How much do rims flex? Do you care? OEM steelies vs alloy..
#2176986
10/17/16 03:47 PM
10/17/16 03:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538 Albany, NY
67SATisfaction
OP
The member whose name is actually Art
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OP
The member whose name is actually Art
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
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I'm curious if anyone here selects their rims for stiffness, and if so are steelies any less stiff than alloys?
My '65 Satellite runs steelies and I discovered accidentally they flex a little. I never thought about it before. Last summer I heard this weird squeaking sound every time I turned a hard right and after weeks of head scratching investigation, I traced it to one hubcap with one set of teeth that weren't grabbing tightly on the rim - and the teeth would squeak on the steel rim edge in corners.
So is "rim flex" an issue for any of you when auto crossing or track racing?
BACKGROUND: I'm currently using 14x6.5inch Ford steel rims to allow slightly wider 14x7 tires on rims that still take the OEM 14" hubcaps (not poverty caps) for a factory stock look.
I am considering departing from the stock look and go with 15+ diameter rims to accommodate disc brakes for improved safety and performance and eventually take the car to a track day. Question is what to go with - 15in steelies are inexpensive, but are they really any good? Larger 16-17" would be even better, and then I'd might as well go with alloys. I think.
Thanks, - Art
65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76 67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23 67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd 82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle 75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
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Re: How much do rims flex? Do you care? OEM steelies vs alloy..
[Re: 67SATisfaction]
#2177117
10/17/16 06:57 PM
10/17/16 06:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Only time I ever ran into a hubcap squeak issue was when the Dodge dealer so over tightened the lug nuts on my MIL's Colt that my Impact gun would not remove them. They even managed to stretch the thread on the lugs and the nuts, all of them, on each corner. I suspect they flexed the rims too.
So I simply bent the springy fingers out more and no more squeaks.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: How much do rims flex? Do you care? OEM steelies vs alloy..
[Re: 67SATisfaction]
#2177542
10/18/16 10:25 AM
10/18/16 10:25 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,396 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,396
north of coder
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just curious. how much [if any] did you have to remove from the center register hole on the ford rim to fit over the axle hub ? what year and model did the ford rim come from ? i have found over the years that while the ford rim has the same 5 on 4 1/2" bolt pattern, the center hub register hole is smaller than the hub register on the mopar axle and front hub, thus requiring the center hole to need opened up to fit. the mopar wheel, however, has a larger center hole than the ford, requiring no mods to bolt up and use in ford applications. the center bumps are also larger on the ford wheel if you want to use dog dish caps of the later [smaller, 68 on i think] diameter. i think the ford bumps are close, if not the same location as the 62-66 or so larger dog dish caps, but i have never checked to see if those caps fit the ford wheels. as supercuda said, i have also just bent the retaining tangs outward to quiet the squeeky wheel cover or trim ring when needed. late cop wheels are heavier than the standard steel wheels of that era, made from thicker material to take extra abuse from pot holes and curbs, and yes, they flex less than the standard wheel as well.
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Re: How much do rims flex? Do you care? OEM steelies vs alloy..
[Re: moparx]
#2177550
10/18/16 10:45 AM
10/18/16 10:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538 Albany, NY
67SATisfaction
OP
The member whose name is actually Art
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OP
The member whose name is actually Art
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
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just curious. how much [if any] did you have to remove from the center register hole on the ford rim to fit over the axle hub ? ... I had to remove some material with a hand file for the rims to fit over the Mopar center register. IIRC the front rims fit easier with less material removed. On the rears I definitely removed more material for the center register to get them on. I don't recall the year(s) my Ford rims came from. the center bumps are also larger on the ford wheel if you want to use dog dish caps of the later [smaller, 68 on i think] diameter. i think the ford bumps are close, if not the same location as the 62-66 or so larger dog dish caps, but i have never checked to see if those caps fit the ford wheels. I haven't tried them either. I'm not using dog dish. My goal with the Ford rims was to enable me using the full 14in "spinner" style hubcaps that were stock for '65 Satellites, with 7" wide tires. For dog dish I would have just bought new Chrysler OEM style 15x7's steelies from Summit. as supercuda said, i have also just bent the retaining tangs outward to quiet the squeeky wheel cover or trim ring when needed. Yes, this worked for me too, and the squeak went away. late cop wheels are heavier than the standard steel wheels of that era, made from thicker material to take extra abuse from pot holes and curbs, and yes, they flex less than the standard wheel as well. So I think the answer to my question whether flex actually matters on a steel vs alloy rim is.. "Meh"... - Art
65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76 67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23 67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd 82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle 75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
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Re: How much do rims flex? Do you care? OEM steelies vs alloy..
