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Hard starting after driving. #2097917 06/25/16 02:53 PM 06/25/16 02:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,385 Ohio rck850 OP pro stock
rck850 OP pro stock Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,385 Ohio	A few year back I did some upgrades to the 440 in my Duster. I added Edelbrock heads, Mopar .557 cam, new Holley Ultra HP, and replaced my Schumacher headers with Pro-parts semi-fenderwall headers. Since this upgrade, after driving for a while and shut the car off it cranks and cranks but will not fire. I have to let the car sit and cool down for 15-20 min before it will restart. I have no idea what the issue is. I never had this problem before tearing the car apart for upgrades, it was always dead reliable and fired up with the twist of the key. Ive tried insulating the fuel line and checking timing and all other diagnostic stuff. My MSD is mounted under the hood and is 15 years old now and I'm wondering if it is cutting out when it's too hot or if I'm having a fuel issue. I have a mechanical pump with a regulator. I'm at a loss and looking for suggestions. Thanks

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: rck850] #2097947 06/25/16 03:31 PM 06/25/16 03:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 16,137 Mesa, Arizona D dart4forte I Live Here
dart4forte I Live Here D Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 16,137 Mesa, Arizona	Originally Posted By rck850 A few year back I did some upgrades to the 440 in my Duster. I added Edelbrock heads, Mopar .557 cam, new Holley Ultra HP, and replaced my Schumacher headers with Pro-parts semi-fenderwall headers. Since this upgrade, after driving for a while and shut the car off it cranks and cranks but will not fire. I have to let the car sit and cool down for 15-20 min before it will restart. I have no idea what the issue is. I never had this problem before tearing the car apart for upgrades, it was always dead reliable and fired up with the twist of the key. Ive tried insulating the fuel line and checking timing and all other diagnostic stuff. My MSD is mounted under the hood and is 15 years old now and I'm wondering if it is cutting out when it's too hot or if I'm having a fuel issue. I have a mechanical pump with a regulator. I'm at a loss and looking for suggestions. Thanks How hot is it getting? Sounds like your getting a little heat soak. “So if it’s on the internet it must be true” Abe Lincoln

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: dart4forte] #2097953 06/25/16 03:37 PM 06/25/16 03:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,385 Ohio rck850 OP pro stock
rck850 OP pro stock Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,385 Ohio	The car runs between 195 and 210 depending on what it's like outside.

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: rck850] #2097956 06/25/16 03:39 PM 06/25/16 03:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	You need to figure out if you are losing spark or fuel when it won't start and anything posted in this regard will be a wild goose chase until you tell us what you are losing. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: rck850] #2097957 06/25/16 03:43 PM 06/25/16 03:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,671 A Andrewh master
Andrewh master A Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,671	I would do the simple things first. since you have a mechanical pump, I would just check for accelerator pump squirt first when you have this issue. it could be as simple as boiling out the carb. BUT since you mention no matter what it takes about 20 min to restart, I would look at ignition first. Check for spark when this happens again. carry a spare plug with you and just pop a wire off and run it up and see if you get spark. my bet is no. then you have to see if it is the msd box or just the coil. I have to ask if you run it up to temp and then shut it down again, do you still have that problem? or just after the first time? any extended driving?

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: Andrewh] #2097980 06/25/16 04:42 PM 06/25/16 04:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,497 N.E. Ohio K KillerBee master
KillerBee master K Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,497 N.E. Ohio	What distributor are you running? If it's electronic, especially a Mopar one, I would replace the magnetic pickup in the distributor.

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: Supercuda] #2098010 06/25/16 05:30 PM 06/25/16 05:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,315 Omaha Ne T TJP I Live Here
TJP I Live Here T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,315 Omaha Ne	Originally Posted By Supercuda You need to figure out if you are losing spark or fuel when it won't start and anything posted in this regard will be a wild goose chase until you tell us what you are losing. www.tandmautomotive-omaha.com

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: TJP] #2098023 06/25/16 05:56 PM 06/25/16 05:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,385 Ohio rck850 OP pro stock
rck850 OP pro stock Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,385 Ohio	Distributor is MSD, I replaced the pickup in it last year. I do have fuel at the accelerator pump and no fuel seems to be boiling in the bowls. If I start the car bring it to temp and run down the street to get gas its fine. If I do the same but go for a drive and come home or stop somewhere it needs to sit before starting.

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: rck850] #2098088 06/25/16 07:51 PM 06/25/16 07:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 270 Missouri Big_E enthusiast
Big_E enthusiast Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 270 Missouri	I had a problem like that before. I just put an electric fuel pump on it and never looked back. Your problem could be different. I did all the usual stuff like checking the spark, had spark, but when I took the air cleaner off it was dry as a bone when we pumped it. It was a hot one! Make sure your battery is up to snuff too. Last edited by Big_E; 06/25/16 07:53 PM. My old car: http://regcars.homestead.com/car223.html https://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSUAqAnlYZY

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: Big_E] #2098094 06/25/16 08:02 PM 06/25/16 08:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,385 Ohio rck850 OP pro stock
rck850 OP pro stock Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,385 Ohio	This is the first battery I haven't had issues with. It's a new AGM and it's been great. Always cranks and starts the car, when it wants to start. I've thought about vapor lock and fuel issues but the pressure gauge stays at the right pressure and the bowls are at the right level of fuel and the accelerator is pumping which makes me think it's an intermittent spark issue.

