Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: AndyF]
#2067985
05/05/16 09:50 PM
05/05/16 09:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,621 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
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Interesting that Edelbrock hasn't stepped up to the plate yet to make one of these Hmmm... I wonder if anyone else has one programmed in the CNC file yet I wish these heads were available when I built my engine Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2068097
05/06/16 01:54 AM
05/06/16 01:54 AM
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AndyF
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The billet valley plates have a taper on the edges since they are designed to fit under an Indy head. When you use them with a standard head such as the Edelbrock or Trick Flow then you end up with a narrow gap between the knife edge and the head. You can fill in the gap with RTV but I think it will leak fairly quickly.
I can think of a couple of possible solutions but I'll have to make the parts myself to fix the issue since nobody else has solved the problem yet.
Last edited by AndyF; 05/06/16 01:54 AM.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2068122
05/06/16 04:12 AM
05/06/16 04:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
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i did this for my Stage 6 heads. a little bit of sealer when you screw it down & its done.
Last edited by rebel; 05/06/16 07:12 AM.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: rebel]
#2068280
05/06/16 01:51 PM
05/06/16 01:51 PM
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Thumperdart
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i did this for my Stage 6 heads. a little bit of sealer when you screw it down & its done. Are you runnin a pcv valve or a vac pump...............
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: AndyF]
#2068292
05/06/16 02:06 PM
05/06/16 02:06 PM
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Posts: 5,487 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
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The billet valley plates have a taper on the edges since they are designed to fit under an Indy head. When you use them with a standard head such as the Edelbrock or Trick Flow then you end up with a narrow gap between the knife edge and the head. You can fill in the gap with RTV but I think it will leak fairly quickly.
I can think of a couple of possible solutions but I'll have to make the parts myself to fix the issue since nobody else has solved the problem yet. If you do I'd buy a few from you...maybe TF would carry them too! Might work well with their MW head when released!
Brian Hafliger
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: 66er]
#2068312
05/06/16 02:40 PM
05/06/16 02:40 PM
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Thumperdart
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I use an Indy style valley plate with RPM heads. I put Rite Stuff between my intake and the bevelled edge of the plate. There is a fairly large sealing surface in that area. I've been running this way for a couple years with zero leaks. Any pics............
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2068322
05/06/16 03:00 PM
05/06/16 03:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 370 Real North Cal.
66er
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I don't know if you can see it but here's a picture
Last edited by 66er; 05/06/16 03:07 PM.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2068326
05/06/16 03:09 PM
05/06/16 03:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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Are the ports raised or significantly larger that an oe pan wont work? I had some stage 6 heads that the ports were raised higher than stock stage 6s. I made a factory style, port encircling pan for that set up. not a big deal for me. Seems that if a special pan is needed it would be very easy to have made. I have access to a laser and brake. Let me know if this is something that needs to be on the market.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#2068362
05/06/16 04:04 PM
05/06/16 04:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,236 Oregon
AndyF
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Oregon
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The billet valley plates have a taper on the edges since they are designed to fit under an Indy head. When you use them with a standard head such as the Edelbrock or Trick Flow then you end up with a narrow gap between the knife edge and the head. You can fill in the gap with RTV but I think it will leak fairly quickly.
I can think of a couple of possible solutions but I'll have to make the parts myself to fix the issue since nobody else has solved the problem yet. If you do I'd buy a few from you...maybe TF would carry them too! Might work well with their MW head when released! If the guys at Trick Flow think about the problem at all they'll raise the ports on the MW version. Once the ports are raised and the intake surface extended this whole problem goes away. If they release a set of MW heads with stock port location then they just shoot themselves in the foot since single 4bbl intakes won't fit and the flow will be poor.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: RT540]
#2068434
05/06/16 06:24 PM
05/06/16 06:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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My old B1BS heads had an alum. bar bolted under the edge of the intake port of the heads that was milled 45 degrees. The bara also had small threaded holes for allen screws. I still have some pics, if anyone would like to see! Sure.............
