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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: sgcuda]
#2130424
08/11/16 05:11 PM
08/11/16 05:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Mr P: Planning on putting a 12 point C/M cage on top of my frame. Will probably add a funny car cage to cert to 7.50's. By then, I hope to have the hydraulic setup.
Monte: I appreciate the concerns and inputs. Yes, I'm starting smalltime, but plan on growing as my desires and demands increase. I can't honestly say how hard or easy this is going to be. But I'm not afraid to try and I will figure it out soon enough. I've built engines in my bedroom, transmissions on the kitchen table. I backhalved my car while still on the trailer. I built the whole frame and set up the body to be bolt on with no physical help at all. You just got done saying you've built plenty of cars with a hand bender. Let me have this experience, I'm sure I will enjoy it, regardless of effort needed. Since the main hoop is the first thing you bend you will figure out right away if you want the hyd unit or not... plus those are the biggest bends (degrees) in most cars... also what radius will you buy... MOST of my bends I used a 6" and a few 4" but very few.... the biggest thing on bending is where the tangent is when you start the bend.. if you screw up a bit early in the bend you can move it... so check each bend after you start to make sure its right... when I was working in the exhaust lab I learned a ton bending every day.. 35 years of that stuff(along with fuel lines) since the lab was fuel & exhaust.... have fun with it and take your time... also... I would rather sneak up on a bend then over bending.. yes you can bend it back a few degrees but it can be a PITA.. specially moly EDIT For a 7.50 cert. buy the SFI cert book.. I think its $35 
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 08/11/16 05:13 PM.
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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: sgcuda]
#2130645
08/11/16 10:01 PM
08/11/16 10:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
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Mr P. Already got the SFI book. Frame is done to spec for 7.50. I've been watching several youtube videos on bending techniques, including how to determine material length in a bend and making some cheater bars for measuring out between bends. Just like anything else, practice is key. I already have an idea of how many times I am going to redo my door bars to fit right due to multiple angles on a 3D plane. I might make some test ones from pipe from Lowes, before I commit to chrome moly.
[image][/image]
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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: sgcuda]
#2130714
08/11/16 11:15 PM
08/11/16 11:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 368
michigan
turbo toad
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 368
michigan
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Anyone have any experience using a http://www.cagegage.com/ i think two of these would make life easier
Check out my build on Facebook Ttoad Hurley its updated regularly
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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: turbo toad]
#2130764
08/12/16 12:01 AM
08/12/16 12:01 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I did the same thing with the 90* bend... works well... just make sure which end you start with... the live end or the dead end
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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: sgcuda]
#2130769
08/12/16 12:05 AM
08/12/16 12:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,038
MN
JERICOGTX
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,038
MN
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I use a 90* bend piece all the time. The pirate4x4 site talks all about this.
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: sgcuda]
#2130772
08/12/16 12:06 AM
08/12/16 12:06 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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I use a piece of 1/4" solid about 5ft long as a template for the real thing.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: sgcuda]
#2130792
08/12/16 12:31 AM
08/12/16 12:31 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,611
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,611
Fulton County, PA
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I have an assortment of test bends in sizes larger than 1". 90s, 45s and 30s with start of bend and length of bend marked on it and a couple inches of straight left on each side of the bend. There's always pieces of drop or mistakes around that they can made from. Helps to plan hoops and other pieces to get the fit I want. I don't think Loews or anyplace like that sell what you want to use. Pipe and tubing are two different things, both size and material wise.
Cage Gage looks like a nice tool. I've always just used a protractor. I have a variety of those in different sizes and configurations. Typically I'll pull it to within a degree or 2, check it and then just touch it up to get it exactly where I want it. Might take a couple of test fits but that's better than trying to pull a few degrees out of 1.625 4130.
Last edited by CMcAllister; 08/12/16 12:38 AM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: sgcuda]
#2130807
08/12/16 12:54 AM
08/12/16 12:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
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Typically I'll pull it to within a degree or 2, check it and then just touch it up to get it exactly where I want it. Might take a couple of test fits but that's better than trying to pull a few degrees out of 1.625 4130.
That sounds like the safest bet. I don't see myself taking some bend out of C/M. That stuff is pretty stout.
What do you guys use for hole saw blades when making notches? I tried cutting some C/M with my sawzall using DeWalt blades. Killed 3 new blades within seconds and barely touched the tubing. Ended up using a cutting wheel on my 4" grinder to cut the tubing. Normally cut to length with my chop saw, fishmouthed on my bench grinder.
