Need help finding a gremlin
#2110967
07/16/16 03:02 AM
07/16/16 03:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517 pacific northwest
Stroker Scamp
OP
master
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OP
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Posts: 3,517
pacific northwest
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Ok I have been fighting an issue with what feels like the car is running out of fuel at wot, sounded sick running down track and popped once out of the exhaust Verified 6 psi all the way down track jetted up 2 sizes from 84 Sq to 86 Sq (car ran best et @84) timing at 34* had the heads re done springs checked good all filters clear, psi on pump verified with visual into a tank I am down 3 MPH in the 8th and 2 in the quarter thinking it has to be in the distr. or box or coil running msd distr, firecore wires, msd coil and a msd 6Al box grounded to the batt. alter is showing 14 volts best today was a 10.447 @128.98, 1/4 6.642 @ 103.25 1/8th best ET is in sig Help me find the gremlin
footbrake N/A SB 408 Scamp 10.10 @ 132 street/strip 73 Duster 340 street strip 12.79 @ 105
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: rebel]
#2110977
07/16/16 03:35 AM
07/16/16 03:35 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517 pacific northwest
Stroker Scamp
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OP
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strip the carb, blow out all the air bleeds & fuel holes, reassemble & try again. done that, did the same thing with a different carb too
footbrake N/A SB 408 Scamp 10.10 @ 132 street/strip 73 Duster 340 street strip 12.79 @ 105
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Stroker Scamp]
#2111012
07/16/16 09:28 AM
07/16/16 09:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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A pop out of the exhaust would tell me fuel is in the pipes. Look at the ignition system.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Stroker Scamp]
#2111033
07/16/16 10:38 AM
07/16/16 10:38 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 632 Casco, MI
Savoy1964
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 632
Casco, MI
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If the carb has high speed air bleeds they might be too small? Had similar problem adjusted air bleeds and fixed the problem on the dominator.
2003 Dodge 3500 Diesel
1964 Plymouth Savoy White 2dr sdn. 512 stroked, Dominator, New Best 9.75 @ 138.50mph 2019 Challenger Scat Pack 1320 White Knuckle-K&N Cold air filter, Billit Oil catch can, drag radials stock 11.911 @ 114mph
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Stroker Scamp]
#2111050
07/16/16 11:27 AM
07/16/16 11:27 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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See if a buddy has a MSD box you can try... I had a high end miss that you could barely hear and I did a A-B-A test with the box.. it was a box issue.. sent it in to MSD for a rebuild.. they said it was fine.. when I got it back it worked great... but I know the box was the cause(A-B-A) test proved that then try another coil
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: tboomer]
#2111083
07/16/16 12:06 PM
07/16/16 12:06 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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[quote=fbs63]If it has a RPM chip in it, run it without it. If the problem goes away the chip is bad. [/quote This is worth a try. I had it happen to my 64. Yep.. worth a try.. its simple... I've had a few that would change.. they would start dropping out a good 500 rpms below what they were set for... just pull all the chips and try it
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2111098
07/16/16 12:29 PM
07/16/16 12:29 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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I Live Here
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THIS............Was testing a friends Torino at night before a race and same thing, popping way before the redline so I suggested removing the chip and problem gone..........Not to say this is your problem but start w/the simple ones first........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: 70dusterjohn]
#2111124
07/16/16 01:38 PM
07/16/16 01:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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if the chip dont do it what about subbing in a spare regular electronic dist/ECU for a test? it'd be a bit of doing but it'd cut right to the chase by getting the Might/Sputter & Die system out of there
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2111164
07/16/16 02:52 PM
07/16/16 02:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517 pacific northwest
Stroker Scamp
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RPM chip has already been removed have a line on another box and coil to try Valve springs checked good I will let you know what I find
footbrake N/A SB 408 Scamp 10.10 @ 132 street/strip 73 Duster 340 street strip 12.79 @ 105
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Stroker Scamp]
#2111198
07/16/16 04:18 PM
07/16/16 04:18 PM
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crabman173
Unregistered
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crabman173
Unregistered
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Those kinds issues almost always ignition---MSD distributors use an odd metal for the reluctor--it does corrode fast--we spray new units with WD40 and blow off before install--check it first--I have seen them where you take cap off and it looks like a piece of iron that came from bottom of the sea--first thing I check when trouble comes--if you have real 12 volts to fuel pump it is usually not the issue--a "fill the can" test is best way to check fuel system --if carbs don't have trash they don't change all of a sudden--clean filters, can fill test, voltage test , check grounds but check MSD reluctor First--if that is good throw the coil in the ebay pile and get a new one
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: rickraw]
#2111423
07/16/16 10:56 PM
07/16/16 10:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517 pacific northwest
Stroker Scamp
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Is the positive wired direct to the batt? My 6al die competely last summer(no spark). Before it die, the car just wasn't running right, Pos. is wired to the starter and has been that way since day one
footbrake N/A SB 408 Scamp 10.10 @ 132 street/strip 73 Duster 340 street strip 12.79 @ 105
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: ]
#2111424
07/16/16 10:58 PM
07/16/16 10:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517 pacific northwest
Stroker Scamp
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OP
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Those kinds issues almost always ignition---MSD distributors use an odd metal for the reluctor--it does corrode fast--we spray new units with WD40 and blow off before install--check it first--I have seen them where you take cap off and it looks like a piece of iron that came from bottom of the sea--first thing I check when trouble comes--if you have real 12 volts to fuel pump it is usually not the issue--a "fill the can" test is best way to check fuel system --if carbs don't have trash they don't change all of a sudden--clean filters, can fill test, voltage test , check grounds but check MSD reluctor First--if that is good throw the coil in the ebay pile and get a new one I had the distr. out and all cleaned up it was pretty rusty
