Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
EFI Tunnel Ram or Single #2107686
07/11/16 01:53 AM
07/11/16 01:53 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
6
65 Hemi Offline OP
super stock
65 Hemi  Offline OP
super stock
6

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
I have decided to switch over a few of my cars to EFI this year. Is a tunnel ram with duals better or single intake better for big CI Hemi (605" and 582") and wedge(493" and 500") for race cars and street cars?


Doug

MOPAR or NO CAR!!!
1965 Dodge Coronet soon a 6.1 Hemi with a Magnson blower 810 hp on pump gas
1964 Dodge Polara 582" Indy alum Block 426-1RA heads,
1933 Plymouth PE all Steel, LT1 4L60E
1959 Plymouth Savoy 33,000 mile survivor
Old cars are never done. They are ongoing projects!
Re: EFI Tunnel Ram or Single [Re: 65 Hemi] #2107726
07/11/16 04:02 AM
07/11/16 04:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,303
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,303
Bend,OR USA
I would opt for the most air possible, especially on a drag race motor twocents

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 07/11/16 04:02 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: EFI Tunnel Ram or Single [Re: Cab_Burge] #2107743
07/11/16 07:50 AM
07/11/16 07:50 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,418
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,418
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Largest runner cross section is best....And TR's generally are best, but not always.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: EFI Tunnel Ram or Single [Re: 65 Hemi] #2107803
07/11/16 11:21 AM
07/11/16 11:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,728
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,728
Bitopia
Do you have some reason thinking a single is better on an EFI TR, other then maybe cost?

Last edited by jcc; 07/11/16 11:22 AM.

Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: EFI Tunnel Ram or Single [Re: 65 Hemi] #2107820
07/11/16 11:59 AM
07/11/16 11:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
top fuel
Mopar_Rich  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
More possible air flow is always better. You can't "overcarb" with EFI like could happen with carbs. The draw backs to multiple throttle bodies are:
* More costly
* Off idle tip-in is more aggressive so use throttle bodies with progressive linkage
* You use only one IAC (or none) so one TB needs to have it's IAC ports blocked off.

Re: EFI Tunnel Ram or Single [Re: 65 Hemi] #2107829
07/11/16 12:13 PM
07/11/16 12:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
J
Jerry Offline
master
Jerry  Offline
master
J

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
tunnel ram will have longer runners for low end torque boost. single plane converted to efi works, but most manifolds are designed for wet flow not dry flow like multi port injection. also runners on tunnel rams are more equal in length compared to a single plane. you can still run a single 4bbl throttle body on a tunnel ram. or you can build a custom top and add a front mount throttle body, or the list is endless


Superior Design Concepts
2574 Elliott Dr
Troy MI 48083
jerry@sdconcepts.com
www.sdconcepts.com
Facebook page: Superior Design Concepts
www.bcrproducts.com
Re: EFI Tunnel Ram or Single [Re: 65 Hemi] #2108481
07/12/16 02:21 AM
07/12/16 02:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,212
New York
polyspheric Offline
master
polyspheric  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,212
New York
The aggressive throttle problem from a big throttle plate can be fixed with a snail cam in the primary linkage. Read my comments on my site here:
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/TB-linkage.htm


Boffin Emeritus
Re: EFI Tunnel Ram or Single [Re: 65 Hemi] #2108591
07/12/16 11:12 AM
07/12/16 11:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
T
TRENDZ Offline
master
TRENDZ  Offline
master
T

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
The linkage is only part of the issue. TPS/blade relation for accel enricments can be a problem with some systems when big/ multiple TBs are used with some combos. Older TPS styles don't have the resolution of some newer stuff. I had a guys 355 inch SBC with an 871 and enderle 3 blade hat, converted to efi. It used a tps from a tuneport gm. The 3 sensors I tried were horrible with voltage "notchyness". Very difficult and finicky.
I always use a cam lever or progressive linkage on stuff I set up.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: EFI Tunnel Ram or Single [Re: TRENDZ] #2108645
07/12/16 12:22 PM
07/12/16 12:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,728
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,728
Bitopia
So the problem is NOT the size of the efi throttles, more the accuracy, sensitivity and calibration of the sensors, with current technology, that is the problem, correct?


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: EFI Tunnel Ram or Single [Re: 65 Hemi] #2108652
07/12/16 12:44 PM
07/12/16 12:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 562
Ohio
L
lockjaw-express Offline
mopar
lockjaw-express  Offline
mopar
L

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 562
Ohio
This is all great information!

I have learned so much from Mike, Rich, Trendz, and Monte...I am going to the Holley EFI for my GTX. These discussions are well worth their weight in gold!

Mark

Re: EFI Tunnel Ram or Single [Re: 65 Hemi] #2108679
07/12/16 01:25 PM
07/12/16 01:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
T
TRENDZ Offline
master
TRENDZ  Offline
master
T

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
With all of the modern efi control systems, the capability is there to get the programmed values perfect. If the main fuel table is set up correctly, you need "almost" no accel enrichments.
The issue is getting an accurate, linear TPS. You also need to remember that that if you are using multiple throttlebodies, you still only have one TPS. This effectively cuts the tps resolution down by the multiple of throttle shafts.
Now that single tps has to account for all of the throttle shafts positions.
It would roughly be like using one accelerator pump cam to control the pump shot of two carbs.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: EFI Tunnel Ram or Single [Re: 65 Hemi] #2108695
07/12/16 01:39 PM
07/12/16 01:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
M
Monte_Smith Offline
master
Monte_Smith  Offline
master
M

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
I personally have just never had these "tip in" issues some describe, even on cars with dual throttle bodies or huge singles. I prefer 1:1 linkage and that's what I always use. What you need to look out for is PEDAL RATIO. Don't make the throttle so fast on the pedal. That is what makes some EFI stuff so touchy on throttle, is that if you wiggle your foot, the TPS changes 20%

Re: EFI Tunnel Ram or Single [Re: 65 Hemi] #2108708
07/12/16 02:01 PM
07/12/16 02:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
T
TRENDZ Offline
master
TRENDZ  Offline
master
T

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
Everybody likes what they like. Just sharing what I've been seeing with cars set up and "tuned" by others before being brought to me.
Monte, what kind of TBs did you put on the reaper camaro? Slick looking units. Never saw the car in person, but from the TV views, I can't see how the are fastened down. They just look round with no flange.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: EFI Tunnel Ram or Single [Re: 65 Hemi] #2108720
07/12/16 02:20 PM
07/12/16 02:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
M
Monte_Smith Offline
master
Monte_Smith  Offline
master
M

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Those were some old NOS brand throttle bodies that he already had. They are 0-ringed on the bottom and have countersunk bolts in the middle.

His were very early ones and the shafts were not splined. I threatened to beat them off there several times with a claw hammer, before I got the linkage sorted...........LOL!!!







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1