 - 03/28/17 10:31 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
Azzkikrcuda Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1588
Loc: North Dakota
You should test the 270 heads with the same Wilson Modded M1 intake to see what it does even with the port mismatch. Since the intake Trick Flow recommends for these heads has a std. port window. I would be interested in the results of that test.
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The only Carbs I care about are under the hood!

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#2278106 - 03/28/17 10:39 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: Azzkikrcuda]
fast68plymouth Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10221
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Originally Posted By Azzkikrcuda
You should test the 270 heads with the same Wilson Modded M1 intake to see what it does even with the port mismatch. Since the intake Trick Flow recommends for these heads has a std. port window. I would be interested in the results of that test.


I agree....... That really seems like the logical progression in the testing....... Especially since TF says that's what they used for their evaluation of the 270 heads.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60' PRH is a Comp Cams W/D......competitive pricing on entire line. Custom cams available. ** dealer for Indy Cylinder Heads **

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#2278114 - 03/28/17 11:02 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: fast68plymouth]
sasquatch Offline
top fuel

Registered: 03/26/05
Posts: 2206
Loc: North Carolina
Or a kind soul could let you borrow a nicely ported 400-3 intake.....
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#2278122 - 03/28/17 11:12 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: sasquatch]
fast68plymouth Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10221
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Originally Posted By sasquatch
Or a kind soul could let you borrow a nicely ported 400-3 intake.....


Sure...... As the third one in the sequence.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60' PRH is a Comp Cams W/D......competitive pricing on entire line. Custom cams available. ** dealer for Indy Cylinder Heads **

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#2278126 - 03/28/17 11:16 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: fast68plymouth]
AndyF Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Originally Posted By Azzkikrcuda
You should test the 270 heads with the same Wilson Modded M1 intake to see what it does even with the port mismatch. Since the intake Trick Flow recommends for these heads has a std. port window. I would be interested in the results of that test.


I agree....... That really seems like the logical progression in the testing....... Especially since TF says that's what they used for their evaluation of the 270 heads.


Regardless of what TF says, I do not think the Wilson intake will work with the 270 heads. It bolts on there okay but there is so little material around the ports that I don't think the gasket can properly seal. I looked at it and decided not to run it since I didn't want to suck in the gasket during a pull.

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#2278128 - 03/28/17 11:19 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: sasquatch]
AndyF Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By sasquatch
Or a kind soul could let you borrow a nicely ported 400-3 intake.....


Might be an option down the road. I'm testing this week and it would cost a ton to overnight an intake across the country.

Depending on how things go I might do another round of testing down the road after I send this 400-3 off for porting. Might be nice to have another ported 400-3 on hand at that point to do a comparison.

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#2278132 - 03/28/17 11:21 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
Here is a walk around the engine while it is warming. The engine oil is interesting. It is a 5w-30 break in oil that is super clear. You can see it spraying around on the rocker arms but it doesn't block the view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hlw70nAao38

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#2278134 - 03/28/17 11:27 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
fast68plymouth Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10221
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Does the TF intake cover the ports of the 270 heads better than the m1?
If so, you could test that one on both sets of heads.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60' PRH is a Comp Cams W/D......competitive pricing on entire line. Custom cams available. ** dealer for Indy Cylinder Heads **

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#2278136 - 03/28/17 11:32 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
Yes, the TF has more material around the ports and it would probably seal up on the 270 heads. But it is a 4150 flange which throws another variable into the mix. I don't really want to do a 2 x 2 x 2 matrix of heads, intakes and carbs.

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#2278137 - 03/28/17 11:40 PM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
fast68plymouth Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10221
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Everyone has their own priorities when testing, but to my way of thinking....... To not do a back to back test where the only thing changed is the heads, really just muddies the waters about how the heads themselves compare.

Test the 240 heads with the TF intake and the 4150 carb of your choice..... Get a number.
Put the intake and carb back on the 270 heads as the starting point..... Get a number.
That's a back to back comparison without anything else skewing the results.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60' PRH is a Comp Cams W/D......competitive pricing on entire line. Custom cams available. ** dealer for Indy Cylinder Heads **

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#2278201 - 03/29/17 07:20 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: fast68plymouth]
BradH Offline
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13218
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
popcorn

Also, what are the dimensions of those dyno headers? scope
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#2278239 - 03/29/17 09:22 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 10046
Loc: Marion, South Carolina [><]
Why not just test the 240 heads w/ a comparable out of the box manifold like you're gonna do w/ the 270 heads?
Most people will not spend the big bucks like you did to have Wilson work their magic on an intake, so IMO you're giving the 240 heads an unfair advantage that will close the gap b/t the 2 heads.
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'70 hemicuda...8.91 at 150.5 mph street car...Mopar Action feature Dec. '14
'69 road runner 446" w/ Indy SRs
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#2278276 - 03/29/17 10:37 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF]
RustyM Offline
member

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
I think using the Trick Flow Intake on both set ups would accomplish some of that.
If adding compression and dry sump added 10 hp to the 240/ Wilson/ dominator configuration and we could see what the difference is with the trick flow Intake and 4150 Carb is- perhaps a pretty good baseline for seeing the difference the 270 heads make.

I really think the trick flow intake / 4150 Carb comparison is important and from there the
Other available intake/ carb combos .

Will a 337 intake make a good port match to the 270 heads .
Wondering what a 950 or 1000 cfm 4150 looks like on the 270 heads ?

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#2278280 - 03/29/17 10:46 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: BradH]
AndyF Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By BradH
popcorn

Also, what are the dimensions of those dyno headers? scope


2 x 32 with 3.5 collectors made by old Jere himself back around 2000 or so. They have held up well over the years. They were super expensive back then but I suppose it has been a good value over the years.

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#2278282 - 03/29/17 10:52 AM Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: an8sec70cuda]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 23031
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Why not just test the 240 heads w/ a comparable out of the box manifold like you're gonna do w/ the 270 heads?
Most people will not spend the big bucks like you did to have Wilson work their magic on an intake, so IMO you're giving the 240 heads an unfair advantage that will close the gap b/t the 2 heads.


Out of the box intakes stink, I've already proven that to myself multiple times with the 240 heads. The Victor 383 sucked, the Mopar M1 sucked, The Trick Flow intake didn't completely suck but it wasn't very good until Hughes did the deep port match. The Wilson modified M1 is the best low deck intake I have so that is my starting point. I expect the Indy intake to be fairly poor but we'll find out shortly.

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