footbrake N/A SB 408 Scamp 10.10 @ 132 street/strip 73 Duster 340 street strip 12.79 @ 105
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Leigh]
#2113803
07/20/16 03:17 AM
07/20/16 03:17 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517 pacific northwest
Stroker Scamp
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OK got a borrowed MSD box and coil wired in to run AB tests tomorrow at the test and tune. Will update if I catch the gremlin and let you know what I found
footbrake N/A SB 408 Scamp 10.10 @ 132 street/strip 73 Duster 340 street strip 12.79 @ 105
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Stroker Scamp]
#2113840
07/20/16 09:46 AM
07/20/16 09:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,028 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
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master
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Tulsa OK
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My money is on the MSD. I had A digital 6 box that missed in high gear. I took it to the MSD trailer on drag week and they ran it through all kinds of tests and it passed, jumped spark like 4" on the test machine and they gave it the clear. I fixed it by changing to another digital 6 box. Fast forward two years and that box catches fire on drag week. I changed back to the original box and got my high gear miss back lol.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Stroker Scamp]
#2113858
07/20/16 10:25 AM
07/20/16 10:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,718 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Had the same thing years ago. Intermittent miss in high gear. But would do it about every 3rd pass or so. Chased it most of a summer. Ended up being the MSD box.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Stroker Scamp]
#2113918
07/20/16 11:39 AM
07/20/16 11:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,369 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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I Live Here
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I agree w/ these guys...I bet it's the MSD box. The coil is probably fine so change one at the time. I've also had weird high speed misfire issues w/ the MSD digital boxes. That's why I'm still running the old style 6AL. Usually when they die, they just stop firing completely, but not always. Pat Collins at TechWest Racing in NC repairs MSD products. http://www.techwestracing.com/
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2114527
07/21/16 02:11 AM
07/21/16 02:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517 pacific northwest
Stroker Scamp
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Well did the AB test with the borrowed box first same issue, then tried the borrowed coil same issue, went back to the originals system and it cleaned up a bit but it was so hot out that I think it may be a carb issue?, Going to go back to a slick instead of the drag radial to take out one variable...best time in sig I found the air and it was about 900', im sure we were at 2500' or so today, search continues Good thing is my daughter at the age of 17 is hooked and the Duster is running pretty spot on at 12.90-13.00 and she is cutting pretty good lights, watch out Woodburn
footbrake N/A SB 408 Scamp 10.10 @ 132 street/strip 73 Duster 340 street strip 12.79 @ 105
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Stroker Scamp]
#2115021
07/21/16 06:48 PM
07/21/16 06:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,218 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,218
Bend,OR USA
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How old are the plug and coil wires? I had a set of Accel Super Stock 8MM wires wear out on three wires on the passenger side, #4,6,and 8. It burnt the graphite coating off the nylon center conductor at the distributor cap back about a 1/2 inch into the wires with 90 degrees ends on that set. I found that out with a ohm meter, these where not the newer wires with the stainless wires wrapped wound the cores like sold today, it would start a intermetent miss around the 1000 Ft mark in high gear at night during eliminations, it ran fine in qualifying during the afternoon I cut the bad part off about 1/2 inch back and resued the ends and dust caps and it ran fine after that IHTHs I can't believe your daughter is 17 now, it seems like she was 10 two years ago
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 07/21/16 06:51 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2115069
07/21/16 08:27 PM
07/21/16 08:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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I Live Here
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Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Just yesterday I found a dead wire on a fairly potent SB Chevy and was hard to catch w/that choppy cam but found it w/an ohm meter.........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2115081
07/21/16 08:46 PM
07/21/16 08:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517 pacific northwest
Stroker Scamp
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Wire are Firecores and maybe 2 years old with very minimal passes I put an Ohm meter on the wires and then again thru the cap nothing seemed out of whack
footbrake N/A SB 408 Scamp 10.10 @ 132 street/strip 73 Duster 340 street strip 12.79 @ 105
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Stroker Scamp]
#2115302
07/22/16 02:03 AM
07/22/16 02:03 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Wire are Firecores and maybe 2 years old with very minimal passes I put an Ohm meter on the wires and then again thru the cap nothing seemed out of whack Do you have a wideband and if so what does it show during this problem.........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2115319
07/22/16 03:26 AM
07/22/16 03:26 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517 pacific northwest
Stroker Scamp
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OP
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I do have a FAST 2 sensor wide band that I may try this weekend
footbrake N/A SB 408 Scamp 10.10 @ 132 street/strip 73 Duster 340 street strip 12.79 @ 105
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Stroker Scamp]
#2115323
07/22/16 03:38 AM
07/22/16 03:38 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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So you haven't used it yet then............
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Need help fiding a gremlin
[Re: Stroker Scamp]
#2115341
07/22/16 08:37 AM
07/22/16 08:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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I Live Here
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Is there any possibility of the ground for the whole system or power for the whole car varying? A loose(or almost loose) connection may cause trouble? As a last resort, you could put it on a chassis dyno and see what shows up, if they give the right readings? I found a slightly loose 12v+ connection to my MSD and command center, luckily it didn't mess things up.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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