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Re: Four Wheel Disc Brakes-Is it worth It??
[Re: 65pacecar]
#2264250
03/06/17 12:50 PM
03/06/17 12:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Who makes the best kits for Mopars. Do you want to retain the factory axle adjustment, or go with Green Style bearings and eliminate the adjustment? DrDiff IIRC has the only kit on the market that retains the factory adjuster, utilizes Cobra components I personally have used several rear SSBC rear disc set up on 8 3/4 and DANA 60 axles, 15" rims are the minimum for clearance, you retain a parking brake, Green Bearings are required, utilizes Cobra components either kit will work depending on what you desire, just be sure to research or ask questions to avoid any pitfalls when installing any mfg's kit Thanks. I already have the Green Bearings for the car and plan to install them when I remove and restore the rear end. I plan to run 15" wheels on the car too. If the SSBC has a good system I will consider it, the front I installed from them appears to be nice quality, easy assembly. If you go with the SSBC rear discs, their instructions leave a lot to be desired (unless that's changed?), seeing how the kit is somewhat universal in that it gives you a broad spectrum of adjustment/fitment, just remember to center the caliper's pads/opening on the center of the rotor, I've seen too often some individuals bolt the caliper directly to the axle tube flange bracket supplied in the kit without shimming it in a centered location as it sits on the rotor, this leads to premature inner pad failure, and poor operation....what rear end are you running?, do you plan on removing the thrust button in the 3rd member? Many other variables to take into account: I generally try and design an ideal 70/30 to a minimum of 60/40 front to rear brake brake bias by choosing a set of rear discs based on what I'm running upfront caliper fluid volume wise as well as piston(s) diameter and pad/rotor surface area so I can avoid running a proportioning valve to limited the rear bias, I generally run the rearward line right off the master, and the front master line I'll "Tee" off for L/R, no distribution block, no proportioning block, generally I make most of my systems and customers systems power assist, running a dual diaphragm booster, if the engines vacuum can support it?, generally a stick car can get by with 8-10" vacuum, an automatic usually needs 15" vac minimum running a dual diaphragm booster to safely have repeated braking ability
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Re: Four Wheel Disc Brakes-Is it worth It??
[Re: 65pacecar]
#2264280
03/06/17 01:48 PM
03/06/17 01:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,551
Norwich CT USA
moparts
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,551
Norwich CT USA
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As it has been pointed out already in this thread.
If you have properly working big drum brakes it will stop the car fast and straight the first time. And even the second time
Where the disc are better is on the repeated stops with hot brakes
My RT Challenger with manual drum brakes, 11 x3 front , 11 x 2 1/2 rear would stop the drag car no problem, fast and straight from 120 mph
Tom ,
2011 Ram 3500 C&C Diesel
2009 Challenger R/T
1971 Challenger Conv. 511/4 speed
1970 Challenger R/T 503/727
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Re: Four Wheel Disc Brakes-Is it worth It??
[Re: 65pacecar]
#2264647
03/07/17 12:26 AM
03/07/17 12:26 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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I've aggressively driven a 4 wheel stock power drum, performance tired C body (as in drifting sideways on the highway at 140+) and an E body G machine with hydroboost assisted 13" discs with big sticky tires at 150+ that is run on road courses.
As long as the tires can hold the pavement, the brakes are fine. If the car skids - you have overpowered the tires and discs might give you better pedal feel but will skid the same tire just as easilly. Pretty simple physics there. Brakes can convert energy of motion to heat, but tires have to be able to manage that transition.
I agree with SuperC that most drum cars are not properly set or maintained. When they were being sold, four wheel drum cars were being adjusted 4-5 times a year and only driven 10K miles in the same time frame. I routinely have to readjust and balance customer's cars after driving them.
If your complaint is that your drum brakes lock up it may be your tires or an adjustment issue. Especially if the car turns as it brakes.
If your drum brakes fade from heat, you are using them too hard and should upgrade. Drum brakes are not good at repeated hard stops.
If you hit something and are in fear of hitting something else, pay better attention, think well ahead of where you are, slow down, or keep it parked. I assure you even supercars moving in parking lots hit stuff that pulls out in front of them. Impacts are not the result of a machine.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Four Wheel Disc Brakes-Is it worth It??
[Re: 65pacecar]
#2264656
03/07/17 12:43 AM
03/07/17 12:43 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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65pacecar, you got your moneys worth on this one!
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Four Wheel Disc Brakes-Is it worth It??
[Re: 65pacecar]
#2264761
03/07/17 10:51 AM
03/07/17 10:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,580
CT - just outside Hartford
Crazy73
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,580
CT - just outside Hartford
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I went 4-wheel disc from Dr Diff with the 13" Cobra front/rear kits that retain the parking brake feature.
Why?
Because a set of 10" or 11" drums wouldn't make much sense on a car with 18" wheels
Pete
-1968 Barracuda 4spd 383-6pk
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Re: Four Wheel Disc Brakes-Is it worth It??
