I agree. I don't have any more points distributors but I remember one thing. When you were out on the road and the ignition quit, you could clean the points with a matchbook. If the condenser shorted, you could just remove it. In both cases you at least made it home. Oh, the good old days.

AAAHHHHH the good old days...horsesh!t. Hindsight through rose colored glasses.

As early as 1963, racers were turning to electronics to make the points more reliable.

Yeah, setting the points on a Mopar smallblock was a real joy, digging around in the back of the engine compartment of those physically large cars and trucks. At least the GM cars had points adjustable from the outside with a hex driver. But not the Chrysler products. And trying to tighten a screw while keeping the adjustment correct? It's a good thing the points were pretty forgiving on setting.

As poorboy said so well, there were a lot of things that could go wrong with points. I had two different cars fail on me because the upper bushing in the distributor was so worn that it would let the points stay closed most of the time. And that's not including the points themselves, which could fail in a few interesting ways.

But not all was bad...the stock points served as a rev limiter, floating at about 5500 rpm.
If valve float didn't get you, point float would. So you bought a set of Accel high spring tension points and now either the rubbing block or the distributor cam would wear. And in an attempt to gain an extra few degrees of dwell, racers used dual point setups. Now instead of one set of points to adjust, you had two all squished together into the same size distributor housing. When's the last time you even thought about dwell?

When I bought my Direct Connection breakerless ignition kit in 1984 it made my truck feel like it had just been tuned, and it did it every day. That system worked flawlessly until about 10 years ago when I replaced the orange box with an MSD6, and that $40 used box has worked ever since. I left the wiring and the orange box in place so it could be a backup, but I took it off the firewall this year, never used. In about half a million miles driven with electronic ignition I have had one failure, a module in my Suburban.

So trot out those old warhorse worries about dependability and ease of use, but just watch out for the excrement they leave behind!

R.

I agree, I still have points in three of my cars and the only problem I've had in the last twelve years was a failed condenser in my 1971 Chrysler. I put about 1000 to 1500 miles on each car a year have not had to touch the points in my Newport or Charger in the last nine years and I haven't even changed the points in my slant six Barracude yet that I bought eight years ago. I have cars with electronic ignition also, have nothing against electronic ignition but I see no reason to update the point cars. If I was driving them 15000 miles a year then electronic might be my choice for routine maintenance reasons.

Yup points are going in my 68 R/R 440 project. Was pulling a hill in my 70 Charger some where in between Reno and Vegas many moons ago and it started to loose power. Pulled over and found the points closed up. Short work with a Swiss army knife and a matchbook cover and back on the road. I did put a MP electronic in later but never felt any gains or losses in performance. May do the same with the R/R later on. Can you still get that from MP any more??

This. A few years back Mallory and Accel were still making points for Mopar distributors (I bought a set in 2011) but no more. All you can get is standard/blue streak stuff which is probably going to bounce over 5K

I'm adding to this original thread because I was wrong about the breaker point ignition system. After racking up 10,000 miles on my 1963 Fury, 318 poly powered, more door hardtop and averaging a whopping 11.5 mpg, I decided to replace the breaker points with a Pertronix system over the weekend. I purchased the Ignitor III and the matching Flamethrower III coil and hooked everything up exactly as instructed including removing the ballast resistor to accommodate for the new 0.32 ohm coil. WOW! I drove it 18 miles one way to work this morning and cannot believe the difference in power. I'm using half the throttle pedal to go the same speed. I haven't checked miles per gallon but I am pretty sure it must have improved to at least 15-16 mpg. I didn't want to change too many things at once and not know which one(s) made the improvement. This package was clearly the best $180 I've ever spent. Again. My accolades for the point system made sense when I said them because I simply didn't know better. I thought the car ran great and that the performance was normal and expected. I was wrong.

So, I'm thinking the next change to install a set of E3 spark plugs. Have any of you installed a set of E3s and seen performance gains? No gains? Not worth it?

You kept everything timing related the same? I have a P 111 system uninstalled as of yet.

Yes, RapidRobert. Timing is the same as before of 8 deg advance at idle. I did also discover that the vacuum advance module was toast and leaking, so I blocked off that vacuum port from the carburetor until I can pick up and install the new module tomorrow night. Even without the vacuum advance, I'm surprised at how much stronger the car accelerates from a stop. And, with the points ignition, I could reach in the car and cold start without touching the accelerator. The car behaved as though it was tuned perfectly.

Well, I installed a Pertronix III on my new build restoration of my 70 Charger because the Mopar ECU system has left me stranded before and an MSD just does not fit in my plan of looking all stock. The car would not start. I installed the OEM point dist to get it running and a few bugs worked out. They sent me a brand new one so we will see.

I'm thinking plugging the vac leak is accounting for most of the gain. You're sayin points started much easier? On my P 111 setting on my kitchen table there is alot of slop between the 2 sections, where the round black piece in the center connects the 2 plates where they rotate. I gotta measure that & give em a call to see if it that (amt) is acceptable.

Fastmark, you did match the Ignitor III up with a low ohm coil when you tried it? Well either way, starting with a broken new thing sucks every time. Also, what's a little 'hokey' about this set up is getting the ground strap and wires just the right length under the cap; long enough to minimize resistance against the vacuum advance plate movement and short enough not to interfere with the rotor or the old point cam now referred to as the reluctor.

For the record, I DO NOT work for Pertronix. And, if I don't stop trolling this thread while at my current job, I might end up having to send Pertronix a resume since they are only another 10-12 miles away.

I'll give you a (good) reference

Yes. I used the correct coil they called for and I ran my ground wire inside the cap as well. I even tried a direct wire from the battery like the trouble shooting guide advised. I had power to both sides of the coil but it would not pulse when you turned the motor over.

