Re: School me on Dry Sump set ups.
[Re: rickseeman]
#2249065
02/07/17 01:34 PM
02/07/17 01:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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Cha-chingalingading Unless you are running Comp, Pro Stock, Pro Mod or a damn fast car that system is overkill. Unless you have the money.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: School me on Dry Sump set ups.
[Re: AndyF]
#2249115
02/07/17 02:58 PM
02/07/17 02:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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So while we are on dry sumps, gear, or roots style? And how many stages, 5?, 3 in pan, 1 valley?
Last edited by jcc; 02/07/17 03:00 PM.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: School me on Dry Sump set ups.
[Re: rebel]
#2249641
02/08/17 12:51 PM
02/08/17 12:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,653 Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
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master
Joined: Jan 2012
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
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It is better/simpler to let the dry sump pull the vacuum. 5 stages, 4 suction in pan and 1 pressure.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: School me on Dry Sump set ups.
[Re: rebel]
#2249659
02/08/17 01:22 PM
02/08/17 01:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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whats the deal with running a vac on a dry sump? are the scavenge pumps also acting as a vac pump or that extra? Yes.. the suction/scavenge lines will pull a vac.... also remember when you buy a pump that 1 port is the pressure port, so a 3 port has 2 suctions lines and a pressure.. I ran a 4 port on my R3 block.. 2 in the pan and 1 in the valley.. this was a dry sump block so the valley was sealed and had to have a line up there(unless you drilled return areas)
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Re: School me on Dry Sump set ups.
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2249661
02/08/17 01:27 PM
02/08/17 01:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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So pump was running approx 1/2? engine speed? How is proper pump speed calculated , or correctly verified once operational?
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: School me on Dry Sump set ups.
[Re: jcc]
#2249673
02/08/17 01:44 PM
02/08/17 01:44 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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So pump was running approx 1/2? engine speed? How is proper pump speed calculated , or correctly verified once operational? Yes 50% of engine is fine.. just watch the pressure of your system to verify... but 50% seems to be the proper amount for pretty much all of the engines... I borrowed a hand help tach on the center of the pump shaft to check mine... it was plenty close enough
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Re: School me on Dry Sump set ups.
[Re: jcc]
#2249805
02/08/17 05:39 PM
02/08/17 05:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050 Oregon
AndyF
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I Win
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Oregon
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So pump was running approx 1/2? engine speed? How is proper pump speed calculated , or correctly verified once operational? Rule of thumb for dry sump pumps is to run them at 57% of crank speed. I do not know where that rule comes from but you'll hear it from multiple vendors. Peterson offers different pump widths so you can tailor the amount of volume from the pump. For example, if you are using the pump to build vacuum in the engine then you might want to spin it faster than 57% of crank speed. In that case you might want to use a low volume pump section so you aren't sending a bunch of oil thru the relief valve. I use the narrowest possible pump section on my R4 pump and it still builds pressure with RPM. Watch the oil pressure on this dyno run and you can see what I'm saying. This is with the dry sump system and the oil pressure builds with RPM which tells you that the oil pump is big enough and/or the pump speed to too high. In my case I don't want to reduce the pump speed since I don't want to reduce pan vacuum and the oil pressure isn't too high so I leave it where it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zTAGAy081o
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Re: School me on Dry Sump set ups.
[Re: rebel]
#2250085
02/09/17 12:46 AM
02/09/17 12:46 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,200 aZLiViN
J_BODY
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I Live Here
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interesting reading.... I know pretty much nothing about dry sump. It just so happens that the "other" engine I picked up was pretty much complete less the tank and filtration. consider my stupid Q's nothing but "post bumps" at this point, I'm that far out of the loop. Considering it's a 9.0 deck block with no provision for standard oiling, and I have the pump and most of the plumbing and two pans, figured it would be "cost effective" to just use what I have. I think P cleared one possibility. I have one smaller AN hose from the pump to the valley cover. "Assuming" this is for top end oil. front line suction from front of pan, next two middle of pan, and back (smaller size) goes to valley cover the two center plug caps (silver) were hand tight, the end, which has plugs on both in/out were tight. Also an allen plug opposite the front line from the pan. So.... is a tank a tank? Any certain size for a drag only car?
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Re: School me on Dry Sump set ups.
[Re: rebel]
#2250236
02/09/17 11:14 AM
02/09/17 11:14 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 656 Florida
CJD AUTOMOTIVE
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 656
Florida
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I run a Dailey 5 stage on my R3. I have a gear pump section with lobe/rotor suction. It can pull well over 20" of vacuum, so you need an adjustable vacuum valve as well as a safety pressure valve. I too have 1 suction in the valley and 3 in the pan. Bill Dailey ask me specific questions on RPM, use, etc to determine the pump setup and speed.
I have a wet sump R3, but have my pressure feed split, one in the back, but also use the priority #1 main passage on the front of R3 blocks (on the front china rail).
I also have piston oilers installed on my block, mainly for turbo heat, but a side benefit of lubrication. The suction from the pump pulls the oil vapor from the crankcase, so the oilers help lubricate the walls.
Craig Scholl CJD Automotive, LLC Jacksonville, FL www.CJDAUTOMOTIVE.com904-400-1802 "I own a Mopar. I already know it won't be in stock, won't ship tomorrow, and won't fit without modification"
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Re: School me on Dry Sump set ups.
[Re: rebel]
#2250348
02/09/17 03:21 PM
02/09/17 03:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,376 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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I Live Here
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Las Vegas
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I run a 5 stage set up and this is my third. I can tell you the quality of the pump will determine the need for a vacuum pump in addition. With the Daily stuff there was no need for a vacuum pump. It pulled 20-22" of vacuum no problem. The Moroso and Peterson stuff I have used required a vacuum pump, they were 5-8" of vacuum with nothing else. Just got off the dyno with a stock car products one and it pulled 3" wit just the oil pump, all of these were 5 stage deals. From my experience Dailey stuff is HANDS down superior to the rest. You pay for that superiority to be sure, but IMO worth the money.
Getting the oil back in a BB Mopar is the biggest hurdle. One benefit is obviously less oil in the pan and reduced windage and if there is something catastrophic happens you have less oil in the pan to begin with. I have run both GOOD wet sump systems and a dry sump in a BB and frankly not sure there is any other huge benefit from the dry sump. If you run a Dailey pump you wont need a vacuum pump, anything else IMO you will need it. The expense can get up there for sure, but figure at least $4000 and up by the time you are done using something like a Moroso, or stock car products pump. The plumbing can get expensive for sure, one thing people don't take into account.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: School me on Dry Sump set ups.
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2250371
02/09/17 03:50 PM
02/09/17 03:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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So when is a steel pressure section a good option vs alum?
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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