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2068458
05/06/16 07:17 PM
05/06/16 07:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
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i did this for my Stage 6 heads. a little bit of sealer when you screw it down & its done. Are you runnin a pcv valve or a vac pump............... neither, i have a catch can it vents into.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#2068511
05/06/16 10:15 PM
05/06/16 10:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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The billet valley plates have a taper on the edges since they are designed to fit under an Indy head. When you use them with a standard head such as the Edelbrock or Trick Flow then you end up with a narrow gap between the knife edge and the head. You can fill in the gap with RTV but I think it will leak fairly quickly.
I can think of a couple of possible solutions but I'll have to make the parts myself to fix the issue since nobody else has solved the problem yet. If you do I'd buy a few from you...maybe TF would carry them too! Might work well with their MW head when released! Ditto that, I'm going to be needing one my self with the removeable inspection plate.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: dartman366]
#2068532
05/06/16 10:33 PM
05/06/16 10:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,487 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
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Andy I haven't seen the MW head, so I can't say what they're doing with it but I'm pretty sure they will be casting an intake to go with it....
Brian Hafliger
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2070202
05/09/16 05:30 PM
05/09/16 05:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,543 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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In the overall scheme of things, IMO the TF heads are closest in execution to the old Bulldog heads. The first version of those also had std height ports, but after enough clamering from users they finally changed to a slightly raised/extended runner, eliminating the need for the OE valley pan gasket. Hopefully, TF will follow suit and offer them like that as well. It would just make it a better head.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2070559
05/10/16 02:42 AM
05/10/16 02:42 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,664 North Sweden
RT540
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My old B1BS heads had an alum. bar bolted under the edge of the intake port of the heads that was milled 45 degrees. The bara also had small threaded holes for allen screws. I still have some pics, if anyone would like to see! Sure............. Here´s the pict. Can´t take credit, as the heads came this way when I bought them.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: RT540]
#2070744
05/10/16 12:56 PM
05/10/16 12:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Thumperdart
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Very clever..............
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#2073406
05/14/16 06:48 PM
05/14/16 06:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,236 Oregon
AndyF
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The billet valley plates have a taper on the edges since they are designed to fit under an Indy head. When you use them with a standard head such as the Edelbrock or Trick Flow then you end up with a narrow gap between the knife edge and the head. You can fill in the gap with RTV but I think it will leak fairly quickly.
I can think of a couple of possible solutions but I'll have to make the parts myself to fix the issue since nobody else has solved the problem yet. If you do I'd buy a few from you...maybe TF would carry them too! Might work well with their MW head when released! Here is the solution I'm working on. I need to tweak this design a little more and then I think it is ready to try on the dyno. I just made some aluminum "bat wings" which I can then glue a pair of gaskets to. The bottom of the aluminum inner gasket is bent up so it can be sealed with RTV to the valley plate. Should be simple and bulletproof.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2073504
05/14/16 08:58 PM
05/14/16 08:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,543 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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How thick are the new plates?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2073519
05/14/16 09:34 PM
05/14/16 09:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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I really dig all the stuff you make. Really. But why would you not just make that a simple factory style tub? Seems overly complex for a simple problem, and much more expensive. Also more leak potential with no upside. Am I missing something? All of this is brought up with the greatest respect... Really.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2073541
05/14/16 10:12 PM
05/14/16 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,236 Oregon
AndyF
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How thick are the new plates? I used 0.032 aluminum. So with a pair of the Superformance paper gaskets the stack up is 0.062 which is what I need for this combo. Actually a perfect stackup might be an 0.015 on the bottom and a 0.030 on the top side for a 0.075 total height. I'll have to play around with it a little bit to get a perfect port alignment.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2073543
05/14/16 10:14 PM
05/14/16 10:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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AndyF
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I really dig all the stuff you make. Really. But why would you not just make that a simple factory style tub? Seems overly complex for a simple problem, and much more expensive. Also more leak potential with no upside. Am I missing something? All of this is brought up with the greatest respect... Really. Sorry, I don't understand your question. It isn't simple to tool up a factory style tub. I already had a valley plate sitting on the shelf so these little bat wings are easy to make. It would be great if someone tooled up a factory style tub for fully ported heads but I'm not holding my breath.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2073549
05/14/16 10:29 PM
05/14/16 10:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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A single flat piece of aluminum with two bends and port holes. There is no need for the "tub" stamping. The inspection style plates are only needed for heads that hang over the valley surface. I understand that if you have one of these plates, that you may want to use it. I just see a heavier, more complex, more expensive part with more leak potential.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: AndyF]
#2078333
05/22/16 04:42 PM
05/22/16 04:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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on the second design, my only concern would be is if you were using a vac pump which I am planning on doing,maybe the rtv and 3 or 4 sheet metal screw's down the center would do the trick,, I like the first design for my application by using an Indy or Mancini center plate with inspection cover, that should seal better with the cast frame and the sheet stock having the break close to the sealing area for stiffness, both would work good if a vac pump were not used.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: AndyF]
#2078334
05/22/16 04:43 PM
05/22/16 04:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,908 Pattison Texas
CSK
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Here is the other idea that I'm working on. You can overlap two of these. The overlap area is more than an inch so I'm thinking that a thin coat of RTV would make a pretty good seal. The aluminum is only 0.030 thick so it gets really flimsy in the center but it should work okay for a drag motor. I need this in Max wedge ports!!!!!