[Re: 67SATisfaction]
#2177755
10/18/16 04:00 PM
10/18/16 04:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442 NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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67 -- The factory steel RALLEY rims do flex.. and can break at the center section where they make their radius bend coming out... where the center cap would meet with it. I believe that was a factory design fault... not truly tested under hard/sever cornering loads, such as suing soft-compound tires, or similar "drifting" sideways. It happened to one of rear rims a long time ago. Since then, I would never again use those specific MOPAR RALLEY rims for autrocross, etc. street/hwy driving is OK as long as you don't push hard in the corners... repeatedly... they will flex and eventually break.
On the other hand, cop-car style rims (15x7, 15x8 Super Coupe) are probably a better steel rim to endure cornering.
Last edited by Mopar Mitch; 10/18/16 04:01 PM.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: How much do rims flex? Do you care? OEM steelies vs alloy..
[Re: 67SATisfaction]
#2200193
11/21/16 09:30 PM
11/21/16 09:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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"I'm curious if anyone here selects their rims for stiffness, and if so are steelies any less stiff than alloys? "
Its a good not yet well answered question, IMO. We seem to bend over backwards to reduce deflection elsewhere, when there is almost zero data to justify or quantify the problem elsewhere in our suspensions, my favorites are 11/16" TR and LCA bottom gusset plates. At a Ron Sutton track toy day long seminar in Ohio last year I attended, there was at one point he a panel of experts/vendors spoke about various pertinent suspension items, that included a wheel manufacturer. They stated wheel deflection is real and an issue, but not in their wheels. I asked them, and this point dovetails with another pissing match thread on this forum, how does brake induced heat effect the stiffness of their alum wheels, since at 200-300F alum loses a considerable amount of its strength compared to steel, and would say a heat barrier coating be advised to retain this stiffness they first mentioned?. They scratched their heads. Bottom line, if an alum wheel is flexing, it will be only a matter of time before it cracks. I do believe however elevated temps, lessons that propensity to crack.
Edit, if the amount of bending does not increase, but if the load is the same, the strength will be less, the bending amount will increase, and cracking issues return.
Last edited by jcc; 11/21/16 09:40 PM.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: How much do rims flex? Do you care? OEM steelies vs alloy..
[Re: 67SATisfaction]
#2200357
11/22/16 01:28 AM
11/22/16 01:28 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678 Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
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When my son was autocrossing his '67 Barracuda we encountered this problem. The car was initially built retaining small bolt pattern and Kelsey-Hayes discs up front. When we started running Nascar slicks we had to make up some 15x10 small bolt rims. After a few events he was out on a run when we heard a rotational grinding/clicking. One center had cracked, but not at a lug.
At that point in time we swapped to big bolt and picked up two Pete Paulsen circle track 15x10s with custom offset. We took two of the small bolt wheels and swapped centers with some 14" rallye centers. Never had another wheel problem. We still have the Paulsen rims, but sold the others.
Last edited by Jim_Lusk; 11/22/16 01:29 AM.
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Re: How much do rims flex? Do you care? OEM steelies vs alloy..
[Re: Skeptic]
#2200373
11/22/16 01:40 AM
11/22/16 01:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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I watched first 9? mins of a 16 min video Mustang vs Camaro Head to Head. Not sure what I am looking for. I see tire deflection but this not the topic here. Don't see how with the naked eye I could observe any wheel deflection on a street driven car that wiuld mean much, and I saw none. If you have a specific video/time frame to indicate something, post it.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: How much do rims flex? Do you care? OEM steelies vs alloy..
[Re: 67SATisfaction]
#2200568
11/22/16 03:43 PM
11/22/16 03:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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I have cast aluminum wheels that are maybe 1/16" away from the calipers and they have never so much as scuffed.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: How much do rims flex? Do you care? OEM steelies vs alloy..
[Re: 67SATisfaction]
#2200679
11/22/16 06:37 PM
11/22/16 06:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 200 Colorado
Bob J
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 200
Colorado
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Porsche 911 Turbo with 600+ HP and -3.5 camber F and R and needs to hit 1.5 G or better. HRE or Champion aluminum wheels, not cheap but light and strong. I would say the next down the line behind billet wheels are the ones that are spun when they are cast.
07 Porsche C2 997.1 6spd DD and SCCA Solo II SS 68 Plymouth GTX Convert. 493cu Hotkiss Wilwood Classic air, Building for Solo II Cam 65 Chrysler 300 Convert. project 57 Desoto 2dr. Firesweep 392 Hemi,Wilwood Project with son 2003 Dodge Dakota R/T "DEAD"
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Re: How much do rims flex? Do you care? OEM steelies vs alloy..
[Re: 67SATisfaction]
#2200711
11/22/16 07:38 PM
11/22/16 07:38 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432 NorCal
RylisPro
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
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I love black wheels. They look so much better than any other finish. It is also more difficult to see micro cracks when the aluminum spokes develop them from track days. Don't buy black wheels haha!
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