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#2265518
03/08/17 12:31 PM
03/08/17 12:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,710
KY
65pacecar
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,710
KY
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Who makes the best kits for Mopars. Do you want to retain the factory axle adjustment, or go with Green Style bearings and eliminate the adjustment? DrDiff IIRC has the only kit on the market that retains the factory adjuster, utilizes Cobra components I personally have used several rear SSBC rear disc set up on 8 3/4 and DANA 60 axles, 15" rims are the minimum for clearance, you retain a parking brake, Green Bearings are required, utilizes Cobra components either kit will work depending on what you desire, just be sure to research or ask questions to avoid any pitfalls when installing any mfg's kit Thanks. I already have the Green Bearings for the car and plan to install them when I remove and restore the rear end. I plan to run 15" wheels on the car too. If the SSBC has a good system I will consider it, the front I installed from them appears to be nice quality, easy assembly. If you go with the SSBC rear discs, their instructions leave a lot to be desired (unless that's changed?), seeing how the kit is somewhat universal in that it gives you a broad spectrum of adjustment/fitment, just remember to center the caliper's pads/opening on the center of the rotor, I've seen too often some individuals bolt the caliper directly to the axle tube flange bracket supplied in the kit without shimming it in a centered location as it sits on the rotor, this leads to premature inner pad failure, and poor operation....what rear end are you running?, do you plan on removing the thrust button in the 3rd member? Many other variables to take into account: I generally try and design an ideal 70/30 to a minimum of 60/40 front to rear brake brake bias by choosing a set of rear discs based on what I'm running upfront caliper fluid volume wise as well as piston(s) diameter and pad/rotor surface area so I can avoid running a proportioning valve to limited the rear bias, I generally run the rearward line right off the master, and the front master line I'll "Tee" off for L/R, no distribution block, no proportioning block, generally I make most of my systems and customers systems power assist, running a dual diaphragm booster, if the engines vacuum can support it?, generally a stick car can get by with 8-10" vacuum, an automatic usually needs 15" vac minimum running a dual diaphragm booster to safely have repeated braking ability Thanks. I am running a 8-3/4 with 3.91. I have not considered the thrust button, what is the advantage of removing? I am planning to run green bearings on this car.
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Re: Four Wheel Disc Brakes-Is it worth It??
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2265519
03/08/17 12:32 PM
03/08/17 12:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,710
KY
65pacecar
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,710
KY
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65pacecar, you got your moneys worth on this one! It has been an interesting thread with some good information both ways. 
Last edited by 65pacecar; 03/08/17 12:33 PM.
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Re: Four Wheel Disc Brakes-Is it worth It??
[Re: 65pacecar]
#2265543
03/08/17 01:29 PM
03/08/17 01:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Thanks. I am running a 8-3/4 with 3.91. I have not considered the thrust button, what is the advantage of removing? I am planning to run green bearings on this car.
Generally if you where replacing just the bearings over to Greens there's no need to remove the thrust button, but when you retrofit an aftermarket rear disc kit, the spacers (if any) supplied with the kit to replace/restore the thickness of the drum brake plates discarded, are not the same thickness, so this moves the axles inward loading the thrust button excessively, or may even prevent you from seating the axles/bearings/flange... So you can either remove the thrust button from the 3rd member, or machine an axle/flange spacer that is of the same thickness of the brake backing plate your discarding if the spacer supplied in the kit is not adequate... I myself prefer to retain the thrust button and machine a set of spacers as required to position the axles in their "stock" location if needed, it's going to depend on the kit supplier, but measure all critical distances/specs of where the axles sit in there stock configuration before letting the parts fly off Mike
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Re: Four Wheel Disc Brakes-Is it worth It??
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#2265644
03/08/17 04:09 PM
03/08/17 04:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,710
KY
65pacecar
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,710
KY
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Thanks. I am running a 8-3/4 with 3.91. I have not considered the thrust button, what is the advantage of removing? I am planning to run green bearings on this car.
Generally if you where replacing just the bearings over to Greens there's no need to remove the thrust button, but when you retrofit an aftermarket rear disc kit, the spacers (if any) supplied with the kit to replace/restore the thickness of the drum brake plates discarded, are not the same thickness, so this moves the axles inward loading the thrust button excessively, or may even prevent you from seating the axles/bearings/flange... So you can either remove the thrust button from the 3rd member, or machine an axle/flange spacer that is of the same thickness of the brake backing plate your discarding if the spacer supplied in the kit is not adequate... I myself prefer to retain the thrust button and machine a set of spacers as required to position the axles in their "stock" location if needed, it's going to depend on the kit supplier, but measure all critical distances/specs of where the axles sit in there stock configuration before letting the parts fly off Mike Thank you for the tip, excellent information. I Have access to a full machine shop, I can design any spacer necessary and have it machined to spec. I appreciate the advice.
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