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Mopar mini starter, amp draw? #2123291
08/02/16 11:28 AM
08/02/16 11:28 AM
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Menomonee Falls
DemonDust Offline OP
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Does anyone know what the starter draws when cranking? I'm talking about the late 90s Magnum starter.

I remember reading an old article somewhere that they can draw like 350, but i think that was for a standard starter not a mini starter.


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Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: DemonDust] #2123378
08/02/16 01:23 PM
08/02/16 01:23 PM
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Thumperdart Offline
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No clue but works great and has for MANY years..........


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Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: DemonDust] #2123383
08/02/16 01:27 PM
08/02/16 01:27 PM
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Morrow, OH
markz528 Offline
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On my race car it pulls in the 200's. I measured it.


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
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Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: DemonDust] #2123573
08/02/16 06:38 PM
08/02/16 06:38 PM
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Menomonee Falls
DemonDust Offline OP
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Thanks I'm just trying to figure out how heavy the wiring needs to be for the run, without adding too much weight.


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Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: DemonDust] #2123605
08/02/16 07:32 PM
08/02/16 07:32 PM
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crackedback Offline
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The difference between a 16 foot section of 2ga and 2/0 wire is 3 pounds.

I'll take the weight penalty for a better voltage/amp path on that run every time.

Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: DemonDust] #2123608
08/02/16 07:38 PM
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Menomonee Falls
DemonDust Offline OP
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It's only 6'


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Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: crackedback] #2123614
08/02/16 07:44 PM
08/02/16 07:44 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Originally Posted By crackedback
The difference between a 16 foot section of 2ga and 2/0 wire is 3 pounds.

I'll take the weight penalty for a better voltage/amp path on that run every time.


Yep.... plus compression is another factor.. at 200a
he must have a few things going on... high compression,
longer run on the wire and a little smaller wire... 150a
is pretty normal... mine was 135a with the battery about
10' and a heavy gauge... cranking pressure was 190
wave

Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: DemonDust] #2123735
08/02/16 11:23 PM
08/02/16 11:23 PM
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Stanton Offline
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It depends on the load on the starter. The same starter will draw more amps on a high compression hemi than it will on a low compression v6.

Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: DemonDust] #2124383
08/03/16 10:29 PM
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I put a 200 amp fuse on mine, and it blew right away. Another fuse, another pop. Rewired directly after that. 200 plus, a whole bunch of amps.

Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: SportF] #2124526
08/04/16 12:40 AM
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I just installed a Power Master starter on my 496, my old starter was cranking the engine to slow and half the time would not fire my MSD. This starter spins the engine twice as fast! It draws 301 Amps at 10.41 volts. My battery is in the trunk and I use 00 gauge battery cable. Make sure your kill switch can handle the starter draw current if wired this way!


70 Dart 3400 496 New Best 6.15@110.37 660ft, 9.76@135 with a 1.34 60ft
Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: Wicked49670dart] #2124546
08/04/16 01:12 AM
08/04/16 01:12 AM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Originally Posted By Wicked49670dart

I just installed a Power Master starter on my 496, my old starter was cranking the engine to slow and half the time would not fire my MSD. This starter spins the engine twice as fast! It draws 301 Amps at 10.41 volts. My battery is in the trunk and I use 00 gauge battery cable. Make sure your kill switch can handle the starter draw current if wired this way!


Years ago when I worked at the dealership... at 350A
draw it was junk and got a new starter.. you must be
running some compression.... that was with the old
mopar big starter.... was your battery at 10.41 before
you started cranking or did it draw it down that hard
wave

Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: DemonDust] #2124590
08/04/16 02:14 AM
08/04/16 02:14 AM
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Monte_Smith Offline
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Battery cables, both on the hot and ground side is NOT the place you want to save weight. Put BIG cables on it, whether you think it needs them or not. Hot start problems 99% of the time are not dragging starters or weak batteries........it's the cables.

Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: DemonDust] #2124620
08/04/16 03:51 AM
08/04/16 03:51 AM
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383man Offline
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Like Mr-P-Body says when we had a starter drawing 350 amps it had problems. Of course racing high comp engines will draw more amps but I would still think 150 to 250 would be in the norm for a racing engine. Ron

Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: Monte_Smith] #2124628
08/04/16 04:42 AM
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crackedback Offline
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Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Battery cables, both on the hot and ground side is NOT the place you want to save weight. Put BIG cables on it, whether you think it needs them or not. Hot start problems 99% of the time are not dragging starters or weak batteries........it's the cables.


Agreed!

Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: DemonDust] #2124629
08/04/16 05:30 AM
08/04/16 05:30 AM
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Menomonee Falls
DemonDust Offline OP
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My buddy has some 16v batteries and charger he may give me for some work being done. If you're running a 16v system does the amperage drop? The only reason I ask is because 110 compared to 220 doing the same thing 220 will have less amps than the 110.

But then again were comparing AC to DC.


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Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: DemonDust] #2124733
08/04/16 12:02 PM
08/04/16 12:02 PM
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383man Offline
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Yes more volts in the same circuit needs less amps to flow if the ohms stays the same. Thats why the old 6 volt systems had larger battery cables. 6 volts needs more amps to get the same work out of the starter that 12 volts needs. It boils down the the old theory volts = amps X ohms. Ron

Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: 383man] #2124945
08/04/16 04:10 PM
08/04/16 04:10 PM
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Right idea, wrong formula. What you're talking about is power, measured in watts. volts X amps = watts (power) So for the same power, if volts goes up, amps goes down.

Power lost in the cables goes by the formula

watts = amps squared / ohms.

So you can see that by raising system voltage, you cut the losses in the power lines (cables). This is the same reason that long distance electric power transmission is done at very high voltages, like 500,000 volts.

Another factor is the resistance of the battery cables that increases as the wire temperature increases. And where do those wasted watts show up? Heat in the cables. Vicious circle.

What hasn't been mentioned yet is inrush current. When the starter is first powered up it may draw around twice the full load amps. This would be enough to pop a fast acting fuse or breaker that was sized for full load amps.

In conclusion, don't save money or weight on battery cables.

R.

Another plus of higher voltage is if you are running a conventional ignition system, points or Mopar breakerless, the coil works better with a higher voltage. With a CD ignition I think it doesn't matter.

Last edited by dogdays; 08/04/16 04:13 PM.
Re: Mopar mini starter, amp draw? [Re: dogdays] #2124988
08/04/16 05:01 PM
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383man Offline
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Originally Posted By dogdays
Right idea, wrong formula. What you're talking about is power, measured in watts. volts X amps = watts (power) So for the same power, if volts goes up, amps goes down.

Power lost in the cables goes by the formula

watts = amps squared / ohms.

So you can see that by raising system voltage, you cut the losses in the power lines (cables). This is the same reason that long distance electric power transmission is done at very high voltages, like 500,000 volts.

Another factor is the resistance of the battery cables that increases as the wire temperature increases. And where do those wasted watts show up? Heat in the cables. Vicious circle.

What hasn't been mentioned yet is inrush current. When the starter is first powered up it may draw around twice the full load amps. This would be enough to pop a fast acting fuse or breaker that was sized for full load amps.

In conclusion, don't save money or weight on battery cables.

R.

Another plus of higher voltage is if you are running a conventional ignition system, points or Mopar breakerless, the coil works better with a higher voltage. With a CD ignition I think it doesn't matter.




Yes you are right as I was thinking watts but using the electrical formula for electricity and not power.
If you double the voltage the amps will go up with the same resistance but as you said its working power as they went to 12 volts from 6 to get the same working power from the starter using less amps. Hence what you said the watts formula. They had to make change's in the starter also.
You are also right about the inrush amps or the initial hit which always takes more amps to get it moving and less once its moving. Myself I have never used any type of fuse in the main battery cable to the starter because they normally draw at least 150 to 250 amps and can go over 300 in the initial hit for a second or so. One of the reasons I use a Ford starter solenoid in my trunk with my trunk mounted battery is I ran my cable in the car under the carpet and I did not want my main battery cable hot at all times running under my carpet. So its only hot when cranking the eng. Ron

Last edited by 383man; 08/04/16 05:07 PM.






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