Re: 440 Compression Test Results
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#2068250
05/06/16 12:55 PM
05/06/16 12:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
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Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Try adding the paper gasket to the head side of the pan gasket, if need be use paper on both sides. X2 X2. Both sides. member superformance (sp) has .015" paper gaskets to use on the valley tin. Permatex 99MA "high tack" the red spray thin glue/cement. mockup dry first to check bolt hole alignment
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 440 Compression Test Results
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2068269
05/06/16 01:29 PM
05/06/16 01:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 235 ga
ringo440
OP
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OP
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O.K. got the passenger side head off , don't care anything about big tube headers. Anyway I am not wasting my time by pulling the heads check out the valve stems . What would cause this type of wear?
Last edited by ringo440; 05/06/16 02:02 PM.
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Re: 440 Compression Test Results
[Re: ringo440]
#2068285
05/06/16 01:58 PM
05/06/16 01:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 235 ga
ringo440
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OP
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Head advice , It has 346s which is going to need all valves.Which I don't think has harden seats. Should I look for different heads to have worked or buy some rebuilt 542 heads from Aero racing. Or some other vendor. The guy was told when he had it built that the builder install larger valves had Sixpack pistons, Which he got neither just flat tops pistons and upgrade valve springs.Just a big cam in a low compression engine.
Last edited by ringo440; 05/06/16 02:00 PM.
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Re: 440 Compression Test Results
[Re: 469runner]
#2068349
05/06/16 03:35 PM
05/06/16 03:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
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346's were right on the cusp of the changeover (reportedly some were hardened some werent). I would NOT get rebuilt heads from Indy (aero)
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 440 Compression Test Results
[Re: ringo440]
#2068381
05/06/16 05:06 PM
05/06/16 05:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,249 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,249
fredericksburg,va
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Head advice , It has 346s which is going to need all valves.Which I don't think has harden seats. Should I look for different heads to have worked or buy some rebuilt 542 heads from Aero racing. Or some other vendor. The guy was told when he had it built that the builder install larger valves had Sixpack pistons, Which he got neither just flat tops pistons and upgrade valve springs.Just a big cam in a low compression engine. Good valve job on inexpensive 452 heads, they have hardened seats. Unless he has big bucks be done with it. He could spend a ton of money and not show much difference on a street car running pump gas. These guys on here will have you building a 1000 hp $50,000 engine for the street.
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Re: 440 Compression Test Results
[Re: ringo440]
#2068564
05/06/16 11:16 PM
05/06/16 11:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,249 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
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master
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fredericksburg,va
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Found some 452 heads local that looks pretty good . Going to have them rebuilt and install springs from other heads. It is valve stem wear. Some of the exhaust has wear and some of intake. If you lay a straight edge across the valve spring there is height different of 1/8 inch between some of the spring which tell are sitting lower in the valve seats.11 That was from the unleaded fuel, I have a set of 340 j heads that did the same thing, about 20,000 miles on them.
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Re: 440 Compression Test Results
[Re: ringo440]
#2068616
05/07/16 12:31 AM
05/07/16 12:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,861 albany ny
05dakota
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I Live Here
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albany ny
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they werent rebuilt 20k miles ago for sure
5549 post on old board
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Re: 440 Compression Test Results
[Re: ringo440]
#2068833
05/07/16 01:40 PM
05/07/16 01:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Since the heads are off, it's too late to try, but.......
Since there was talk of fuel pressure, puddles of fuel, etc...... Anyone change the oil and get that gas diluted stuff out of there? A motor with gas diluted oil will usually smoke pretty good.
The OP's test of the "known good" motor was a stock 440 out of a Daytona? I assume correct 69 engine specs? If so, the 130psi observed on that test is about 20-25psi low, so to me the accuracy of the gauge is still in question. Best to do the test on some late model engine to verify the gauge accuracy, IMO.
Since the heads are already off, does the motor indeed have 6 pak pistons in it? Deck clearance?
I think the actual cr needs to be determined, along with the cam specs and installed position, so a better idea of what the cranking pressure "should be" can be determined.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 440 Compression Test Results
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2069107
05/08/16 12:31 AM
05/08/16 12:31 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 235 ga
ringo440
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The Pistons turn out be standard flat tops, The owner of the car was told by the builder he installed 6 pack pistons. The heads were also said to have been rebuild with larger valves, which also did not happen and I am not sure the guy did any thing other than change the springs. Half the seat for valves intake and exhaust are just terrible. The cam the owner told me has a 509 lift intake and 513 lift exhaust and he could not remember the duration, But the builder had the cam special ground. After looking at all that has been put on this engine by the builder I would say the special grinding was to the owners wallet.Even the head gaskets were installed wrong. On the head gaskets the word top is stamped on the gasket that means when installed you should see the word top when you set the heads on. The gasket is coated different from top and bottom so there is a right and a left for these gaskets. but they put the right on the left and left on the right.I would like to thank everyone who has offer advice and their opinions. I have been working on these old Mopars for about thirty five years mostly my own cars so when I have to trouble shoot someone else's car and they are telling it just started smoking all of sudden it kinda throws me a curve ball. The owner finally told me the car always smoke some but the guy told him he had setup rich. The car has a MSD ignition system it will burn anything up that come in the cylinders. I guess i have always been luck with my cars I have never had to trace down a problem like this, but I always went the conservative route with my cars. The way I look at it you either build a street car or a race car , you don't build it half and half and want to drive it everyday. So thanks again everyone and I will update you in about two weeks the heads should be ready then and I should have the time to install them. THANK YOU Moparts
Last edited by ringo440; 05/08/16 12:38 AM.
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Re: 440 Compression Test Results
[Re: ringo440]
#2069166
05/08/16 03:48 AM
05/08/16 03:48 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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Washington
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Photos show plugs darker in photos than they are, I showed plugs because someone asked what they looked like and to show it was not rich. That didn't work out from the photo. I couldn't get the camera down in ports to show the valves so plugs was it.As far the timing goes . When it showed up the timing was one of the first thing I checked. It was set at 42% btc. And the advance was not working. It has MSD distributor and someone set it up with the advance locked out and weights removed. The car started fine the starter spun over fine , Makes me think the cam wasn't degreed in when built. The owner had the weights and spring so reinstalled them and now I have 18 btc at idle and 34 btc at 3000. So much on this engine is over done for the way the guy drives it. Six pack carb setup ,big tube headers,3 inch exhaust,big cam, 5 speed Trans he never turns over 3000 rpms , Drives it a lot on interstate said it turns about 1800 at 70 MPH. With the A/C on Ray Charles can see that thing is pig rich.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: 440 Compression Test Results
[Re: madscientist]
#2069229
05/08/16 10:43 AM
05/08/16 10:43 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 235 ga
ringo440
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OP
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O.k. a few people has made comments about how rich looking the plugs are, And have i said the photos make them look dark , so I took another photo outside laying on concrete to show what they really look like. The problem with the car has been found it was the valve guides. The heads are in terrible shape,some of the darkness you see was oil burning on the plugs. Ray should have smelled the plugs and then he would have known it wasn't a running rich problem. Thanks again Moparts
Last edited by ringo440; 05/08/16 10:51 AM.
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Re: 440 Compression Test Results
[Re: madscientist]
#2069324
05/08/16 01:25 PM
05/08/16 01:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
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Ray Charles can see that thing is pig rich. Good humor bro! EDIT it looks much better in the last pic & there is the gas smell (hard to mistake that). OP keep us updated
Last edited by RapidRobert; 05/09/16 03:13 AM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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