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Re: Predator heads [Re: slick526] #2272431
03/19/17 04:52 PM
03/19/17 04:52 PM
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dthemi Offline
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The predator made for hemi blocks is a better place to start. The wedge requires a removable plug in the intake port. Seriously limiting what you can do with the head. Also the 600 head isn't as good. A nice head for sure, but it is what it is. You can exceed indy's claims for power if you're willing to spend what it takes to do it. As soon as i can get another +.500 deck block Ill be building a 1400hp na predator.

Re: Predator heads [Re: dthemi] #2272523
03/19/17 07:48 PM
03/19/17 07:48 PM
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San Jose Ca.
boatracer572 Offline
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Originally Posted By dthemi
The predator made for hemi blocks is a better place to start. The wedge requires a removable plug in the intake port. Seriously limiting what you can do with the head. Also the 600 head isn't as good. A nice head for sure, but it is what it is. You can exceed indy's claims for power if you're willing to spend what it takes to do it. As soon as i can get another +.500 deck block Ill be building a 1400hp na predator.


up

Re: Predator heads [Re: boatracer572] #2273011
03/20/17 02:31 PM
03/20/17 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted By boatracer572
[quote=dthemi]The predator made for hemi blocks is a better place to start. The wedge requires a removable plug in the intake port. Seriously limiting what you can do with the head. Also the 600 head isn't as good. A nice head for sure, but it is what it is. You can exceed indy's claims for power if you're willing to spend what it takes to do it. As soon as i can get another +.500 deck block Ill be building a 1400hp na predator.


OK how much hp are you leaving on the table using a wedge block?

Re: Predator heads [Re: slick526] #2273030
03/20/17 02:55 PM
03/20/17 02:55 PM
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Apparently a couple hundred smile


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Re: Predator heads [Re: slick526] #2273203
03/20/17 07:15 PM
03/20/17 07:15 PM
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I would stil prefer wedge block heads as I could just rebuild my current engine to use them and probably turbo it at the same time on a leaf spring x275 car that would make enough power to be fun lol

Re: Predator heads [Re: dthemi] #2273213
03/20/17 07:35 PM
03/20/17 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted By dthemi
The predator made for hemi blocks is a better place to start. The wedge requires a removable plug in the intake port. Seriously limiting what you can do with the head. Also the 600 head isn't as good. A nice head for sure, but it is what it is. You can exceed indy's claims for power if you're willing to spend what it takes to do it. As soon as i can get another +.500 deck block Ill be building a 1400hp na predator.


KB should have blocks in stock shortly. Not sure about a raised deck block though but I think they'll have raised cam blocks for sure.

Re: Predator heads [Re: slick526] #2273215
03/20/17 07:36 PM
03/20/17 07:36 PM
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From my understanding KB will be making 4 blocks. Hemi std cam and raised, Wedge std cam and raised. Sounds like no plans to do anything else other than getting to work on the Gen III program.

I was just poking on the 200hp comment. Darren is correct the plug in the port will limit what could be done to the port at a cost is no object scenario. For most of us I don't think there will be a ton of difference ultimately. I believe Jason Digby's is a Wedge deal and it does ok.


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Re: Predator heads [Re: slick526] #2274139
03/22/17 10:30 AM
03/22/17 10:30 AM
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Can't say exactly how much different it is between them. Just that it can't be made as thin up there, and the hole adds to destabilizing the valve train. Then having something shaped like that, and that thin threaded into the port is going to leak, and crack eventually. When you have to mow a hole all the way through, top to bottom, then plug off the top, why expose yourself to all the potential problems if you're starting from scratch? Starting with a wedge block, i'd still take the preds over the 600.

As for blocks, no one is going to do it for a while as I understand it. AJPE says they may be in the mopar block business soon, so maybe. I can take a standard deck, and plate it up, but then I'm still stuck with 48 degree lifter angles. A .5 up deck with 45 degree lifters really helps, and I don't want to do it any other way.


I thought Digby's stuff was forced induction.

When the summer is over, if blocks aren't available I may just redo the one I have as an NA. More stroke, +.03 bore, more valve, an NA cam, more compression, thinner rings with 20 pounds less tension, lighter piston, and pins, lighter rods, way way more port volume, shorter runner manifold, big bore carbs, take the nitrous taper out of the quench, correct the lifter galley oil waste, and get serious about weening it off oil. Not having to contend with the nitrous will make it reasonable to drop the pressure in half.

I've swapped my car from a 2 to a 3 speed, so the motor could stand to be more peaky now.

Re: Predator heads [Re: dthemi] #2274160
03/22/17 11:43 AM
03/22/17 11:43 AM
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As Darren said, the 45 degree lifter angle is the biggest drawback to the raised cam block from KB or anyone unwilling to finish a block to suit. Offset lifter bores help too. All custom work though. I would worry too much about the wedge plugs. I've had no problems with mine, but it's not an all out Predator either.

Re: Predator heads [Re: dthemi] #2274162
03/22/17 11:50 AM
03/22/17 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted By dthemi
Can't say exactly how much different it is between them. Just that it can't be made as thin up there, and the hole adds to destabilizing the valve train. Then having something shaped like that, and that thin threaded into the port is going to leak, and crack eventually. When you have to mow a hole all the way through, top to bottom, then plug off the top, why expose yourself to all the potential problems if you're starting from scratch? Starting with a wedge block, i'd still take the preds over the 600.

