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overheating problem on 440 motor #224400 02/14/09 01:15 PM 02/14/09 01:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 126 Indiana F F6F6Dodge OP member
F6F6Dodge OP member F Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 126 Indiana	I have a 440 that I can't get to run cool...What am I doing wrong???/ I have an aluminum water pump housing, high flow/volume pump, 160 degree thermostat, the biggest radiator "Glen-Ray" sells, 16in diameter pusher fan and 7 blade clutch fan with fan shroud...standard hi-po cast exhaust manifolds... This is on a 69 Daytona thus- very little opening for the air flow. I have all of the gaskets in place under the nose cone by the brackets to block off the air straight into the radiator...the pusher fan is in front of the radiator but only covers 16-18 in of opening ofthe 28 in radiator opening..is this the problem?? do I need to made shroud in front with the pusher fan to force all the air into the radiator??? or do I need a higher temp thermostat or slower standard water pump or something else??? any help would be fantastic!!!!!

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: F6F6Dodge] #224401 02/14/09 01:22 PM 02/14/09 01:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Not enough airflow. I'm assuming timing/mixture is close enough. I'd try it without the pusher & have the clutch fan blades partly into the shroud. 160 of a stat is too cold but I'd leave it alone until you fix this (unrelated to the 160 stat) issue. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: RapidRobert] #224402 02/14/09 01:46 PM 02/14/09 01:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 126 Indiana F F6F6Dodge OP member
F6F6Dodge OP member F Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 126 Indiana	I originally had it set up with out the pusher fan and it was way worse, but I wasn't sure the clutch mechanism on the fan was working,so I changed it out to a 7 blade fan without the clutch and added the pusher...this made it better but still not to where I think it should be....this summer after a 30-40 mile trip..I stopped for a couple minutes and the car vapor locked on me from the heat...

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: F6F6Dodge] #224403 02/14/09 02:11 PM 02/14/09 02:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	What do you call hot?

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: F6F6Dodge] #224404 02/14/09 02:42 PM 02/14/09 02:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: I originally had it set up with out the pusher fan and it was way worse, but I wasn't sure the clutch mechanism on the fan was working,so I changed it out to a 7 blade fan without the clutch and added the pusher...this made it better but still not to where I think it should be I'd try it w/o the pusher keeping the 7 blade. You might take the stat out for(1) day unless your sure it's opening fully & how far into the shroud is the fan but you said it's overheating "at speed" so that negates the fan but I'm just brainstorming at the moment. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: MoparforLife] #224405 02/14/09 02:44 PM 02/14/09 02:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,181 Lost in the ozone again S stubbs300 Vacation
stubbs300 Vacation S Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,181 Lost in the ozone again	No matter how much you change componets and do other things to the system. It's not going to work if there's a clog somewhere. Have you cleaned/flushed the block, and just the block? And I mean flush the snot out of it too! Otherwise you doing nothing but throwing money at the problem without fixing it.

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: stubbs300 ] #224406 02/14/09 02:55 PM 02/14/09 02:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 126 Indiana F F6F6Dodge OP member
F6F6Dodge OP member F Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 126 Indiana	As far as what do I consider hot---the radiator pukes everytime I turn off the car and I think I burned up the temp gauge in the dash from the heat..I am at the point to where I am going to tear the heads off the motor to see if the head gaskets were put on correctly as a long as if the heads are on the proper side of the motor....I bought the motor in long block form ready to bolt in...I was told that on 440's one could accidently put on the heads/head gaskets on the wrong side thus blocking the water jackets...is this true??? I don't know much about mechanics of motors so I really hate to start tearing off motor parts to get to the end of this problem if I don't have to..

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: F6F6Dodge] #224407 02/14/09 03:06 PM 02/14/09 03:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,972 Grand Prairie,Texas stumpy I Win
stumpy I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,972 Grand Prairie,Texas	Why not start easy and install a mechinical temp gauge so you know whats really going on. Over heating won't burn out the temp gauge unless it is pegged for a while. As for puking water how full do you keep the radiator?.

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: F6F6Dodge] #224408 02/14/09 03:09 PM 02/14/09 03:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	You might go to a radiator shop & have them pump it up to 15lbs(when hot) & see if it holds & also them to suck some air thats above the coolant level up into the blue fluid with their kit & see if it changes color indicating a combustion leak. Shouldn't take too much time/money & it'd be far easier than tearing into the eng. But if your timing is not retarded it sounds from your last description that there "might" be something off kilter inside the eng but I'd for sure eliminate the airflow possibility & the stat 1st. What do your plugs look like. I'd say an improperly punched head gasket would be much less likely live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: RapidRobert] #224409 02/14/09 03:21 PM 02/14/09 03:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 126 Indiana F F6F6Dodge OP member
F6F6Dodge OP member F Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 126 Indiana	I did hook up a mechanical gauge and just kept it in the engine compartment by the battery...it was showing about 210-220 temp with the 160degree thermostat..which is better than the car was before.....I have been getting the temp down as I have tried different things, but now am at the point to where I don't know where to go next....I have the fluid level in the radiator just high enough to cover the very top row of the radiator core....should i go to the 180 degree thermostat next??