Myself, I'm an old fart that grew up with points. I ran the mallory 4 lobe dual points, accel, and other offerings etc. Back in the Mid 70's my mentor kept pushing me to convert over to electronic and I being young and knowing everything resisted. I came upon a conversion kit through some trading and decided to try it just to see for myself. I was quite amazed at the difference. Quicker starting, smoother running, etc. Did it make 5 or 10 HP difference ?? Don't know but the difference was definitely noticeable.
As far as reliability anything electronic is capable of failing without notice Including points systems. We had a 50 Chrysler towed in last month that just quit while the owner was driving it. A quick diagnosis revealed the condenser went bad.
In closing I am a proponent of electronic and lean towards using factory type conversions when possible due to the availability of replacement components should they be needed

So, the vacuum advance crapped out, and gave you a vacuum leak, and the points and plugs had 10,000 miles on them, and the new Pertronix system and a new coil made a huge difference in the performance and gas mileage? I sure hope so! Any tune up, coupled with stopping the vacuum leak, would have made a huge difference in both performance and gas mileage. Wait until you replace the non functioning vacuum advance, another increase in gas mileage is probably in the works.

The reality is a set of the good old points were worth 10,000 miles, and a few even went longer then that. How much the performance drops off over those 10,000 or more miles is hard to determine. At any rate, spark plugs on a point ignition system are pretty shot by 10,000 miles, and by 12,000-14,000 miles with an electronic ignition. The sad fact is most point ignition cars were grossly out of tune by the time most owners took the cars in to be tuned up. Yours was.

The electronic ignition simply replaces the points. That's all, nothing else. By replacing the points, the electronic ignition system remove the largest single wear item in the ignition system (the points themselves), and actually increased the spark plug life, which is the 2nd weakest link in the ignition system. For the record, when the electronic fuel injection came on board, the 3rd biggest issue in the ignition system was eliminated, the carburetor. Plug life was again extended with the consistency of the EFI over the carb.

Between 1972 and 1980, I worked as the tune up guy in the largest auto repair service station in our town. I did a lot of tune ups and carb rebuilds. I could set a set of points to proper dwell without needing to measure the gap with feeler gauges. I was around when all the "aftermarket" Pertronix and other systems were the rage. I swapped out points in many dual point dist as well. I was there when all the factories began installing electronic ignitions. I'm the guy that first informed GM their HEI distributors could burn through the rotors when their new system was less then 3 months old. I had several personal phone conversions with the GM trouble shooting guys in Detroit. The 73 Chevy 1 ton (privet carrier, US Mail) was the first HEI vehicle in our town, and it died on the road and was towed into our shop about 2 1/2 months old, with around 13,500 miles on it.

Nothing wrong with points ignition systems if you keep up with them. If your a put them in and forget it kind of person, or if you driving more then 10,000 miles a year, you will be much more happy with some kind of electronic ignition, yes, all of them can have issues at some time, so can points systems. Most electronic ignition systems that have been on the market a few years are probably good. Gene

Poorboy, I'm just as old, err, ummm, experienced as you when it comes to working on cars. Also grew up working in a garage setting point gap/dwell by sight and feel rather than gages.

I can't put enough detail in this thread. Those points didn't degrade over 10K miles. I keep a log of every gallon of gas and every mile driven. Since the points were new, they performed exactly the same for the entire 10K miles. After 10K miles driven, I could reach in the window on a cold engine and the car would start and idle after 2 cranks; with a leaking vacuum module. I check mpg every fill up and I always fill up. I was getting 11-12 mpg regularly from tank to tank. I managed 13 mpg on a 100 mile, all freeway trip. Once. I changed the vacuum advance module tonight. A slight improvement off the line but I expected much more improvement, to your point (pun intended) Poorboy.

The plugs, wires, cap, and rotor have way more than 10K miles. They are the same components that were in it when I dragged it home. They are the same plugs before and after the Pertronix install. Heck. I don't even know what brand they are.

I filled up tonight and this is the first full tank since the Pertronix install. I'll post my mpg on this tank after the next fill up.

I'd rather keep a spare factory type ECU, coil, ballast, AND distributor in my car then deal with setting points on the side of the road. I don't miss the days of crawling over and laying on top of a hot small block, or between the fenderwell and side of a slant 6, just to get back/down there and mess with changing the point gap by a couple thousandths just to get the dwell right, and THEN set the timing...with an electronic distributor I could mark the distributor and block, yank it, set the spare to the same marks and be running again and be reasonably assured the timing would be good enough even for a 200 mile trip til I could get home to throw a timing light on it. Besides, if anything failed usually it was the ballast or rarely an ECU - 2 minutes with a screwdriver or wrench, or less.
Some things just ain't worth the hassle any more. Heck, not even my lawn mower engines have points any more...

I can count the number of times I needed to set my points on the side of the road on my ....

nothing.

Because I never had to do that. And I've driven dozens of points vehicles from many manufacturers many, many miles.

I've also never has an ECU go back. Coil, yes. VR, yes.

i went from ecu to mallory dual point distributor this past year,i do not drive car that much,but when i do i have had no problem with performance,points are not difficult to install even if you had to replace some.points is all we had back in 60 era when these cars was new,i think they ran pretty well then too.classic industries still sell those dual points distributors brand new from mallory and points for them also.

I went with a Firecore Distributor. Beautiful thing. No ECU. Just bypass the blast resistor to get the distributor 12 volts, hook it to your coil... It was pretty dang simple and the tolerances on that baby are TIGHT! no wobble whatsoever in the shaft. I got that distributor on the urging of friends here and look forward to firing her up.

If anyone wants my unused MP electronic distributor and orange box, I'll give you a deal. Why use 30 year old technology even when you go electronic?