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2078397
05/22/16 07:05 PM
05/22/16 07:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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Why not one piece? make the ports standard size, and leave material around the ports for end user fitment.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2078419
05/22/16 07:56 PM
05/22/16 07:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
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Why not one piece? make the ports standard size, and leave material around the ports for end user fitment. Since you don't like his design, why not try building something yourself, instead of complaining about what Andy's coming up with on his own? You already described what you'd like to see made.
Last edited by BradH; 05/22/16 08:17 PM.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: BradH]
#2078469
05/22/16 09:57 PM
05/22/16 09:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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Why not one piece? make the ports standard size, and leave material around the ports for end user fitment. Since you don't like his design, why not try building something yourself, instead of complaining about what Andy's coming up with on his own? You already described what you'd like to see made. I have made what I describe. That's my whole point. It is very easy if you have the equipment. From the parts he's shown, its obvious that he could make one. I was trying to stay out of the selling aspect, but if someone needs one made just pm me. All I would need is a couple of simple measurements for anything that is not factory deck ht.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2078514
05/22/16 11:17 PM
05/22/16 11:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Why not one piece? make the ports standard size, and leave material around the ports for end user fitment. Since you don't like his design, why not try building something yourself, instead of complaining about what Andy's coming up with on his own? You already described what you'd like to see made. I have made what I describe. That's my whole point. It is very easy if you have the equipment. From the parts he's shown, its obvious that he could make one. I was trying to stay out of the selling aspect, but if someone needs one made just pm me. All I would need is a couple of simple measurements for anything that is not factory deck ht. Pics?
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2078518
05/22/16 11:27 PM
05/22/16 11:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
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Hey Andy, I love your work and have used plenty of your tricks so I'm not being picky ok.
I made a ali valley tray for some 516 heads that I was using on the track years ago, the problem I had was the thin (1.2 mm about .050)tray broke it' seals on the front and rear of the engine because of vibration. I think your idea will need the flat bars each end and you will need to look at the join. Cheers Al
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2078691
05/23/16 09:20 AM
05/23/16 09:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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I don't have pics of the part not on the engine. The engine had the intake ports moved up .750", so no off the shelf pan would work. I'm not digging on Andy. His stuff is all top notch, and were I building another BB, he would be on speed dial. I just look for the simplest solution.
Last edited by TRENDZ; 05/23/16 09:26 AM.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: moparx]
#2078807
05/23/16 01:47 PM
05/23/16 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,236 Oregon
AndyF
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The two piece design is adjustable. I can build a one piece design for my own engine but I wouldn't sell it as a product since I'd get an endless stream of complaints. People build engines with blocks that have been decked or with different head gaskets or with heads that have been milled but then blame me when the valley tray doesn't fit.