As for blocks, no one is going to do it for a while as I understand it. AJPE says they may be in the mopar block business soon, so maybe. I can take a standard deck, and plate it up, but then I'm still stuck with 48 degree lifter angles. A .5 up deck with 45 degree lifters really helps, and I don't want to do it any other way.


I thought Digby's stuff was forced induction.

When the summer is over, if blocks aren't available I may just redo the one I have as an NA. More stroke, +.03 bore, more valve, an NA cam, more compression, thinner rings with 20 pounds less tension, lighter piston, and pins, lighter rods, way way more port volume, shorter runner manifold, big bore carbs, take the nitrous taper out of the quench, correct the lifter galley oil waste, and get serious about weening it off oil. Not having to contend with the nitrous will make it reasonable to drop the pressure in half.

I've swapped my car from a 2 to a 3 speed, so the motor could stand to be more peaky now.


thx for the clarification....so only one hole in one port?im trying to visualize it but not familiar with preds at all any pix?

Last edited by KOS; 03/22/17 11:51 AM.
Re: Predator heads [Re: slick526] #2274242
03/22/17 02:37 PM
03/22/17 02:37 PM
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Screw in plug in the ports over top of the valley bolt. The plug is in it when ported, so when it comes out, the bottom is shaped like the port. Making it tough to keep it that way. Each time it goes in and out it has to line back up with the port walls, and because it's not flat the threads are tough to start. All I'm really saying is, if you have a wedge block, it'll work fine, just a better place to start with a hemi block, if you're starting from zero.

Re: Predator heads [Re: slick526] #2274296
03/22/17 04:02 PM
03/22/17 04:02 PM
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sounds like a PIA...........then you have to worry about cracking, leakage and longevity.i cant win trying to upgrade from B1s i own 2 indy maxx blocks(wedge)and everywhere i turn its a dead end.staying mopar loyal is really TUFF!!

Re: Predator heads [Re: slick526] #2274309
03/22/17 04:23 PM
03/22/17 04:23 PM
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Mine are Wedge heads, and as stated I believe Jasons is as well. At any rate yes there is a plug to deal with in the port. We have not had any issues with it. They are numbered so we know where they go and have had them out a few times. You have to in order to bolt the heads on. I run 1300+ open pressure and so far so good. But not a ton of run time on it yet.


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Re: Predator heads [Re: Al_Alguire] #2274416
03/22/17 07:50 PM
03/22/17 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
Mine are Wedge heads, and as stated I believe Jasons is as well. At any rate yes there is a plug to deal with in the port. We have not had any issues with it. They are numbered so we know where they go and have had them out a few times. You have to in order to bolt the heads on. I run 1300+ open pressure and so far so good. But not a ton of run time on it yet.


Well Al thats pretty reasurring and i thought Jasons where as well and i imagine his spex are pretty stout also so i guess time will tell.im in no rush got bigger fish to fry right now but i always keep my eyes open for deals and didnt want to regret buying the wedge version.keep us posted if any issues arise.thx

Re: Predator heads [Re: slick526] #2274516
03/22/17 10:43 PM
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I am pretty sure that John Faraone's charger is a wedge block and he makes decent power from his street car predator combo the video below shows his engine build and his car on a hub dyno

https://youtu.be/anJ6G7aOhqI

Re: Predator heads [Re: slick526] #2274676
03/23/17 10:04 AM
03/23/17 10:04 AM
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Another forced induction motor. Any head with a decent chamber can make anything when you blow the mixture down it's throat. That's why you see 3000 pound cars with small blocks running in the threes on bicycle tires.

No one is saying you can't make power with the wedge. You'll just make more, and make it more reliably with the hemi platform.

Turbos are amazing in the power they can make. They're just not that interesting to me personally. When you can summon up another hundred hp with the turn of a screw, or a keyboard click the challenge becomes making the parts take it, not the search for power.

Working for another 5 once you've plateaued is where the interest for me begins.

Re: Predator heads [Re: slick526] #2274697
03/23/17 11:06 AM
03/23/17 11:06 AM
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turbo or NA (and it looks like he does alot of street driving)looks like its holding up so far making some serious steam but he may of had issues just makes me wonder why he started with a wedge platform.im not out to chase every drop of hp as long as i can make decent hp reliably im good.now if i had unlimited funds it would be another story LOL.

off topic how the hell does that car weight 4200lbs!!! Charga?

btw dt i appreciate your advice....have you ever played with the wedge version and seen issues?

Re: Predator heads [Re: KOS] #2274756
03/23/17 01:03 PM
03/23/17 01:03 PM
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I've never done a set of the wedge preds. I took a long look at both platforms before going hemi. I've talked to people who run the wedge stuff, and they've had issues with the plugs when you get after port volume. The ports are too small in the predator heads, and making them bigger is the best medicine. The plug makes that tough since you need enough material up there to have threads, and a way to turn the plug in. Just no way around it.

The small ports make them a low rpm head on a big inch NA motor.

Re: Predator heads [Re: slick526] #2274771
03/23/17 01:23 PM
03/23/17 01:23 PM
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I found some pictures for anyone interested.



and



Credit goes to this guy on a forum from a few years ago: Forum post

Re: Predator heads [Re: slick526] #2274811
03/23/17 02:48 PM
03/23/17 02:48 PM
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Indy fixed the cracking problem when they bought the predator heads from Steve Gill. Those are the first type run off of Deans Cuda.

The new revision that Indy sells has that problem fixed and are almost trouble free.


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