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: F6F6Dodge] #224410 02/14/09 03:28 PM 02/14/09 03:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,972 Grand Prairie,Texas stumpy I Win
stumpy I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,972 Grand Prairie,Texas	210-220 isn't really very hot. Most modern engines run at that termp. I would use a 180 stat but that will have nothing to do with higher temp. It just allows the engine to warm up to a correct operating temp quicker.

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: F6F6Dodge] #224411 02/14/09 03:29 PM 02/14/09 03:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: should i go to the 180 degree thermostat next?? no, anytime you are above the rated opening temp of the sat within 5 or 10 degrees the stat is out of the picture UNLESS it is only opening partly. thats why I suggested taking it out for(1) day to eliminate it as the problem but you do need a 180 or even a 195 in there for fast warmup & better vaporization. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: stumpy] #224412 02/14/09 03:39 PM 02/14/09 03:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 126 Indiana F F6F6Dodge OP member
F6F6Dodge OP member F Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 126 Indiana	I originally had a lean burn carb that some fool sold me without my knowledge of such...we rejetted it to be much richer burning and got the timing/ignition to where it needs to be...but it was still hoping to get the operating temp. down to the 190 range....does the mounting of the pusher fan matter??? or just anywhere in front of the radiator is fine??? also, do I need to get cold/fresh air to the carb??? versus the original type round ari cleaner 69's came with....also, I totally insulated the fuel line from the pump to the carb with the 2000 degree heat wrap.. to help keep the car from vapor locking..

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: F6F6Dodge] #224413 02/14/09 03:49 PM 02/14/09 03:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,972 Grand Prairie,Texas stumpy I Win
stumpy I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,972 Grand Prairie,Texas	Cold air into the carb isn't the problem. Cold air into the engine compartment is. The pusher fan may be blocking the radiator and causing more heat than help.

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: F6F6Dodge] #224414 02/14/09 03:51 PM 02/14/09 03:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: does the mounting of the pusher fan matter??? or just anywhere in front of the radiator is fine??? also, do I need to get cold/fresh air to the carb (1)anywhere in front (2)fresh air to carb is always a good idea but unrelated to what is going on here. You mentioned that it helped greatly when you added the pusher & since alot of them are inadequate & I dont know the frontal area arangement of a Daytona(I've never had/seen one ) is there anyway you can up the airflow thru the rad? Since just adding the inadequate pusher made a significant difference that points us to an airflow issue. Unless your fuel line is in close proximity to your exhaust(pipes or manifolds) somewhere along it's route the vapor lock is coming from the overheating problem & wont be cured until the overheating issue is cured. EDIT unless your crossover is open/functioning which(can) wreaks havoc with todays volatile gasoline in the carb bowl. Last edited by RapidRobert; 02/14/09 04:05 PM. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: RapidRobert] #224415 02/14/09 04:14 PM 02/14/09 04:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Just because it pukes coolant when you stop doesn't mean that it was over heating. this is the reason coolant reserve systems were used. When engine is turned off after being run for a period temperatures and pressures build because of heat saturation up to a point then begin cooling but in the mean time the coolant can be puked out. this is especially true if the radiator was over filled in the first place. In a non coolant reserve system the coolant level should be no high than the baffle seen in the radiator tank just below the filler neck or about 1 inch down.

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: MoparforLife] #224416 02/14/09 05:05 PM 02/14/09 05:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 126 Indiana F F6F6Dodge OP member
F6F6Dodge OP member F Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 126 Indiana	unless your crossover is open/functioning which(can) wreaks havoc with todays volatile gasoline in the carb bowl. I am not sure what you mean by crossover??? I replaced my intake pan gasket last year that has the heat intake runners(crossover) blocked off..is this what you mean??? So, basically what you all are saying is that I should go with a 180-195degree thermostat and regular volume water pump with just the big clutch fan..should do the job and keep my fluid lever down a bit in the radiator...

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: F6F6Dodge] #224417 02/14/09 05:44 PM 02/14/09 05:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: I replaced my intake pan gasket last year that has the heat intake runners(crossover) blocked off..is this what you mean??? So, basically what you all are saying is that I should go with a 180-195degree thermostat and regular volume water pump with just the big clutch fan..should do the job and keep my fluid lever down a bit in the radiator... (1) yes it is blocked (2)yes 180-195 (3) reg or hi vol wp is Ok to me (4) thermal clutch fans are the best but yes OK(spaced properly into the shroud) (5) with no recovery system fluid sometimes needs to be down a bit. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: RapidRobert] #224418 02/16/09 07:41 AM 02/16/09 07:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,688 Alexandria,La. B BigTerry master
BigTerry master B Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,688 Alexandria,La.	maybe there a airbubble in the system?

Re: overheating problem on 440 motor [Re: BigTerry] #224419 02/16/09 08:10 AM 02/16/09 08:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,468 Answering the call of the wild T ThermoQuad top fuel
ThermoQuad top fuel T Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,468 Answering the call of the wild	Whoa!!!before ripping things apart!!!! The car is not, I repeat IS NOT overheating at 210 degrees. Actually it is ok to run at 210. You should be running a 195 degree thermostat. Today's fuels require it, it is not 1969 anymore toto... Things to check: Timing, airflow Radiator cap-put a mopar cap on there 15lb or so Manifold heat control valve-is it stuck closed??? Coolant mixture:60% distilled water and 40% antifreeze along with a bottle of water wetter What brand of water pump???

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