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: rck850] #2098670 06/26/16 06:20 PM 06/26/16 06:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA	Three things all internal combustion motors need to run, air, fuel and spark, or heat like diesel motors use, to ignite the fuel You've eliminated the lack of fuel so we all know the air is still here so what is left AKA, use the process of elimination to find where the electrical problems is now Do you owned and know how to use a Volt Ohm meter? If not buy one and learn how use it, you will be glad you did Another good thing to have is a wiring schematic or diagram for your car so you can check the voltage at each connection Most mopars have a firewall junction block that can cause problems on the wiring harnesses in the engine compartment and under the dash I will bet money or donuts on a loose or corroded connection in the ignition feed circuit, it is going open or high restance when heated up Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/26/16 06:25 PM. Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: Cab_Burge] #2098802 06/26/16 09:27 PM 06/26/16 09:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,385 Ohio rck850 OP pro stock
rck850 OP pro stock Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,385 Ohio	Took the car for a drive today and got it hot driving around. A mix of hard driving and cruising. came home shut it off and it wouldn't start. took the number one wire and plugged in a new plug and there was zero spark. I've cleaned all the bulkhead connectors and made sure I don't have loose connections there. I really think this 15 year old MSD is just starting to give up. I will try testing all the circuits first before I spend any money and I'll see if I've missed something. Thanks

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: rck850] #2098807 06/26/16 09:44 PM 06/26/16 09:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,671 A Andrewh master
Andrewh master A Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,671	try one other check as well. since it is 2 circuits still, put it in run and jump the starter relay and see if it starts/if you have spark. not just turning the key. It is too weird that it runs fine till you shut it off. if it were the msd I would think it would shut down when it got hot, not just not let you restart. so I don't think that is it.

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: rck850] #2098809 06/26/16 09:50 PM 06/26/16 09:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,315 Omaha Ne T TJP I Live Here
TJP I Live Here T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,315 Omaha Ne	Originally Posted By rck850 Took the car for a drive today and got it hot driving around. A mix of hard driving and cruising. came home shut it off and it wouldn't start. took the number one wire and plugged in a new plug and there was zero spark. Did you have a GOOD SOLID ground on said plug?? if not, no spark as electrons need ground to complete the circuit. www.tandmautomotive-omaha.com

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: TJP] #2099769 06/28/16 02:11 AM 06/28/16 02:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,385 Ohio rck850 OP pro stock
rck850 OP pro stock Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,385 Ohio	Another thing I've been thinking about. Ever since being put back together I've noticed I can add as much advance as I like and the motor doesn't kick back against the starter. Is this normal? I have a modified bushing from FBO in the MSD distributor and have 18* initial. The only thing I haven't tried is locking it out at 35 or whatever it should be.

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: rck850] #2102230 07/01/16 11:46 PM 07/01/16 11:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 88 pasadena,md red 69 runner member
red 69 runner member Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 88 pasadena,md	I bought a holley carb and that problem went away.

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: rck850] #2102247 07/02/16 12:05 AM 07/02/16 12:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 84 Oregon G gtx-guy member
gtx-guy member G Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 84 Oregon	Sounds like your getting heat soak. Might try a carb spacer. Good luck!

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: rck850] #2102562 07/02/16 04:41 PM 07/02/16 04:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA	You need to find out what is causing the no spark when heated up. Get someone with a Volt Ohm meter,or buy one, and look for the problem yourself. The first place to check is the ballast resistor on the motor or firewall, wherever it is located, to see if you have 12 volts to it with the ignition switch on not running when it is hot Check both sides, one side will have 12 volts input(the ignition feed side) and less than 12 volts output towards the coil or ECU If there is no voltage thier pull the wires off the ballast and check each wire for voltage and if still no current go backwards checking for voltage towards the ignition switch at the firewall first You can identify and correct this with the proper tools and knowledge Keep us in the loop, please. Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: rck850] #2102680 07/02/16 09:17 PM 07/02/16 09:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Do you people even read the entirety of the posts before commenting? He says he has fuel. He says he has no spark. How is a carb spacer or a Holley going to change anything? They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: Hard starting after driving. [Re: Supercuda] #2102743 07/02/16 11:50 PM 07/02/16 11:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,113 Tucson, AZ Ramrod39 My New Title
Ramrod39 My New Title Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,113 Tucson, AZ	Originally Posted By Supercuda Do you people even read the entirety of the posts before commenting? He says he has fuel. He says he has no spark. How is a carb spacer or a Holley going to change anything? You kinda know the answers to those questions, don't you?

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