The two piece design has slots so it can slide back and forth to adjust for different deck heights, different head gasket thicknesses and different cylinder head heights. would there be a stiffening of the two piece if you incorporated a 90*flange approximately 3/8" into the lifter valley on the lower piece ? notching for the china walls of course. or would this be of little benefit ? That actually seems like a good idea. By turning one edge down you would make the part stiffer.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: AndyF]
#2079768
05/25/16 02:00 AM
05/25/16 02:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,487 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
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The two piece design is adjustable. I can build a one piece design for my own engine but I wouldn't sell it as a product since I'd get an endless stream of complaints. People build engines with blocks that have been decked or with different head gaskets or with heads that have been milled but then blame me when the valley tray doesn't fit.
The two piece design has slots so it can slide back and forth to adjust for different deck heights, different head gasket thicknesses and different cylinder head heights. How about one for me??
Brian Hafliger
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2079806
05/25/16 04:42 AM
05/25/16 04:42 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,493 Sydney,Australia
tex013
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Sydney,Australia
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didn't Hughes or someone have a 2 piece tray ? was a lot of complaints of leakage at overlap . that may be the hardest area to seal ? maybe the folded edge will help this by being stiffer . maybe have a threaded bar spot welded to the plate rather than use sheet metal screws at least then they wont tear out
Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.94 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#2079958
05/25/16 12:39 PM
05/25/16 12:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,236 Oregon
AndyF
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I Win
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The two piece design is adjustable. I can build a one piece design for my own engine but I wouldn't sell it as a product since I'd get an endless stream of complaints. People build engines with blocks that have been decked or with different head gaskets or with heads that have been milled but then blame me when the valley tray doesn't fit.
The two piece design has slots so it can slide back and forth to adjust for different deck heights, different head gasket thicknesses and different cylinder head heights. How about one for me?? You want a one piece design or a pair of the two piece? I can send you some prototype parts if you want. Some fitting may be required......
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2082012
05/28/16 09:21 PM
05/28/16 09:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 810 Sidney Ohio
9SecRoadRunner
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Sidney Ohio
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I didn't read all the posts so I'm not sure if this has been suggested, But what I did was get some sheet gasket material, cut out my own intake gaskets leaving an extra 3/8" on the bottom, then I scored it along that extra 3/8" and folded up making like an "L" shape along the bottom, it sat right on the indy plate ... a little sealer and it worked (so far).....
You Thinking It's So Doesn't Make It a Fact
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: RT540]
#2091605
06/14/16 04:37 AM
06/14/16 04:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
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The AN10 bung have a 90° elbow with a pickup for the last dry sump stage, as I have a 6-stage pump. Lifter area is sealed of in the center. Good, it will get plenty of oil there.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: AndyF]
#2103282
07/03/16 10:08 PM
07/03/16 10:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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Andy, when you get this system ready for sale let me know, I am interested in useing this set-up.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2103509
07/04/16 12:05 PM
07/04/16 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
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Like mentioned before, there are so many variables as far as head milling, block milling, port size and location, wouldn't it be best to just tig an aluminum plate to the bottom of the intake and seal the ends with RTV like a small block?
[image][/image]
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2104581
07/06/16 12:21 AM
07/06/16 12:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,236 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,236
Oregon
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With the bat wing design I now have very good port alignment. Can't see all of it but what you can see by looking down the runner lines up exactly with the port in the head.
Might be good for a little extra power. I was at 715 last time on the dyno so we'll see what she does this time.
Last edited by AndyF; 07/06/16 12:21 AM.
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2121031
07/30/16 12:56 AM
07/30/16 12:56 AM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096
Australia
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NICE, I need to put in more effort with my intake alignment.
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2184882
10/28/16 09:26 PM
10/28/16 09:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,493 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,493
Sydney,Australia
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Andy , would this 3 piece plate work with 440 Source heads ?
Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.94 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2184924
10/28/16 10:22 PM
10/28/16 10:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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Trying to be helpful... The valley breather is a tough nut to crack. A lot of oil in suspension there. You need a large amount of well thought out baffling to succeed. Also, with any breather, the larger the inner diameter of the exit tube, the lower the velocity. Velocity is the common culprit of oil escaping from breathers.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: lifter valley plate for trick flows
[Re: Jimbo]
#2194601
11/11/16 10:37 AM
11/11/16 10:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942 Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
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Looks Great Andy! How did the valley breather work out?
Are the Batwings also available? Standard and/or MW port?
Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts 66 Belv. II - just a streetcar 88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
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