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70 Cuda upgrade #2165382
09/30/16 08:47 PM
09/30/16 08:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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cataclysm80 Offline OP
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cataclysm80  Offline OP
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I've been working on my 70 Cuda.

Firm Feel Stage 3 Power Steering Box
Firm Feel Sector Support
Idler Arm Roller Bearing upgrade
Firm Feel Tubular Upper Control Arms with offset bushings for more Caster.

Getting an alignment in the morning.
Aiming for
-.7 degrees Camber
+7 degrees Caster
1/8 inch total Toe In, which should be .14 degrees on each wheel for me.
(tire size 235/60/15, 25.25 measured diameter)
https://robrobinette.com/ConvertToeInchesToDegrees.htm


Not a daily driver, it's a fun street car with occasional long distance road trips, no track time.


Does that sound good? Thoughts?

Tav

Re: 70 Cuda upgrade [Re: cataclysm80] #2165432
09/30/16 10:02 PM
09/30/16 10:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
mopardamo Offline
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mopardamo  Offline
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St. Louis, MO
Are you just planning on front end upgrades?
Think I'd add some bigger T-bars and great shocks all around.
What about a fiberglass rear spring and some brakes?

Damon

Re: 70 Cuda upgrade [Re: mopardamo] #2166113
10/01/16 09:04 PM
10/01/16 09:04 PM
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ahy Offline
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Sounds like a nice upgrade. Alignment specs should noticeably improve bite and feel... along with the better box.

Please post how the alignment turns out and how it drives "after".

Re: 70 Cuda upgrade [Re: ahy] #2194174
11/10/16 07:38 PM
11/10/16 07:38 PM
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Florida
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cataclysm80 Offline OP
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The alignment tech was reluctant to go all the way to the specs I posted above due to concerns about tire wear.
(personally, I think it probably would have been ok, as I've heard of people pushing -.9 camber & +8 caster)
I don't have the exact specs we ended up with in front of me at the moment, but I think they were close to -.5 camber & +5 caster.
I was able to sit in the car while it was on the alignment rack, and it was really interesting to see just how much the alignment specs changed with 0 people, 1 person, or 2 people in the car. It makes a Big difference!
Driven as a regular car, sometimes I have a passenger, and sometimes I don't.
The tech also put in a small side to side adjustment difference for road crown. (your local tech will have an idea how much road crown your local roads typically have)

Took it on a road trip from central Florida to the top of the Rocky Mountains and back.
It drives great, I love it. significant improvement.
Much more similar to steering on a new car.

You really can't see the tubular upper control arms once they are installed. I tried looking around the tire in the wheel well and couldn't see them. (note: my tires were straight forward in typical parking position when I looked, maybe you'd be able to see the upper control arms if you had the wheels turned all the way in one direction.)
Unless your looking up from below the car (or have mirrors under the car), no one will ever see the tubular upper control arms, so no worries about the car not looking original.

Now I plan to upgrade my Roadrunner & eventually my Challenger.
With just the offset bushings you could probably get to +3 caster and be adjusted all the way in that direction, but with the tubular upper control arms With the offset bushings, +5 caster is easy, and you should be able to get +7 before running out of adjustment.



For brakes, I have factory sized power disc brakes (10 inch I think?) on the front, with 11 inch drums on the rear. I've been happy with that so far and probably won't bother to change it, but I think I'll run 11.75 disc with 11 drum on the Roadrunner & Challenger.

For springs, I have factory leafs (it's a real 'Cuda, not a Barracuda), and the factory torsion bars, which are .9 diameter.
I'm running KYB shocks.

I weighed the car, and it was 3,763 total (without any people), and 2,033 on just the front tires.
I think most people would say that's a heavy car for an E body. (air conditioning, cruise control, lots of undercoating, full size spare tire, etc)
That weight distribution is 54% front and 46% rear though, which is a nice balance.

I do think that larger torsion bars and stepping up to an adjustable shock of some kind would be a worthwhile upgrade.
I'm not sure what the spring rate is on my factory leaf springs, but I'd like to check, and compare that to the rear weight of the car (1730 lbs), and then use the front weight of the car (2033 lbs) to get some idea of what torsion bars would pair best with the stock leaf springs for handling (drag racing is different). I suspect that 1.06 diameter torsion bars from Firm Feel would be about right, but I haven't done the math yet. Difficult to say until I know what my rear spring rate is.

Tav

Re: 70 Cuda upgrade [Re: cataclysm80] #2194590
11/11/16 09:25 AM
11/11/16 09:25 AM
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ahy Offline
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Sounds like you wound up with good alignment specs and most importantly it drives well. Agree you could push the negative camber a little (?-.75) w/o tire wear problems but you are close and it drives well so no hurry.

It would help to find a safe place to push the car to its limits to see how it does and guide future improvements.

As far as rear springs, there are a number of posts on this. From memory, stock E springs are ~120 lb/in and XHD are ~140 lb/in. I run XHD with one full leaf added which comes out to ~170 lb/in. Combined with 1" front bars it seems pretty balanced with my combo. Bigger front bars and better shocks will be my next upgrade.

Lots of views on T bar size. A range of 1.00" to 1.12" seems to be the sweet spot and a beefed front sway bar is an important part of the setup. Going over 1" needs higher end shocks for both comfort and performance. The rear sway bar maybe/maybe not.

I don't remember if you have installed frame connectors. These help in general and especially as spring rates are increased. If the chassis is flexing the stiffer springs don't help as much and flex is really hard on the chassis and body.

As far as brakes, it depends a lot on how you will use the car. For street driving a well set up factory disc/drum arrangement should be fine. If you push it hard on a track, you will find the brake limits pretty fast. There is nothing quite like the smell of burning brake material.

Re: 70 Cuda upgrade [Re: cataclysm80] #2194801
11/11/16 03:11 PM
11/11/16 03:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
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Long Island, NY USA
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BergmanAutoCraft Offline
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Long Island, NY USA
I agree with your alignment tech. I've experimented with all kinds of caster angles up to 10 degrees on the road course. I don't like the feel of the inside of the car lifting when using a high caster value. It produces a very unsettling feeling going into a turn. I run approx. 4 degrees.

Secondly, I sell and have the Borgeson steering boxes because the feel is way more precise than the factory box.

Just my .02.







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