[image][/image]
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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: sgcuda]
#2130829
08/12/16 01:27 AM
08/12/16 01:27 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,611
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,611
Fulton County, PA
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Any decent bi-metal hole saw will work. But they won't last forever in 4130. Milwaukee, Lenox, Blu-Mol. Chinese stuff is useless. I use a variable speed 1/2 drill that maxes at 600 RPM. Speed and rate of feed is the trick, especially at angles that are not 90. If you are using too much pressure when the saw breaks through the wall of the tube, it will snag and clean the teeth off, especially when you get around to a 30 or 45 degree cut. Just let the saw cut, back off on the pressure, especially in the middle part of the cut where you're just in the thin tubing wall. A saw with 1 or 2 teeth off of it will still cut if you are using light pressure. Takes practice.
Sawzall instead of a chop saw? Milwaukee or Lenox, maybe 18 or 24 TPI. Buy several packs, they don't last forever in 4130.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: sgcuda]
#2130900
08/12/16 09:00 AM
08/12/16 09:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
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Thanks for the tips/advice. I should probably be writing all of this down in a book, but then, I would probably not be able to find the book the day I start all of this.
Monte: The angles I'm referring to is not only the downward bends but also allowing for going from the narrow roof area, to the wider area at dashboard level, then slightly narrower down at the frame. Maybe I'll just make it perpendicular from dash level to frame. I can see where a halo bar would allow for easier tube construction, now. But I like the full door bar design better.
CMcAllister: I used the Sawzall on some tubing that was already welded in place. Didn't work at all. Was using DeWalt 18T bimetal blades. Tooth the teeth off faster than I could change the blades. That's why I was asking about the holesaw. I might have attacked the tubing with too fast a rate of speed, like you mentioned. Will try some practice cuts with some 24T blades.
[image][/image]
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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: sgcuda]
#2130943
08/12/16 11:00 AM
08/12/16 11:00 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I used Milwaukee hole saws in my notcher.. also for degrees I got this big yellow protractor from HF... fit perfect on the center and when the tube started to bend I would zero it then
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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2130995
08/12/16 12:13 PM
08/12/16 12:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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I used Milwaukee hole saws in my notcher.. also for degrees I got this big yellow protractor from HF... fit perfect on the center and when the tube started to bend I would zero it then That's what it looks like! !!!
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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: sgcuda]
#2131004
08/12/16 12:23 PM
08/12/16 12:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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For a test pattern I use electrical conduit. Very cheap and easy to bend/test fit in the car if you have odd /complex shapes.
On symmetrical parts like a hoop, start at the center and move out.
If you are ever using seamed tubing in your bender, put the seam on the center of the inside radius.
Use one piece hole saws. Hole saws with separate mandrels wiggle and distort and will not last long.
I use hole saws in my milling machine for notching tubing. If you have that luxury, try using it. You can use the same hole saws for what seems like forever, because with solid mounting, and auto feed, the hole saws don't take a beating.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: sgcuda]
#2131014
08/12/16 12:32 PM
08/12/16 12:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Thanks for the tips/advice. I should probably be writing all of this down in a book, but then, I would probably not be able to find the book the day I start all of this.
Monte: The angles I'm referring to is not only the downward bends but also allowing for going from the narrow roof area, to the wider area at dashboard level, then slightly narrower down at the frame. Maybe I'll just make it perpendicular from dash level to frame. I can see where a halo bar would allow for easier tube construction, now. But I like the full door bar design better.
CMcAllister: I used the Sawzall on some tubing that was already welded in place. Didn't work at all. Was using DeWalt 18T bimetal blades. Tooth the teeth off faster than I could change the blades. That's why I was asking about the holesaw. I might have attacked the tubing with too fast a rate of speed, like you mentioned. Will try some practice cuts with some 24T blades. The bends you are talking about are not tough. First you need to know how much bend you need......that's easy and then you need to see how much to roll it out. You figure the roll out by putting a protractor on a pillar and see how much it angles out. So lets say from vertical your A-pillar is laid out 10* at the bottom. You roll the tubing in the bender 10* and make next bend, not hard. But let me save you some time on the windshield bars. Don't worry about going from main hoop all the way to floor. Go to a dash bar and make the a pillar bars two pieces
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Re: Tubing benders
[Re: MattW]
#2131020
08/12/16 12:35 PM
08/12/16 12:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I used Milwaukee hole saws in my notcher.. also for degrees I got this big yellow protractor from HF... fit perfect on the center and when the tube started to bend I would zero it then That's what it looks like! !!! LOL... I assume you havent even assembled it yet
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