Re: Factory dyno engines
[Re: 493_DART]
#2114828
07/21/16 02:37 PM
07/21/16 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,380 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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Posts: 13,380
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Dulcich did a test in one of the Mopar Mags years ago w/ a stock 383 magnum and then a stock 440 magnum 4V. The 383 was about dead on 335 hp and the 440 was around 360 hp if I recall correctly. Seems like I remember a similar test w/ a hemi, but not 100% sure.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Factory dyno engines
[Re: 493_DART]
#2114909
07/21/16 04:29 PM
07/21/16 04:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,082 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Back then the factory dyno'd the engines without ant accessories being driven by the engine that would have robbed HP, that changed in the early 70's.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Factory dyno engines
[Re: JohnRR]
#2114995
07/21/16 06:14 PM
07/21/16 06:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
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Back then the factory dyno'd the engines without ant accessories being driven by the engine that would have robbed HP, that changed in the early 70's.
I don't see the magazines dyno testing engines with alternators, stock exhaust systems and air cleaners either so it should be a pretty fair test.
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Re: Factory dyno engines
[Re: 493_DART]
#2115013
07/21/16 06:37 PM
07/21/16 06:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,269 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 07/21/16 06:38 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Factory dyno engines
[Re: 493_DART]
#2115042
07/21/16 07:27 PM
07/21/16 07:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 418 NH, USA
toddinNH
Egghead
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Egghead
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NH, USA
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I was curious as to how close the advertised factory hp/tq ratings were back then
I think that these things are easy enough to find. Here is your list of factory HP ratings. Please note: The race Hemi was also rated at 425 HP. This should raise a few eyebrows. It may be that the advertised specs. were close to reality, as others have noted, these were gross HP ratings. Here is a good primer reagrding gross versus net HP ratings. Here is a cool paragraph from the page: "Gross output, which in the U.S. is typically measured using the methodology laid out in SAE standards J245 and J1996, is the output of a ‘bare’ engine running on a test stand with no engine-driven accessories (e.g., generator/alternator or oil pump), free-flowing exhaust headers with no mufflers, and optimal ignition timing. Gross ratings are also mathematically corrected for standard atmospheric conditions. In other words, gross output represents a particular engine’s maximum output under ideal conditions." Yes, the page is brand X centric, but the principles are sound.
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Re: Factory dyno engines
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2115501
07/22/16 02:10 PM
07/22/16 02:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 715 Central TEXAS!!!!
sr4440
super stock
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super stock
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Central TEXAS!!!!
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@ 5400 rpm it would of had 457 lbs ft of torque.
Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
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Re: Factory dyno engines
[Re: sr4440]
#2115527
07/22/16 02:45 PM
07/22/16 02:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,269 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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@ 5400 rpm it would of had 457 lbs ft of torque. Me thinks you are using theorys and formulas for your estimate, not real world expereinces The last 30 or more stock stroke 440 motors I've built and dyno tested with pump gas and less than 10.5 to 1 compression ratio all made more torque than HP. The cam, intake, carb size and headers all affect the motor and what it does and makes on HP and torque On all of the low compression Stroker pump gas B and RB motors I've tested had the same results with either iron or aluminum heads My first 400 pump gas iron 906 headed stroker six pak motor made 612 HP at 5500 RPM and 644 Ft lbs at 4500 RPM on California 91 octane pump swill It ran faster in the car at the track shifting it at or above 7000 RPM So much for the theory of shifting it at or slightly above peak HP
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 07/22/16 02:48 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Factory dyno engines
[Re: 493_DART]
#2115579
07/22/16 03:39 PM
07/22/16 03:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO
DrCharles
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West Plains, MO
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It made 470 HP at 5400 RPM and , if I'm remembering corrrectly still, also more torque than HP
@ 5400 rpm it would of had 457 lbs ft of torque.
Me thinks you are using theorys and formulas for your estimate, not real world expereinces Chill everyone. Cab didn't say at what RPM it made "more torque than HP". To me that just means it made 470 hp at some RPM, 5400, and (say) 500 ft-lb at some other, lower, RPM! The torque and hp numbers are always the same at 5252 RPM, incidentally
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Re: Factory dyno engines
[Re: 493_DART]
#2115603
07/22/16 04:01 PM
07/22/16 04:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,385 Az
69hemibeep
pro stock
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pro stock
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Az
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Apples and oranges This is a good read! I don't think they even took into account air density or pressure back then and it is my understanding the torque to horsepower parameters for dynos have changed twice since then. http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/page...=prod/prd64.htm
1969 Hemi Roadrunner 2nd owner
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Re: Factory dyno engines
[Re: toddinNH]
#2115608
07/22/16 04:10 PM
07/22/16 04:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,844 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
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[quote=493_DART]
[i]"Gross output, which in the U.S. is typically measured using the methodology laid out in SAE standards J245 and J1996, is the output of a ‘bare’ engine running on a test stand with no engine-driven accessories (e.g., generator/alternator or oil pump), . No OIL PUMP??? That's hard to believe! Can any body confirm this? Seems kinda difficult to do for all the different configurations back in the day...
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Re: Factory dyno engines
[Re: 69hemibeep]
#2115644
07/22/16 05:25 PM
07/22/16 05:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,213 Minn
SportF
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pro stock
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Ram Chargers had a guy that did the atmospheric calculations when they were testing. Although the car may have run slower in the afternoon, he could calculate that it was actually a better tune. He (I believe his name was Al) was at the Indy banquet last march at the trade show. Now, did they use data like this in the dyno rooms? Don't know, but the Ram Chargers would know.
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Re: Factory dyno engines
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#2115650
07/22/16 05:36 PM
07/22/16 05:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020 Pangaea
B5 Bee
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[quote=493_DART]
[i]"Gross output, which in the U.S. is typically measured using the methodology laid out in SAE standards J245 and J1996, is the output of a ‘bare’ engine running on a test stand with no engine-driven accessories (e.g., generator/alternator or oil pump), . No OIL PUMP??? That's hard to believe! Can any body confirm this? Seems kinda difficult to do for all the different configurations back in the day... No oil pump also means no need for oil and the windage it creates! I'm sure he meant WP.
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Re: Factory dyno engines
[Re: B5 Bee]
#2115665
07/22/16 06:00 PM
07/22/16 06:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Romeo MI
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In the old SAE standard there was NO accessorizes on the engine... that later changed to what the engine would normally have on it... alt, power steeriing and anything else... yes it did have a oil pump running.. I dont recall if the water pump was part of the old SAE standard... no fan either
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Re: Factory dyno engines
[Re: 493_DART]
#2115731
07/22/16 07:41 PM
07/22/16 07:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
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master
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Nebraska
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I think I remember a mag having Landy build a 70-71 426 Hemi as close to stock as possible to see what it would dyno. It either made 460,485 or 490hp. I think it was an old Car Craft and they compared the Ford Boss 429, LS6 454 and an Elephant all #'s matching resto engines.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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