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E Body Hemi fender Question #206107 01/27/09 06:59 PM 01/27/09 06:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,596 Shopping @ HoBo Fright 340SIX OP Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin
340SIX OP Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,596 Shopping @ HoBo Fright	Yea I know it did not need a hemi to get 15" wheels Yes it is not my pic i got it from here sometime between 1998 and now sorry if it is yours if so let me know. I heard it was done on the line by guys with a tool, if so whats the deal? That would mean that every one would be differant [img]https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee87/fast340six/sig%20pics/2840886-340SIX-1.jpg[/img] VP of the MPM in New Orleans 73 Dart Sport 340/ 70 challenger vert. That may still get built, If I live long enough

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: 340SIX] #206108 01/27/09 07:08 PM 01/27/09 07:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,938 California 1970mopar master
1970mopar master Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,938 California	Quote: That would mean that every one would be differant Yes different to a degree - There was a template that was suppose to be used by the line workers - as long as they followed it, the fenders should all be "close" to the same.

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: 1970mopar] #206109 01/27/09 07:38 PM 01/27/09 07:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,304 WI RestoRick top fuel
RestoRick top fuel Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,304 WI	I've done my own informal research on the rolled fenders... from the numerous ones I've looked at (only original paint cars), it seems it was far more common for the lips NOT to be rolled. I was told by the original owner of "El Hemi" (70 Hemi Challenger) that his were rolled toward the end of assembly after alignment when they were rubbing. He worked at Chrysler at the time. Almost seems as if it was done on a case-by-case basis; not always done. With my customer's cars, I always recommend not rolling the fenders unless they're positive they were originally, and even then only if they really want to. The problem with rolling the lip is that the side of the fender above the wheel opening tends to get "soft" and usually gets at least a slight ripple that will need further straightening work. This is especially bad on 'Cuda fenders with their less sculpted shape and the narrower lip. Rick

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: 1970mopar] #206110 01/27/09 07:38 PM 01/27/09 07:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,596 Shopping @ HoBo Fright 340SIX OP Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin
340SIX OP Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,596 Shopping @ HoBo Fright	Kool wonder what the tool looked like. And what the template was? Be nice if someone had a measurment. Wonder if they also needed to roll the rears as well. Think the tire would have been an E/60/15 (235/60/15} don't seam like a 235 would hit but what do I know

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: 340SIX] #206111 01/27/09 07:47 PM 01/27/09 07:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,596 Shopping @ HoBo Fright 340SIX OP Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin
340SIX OP Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,596 Shopping @ HoBo Fright	Rick that some great info. I always ran 235/60/15 on a 15x7 rim with 4.5" back space and never had them hit.But also never looked to see if my cars fenders were rolled Guess I will look this weekend to see. Just ran acrosss that pic on a disk I had and it got me thinking as to what the deal was with them And if i was going to do it that it should be now before I do any body work to them Does anyone have a measurement on how much was rolled ?

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: 340SIX] #206112 01/27/09 08:39 PM 01/27/09 08:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,516 Las Vegas, NV 6bblgt I Live Here
6bblgt I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,516 Las Vegas, NV	The pic posted was mine ... give it back or feel free to use it ... Whatever!! It was an original paint AAR fender FF4. An original paint EK2 10/69 "HEMI FENDER" had wheel lip mouldings when new. A restored GW3 '71 'Cuda, they do appear very similar.

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: 6bblgt] #206113 01/27/09 08:50 PM 01/27/09 08:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,407 S.E. Florida, USA rrunner master
rrunner master Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,407 S.E. Florida, USA	Quote: The pic posted was mine ... give it back or feel free to use it ... Whatever!! It was an original paint AAR fender FF4. An original paint EK2 10/69 "HEMI FENDER" had wheel lip mouldings when new. A restored GW3 '71 'Cuda, they do appear very similar. So did the wheel lip moldings get rolled with the fender Also were replacement fenders rolled? My crash books show different part #'s for 70 14" & 15" wheels and 71 Bcuda 14" & 15" wheels and 71 Cuda 14" & 15" wheels

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: 340SIX] #206114 01/27/09 09:31 PM 01/27/09 09:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,304 WI RestoRick top fuel
RestoRick top fuel Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,304 WI	Quote: Rick that some great info. I always ran 235/60/15 on a 15x7 rim with 4.5" back space and never had them hit.But also never looked to see if my cars fenders were rolled Guess I will look this weekend to see. Just ran acrosss that pic on a disk I had and it got me thinking as to what the deal was with them And if i was going to do it that it should be now before I do any body work to them Does anyone have a measurement on how much was rolled ? Definitely would do it before bodywork, because as I say, you'll likely be needing to do some straightening after.

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: rrunner] #206115 01/27/09 10:24 PM 01/27/09 10:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,596 Shopping @ HoBo Fright 340SIX OP Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin
340SIX OP Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,596 Shopping @ HoBo Fright	Quote: So did the wheel lip moldings get rolled with the fender Also were replacement fenders rolled? My crash books show different part #'s for 70 14" & 15" wheels and 71 Bcuda 14" & 15" wheels and 71 Cuda 14" & 15" wheels AHH ya beat me to it that was my next question Anyone know what type of tool was used? Speculation on why this was being crudely done on the line and why just the fronts and not the rears? I must have to much time on my hands.

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: 340SIX] #206116 01/27/09 10:48 PM 01/27/09 10:48 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Back in the day when guys were looking for a little more room for big tires the used a baseball bat. The shoved it in until the taper snugged up to fill the space between the fender and tire. They then put a little pressure on it as the car was slowly driven forward.

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question #206117 01/28/09 06:04 PM 01/28/09 06:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,596 Shopping @ HoBo Fright 340SIX OP Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin
340SIX OP Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,596 Shopping @ HoBo Fright	I guess if mine are not done then I will do them. But put the moldings on when i do so they match

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: 340SIX] #206118 10/17/10 05:02 PM 10/17/10 05:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 8,850 Central Coast, Calif. S Snoopy master
Snoopy master S Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 8,850 Central Coast, Calif.	The moldings were not rolled, they were crudely cut to match.

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: 6bblgt] #206119 10/17/10 11:37 PM 10/17/10 11:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 14 san diego C clownin mopar member
clownin mopar member C Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 14 san diego	Quote: The pic posted was mine ... give it back or feel free to use it ... Whatever!! It was an original paint AAR fender FF4. Wasn't there just an article by Frank Battalson (sp) that said NO AAR or TA fenders were EVER rolled!? If I knew retirement was this great, I would have done it first!

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: rrunner] #206120 10/18/10 01:16 AM 10/18/10 01:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 454 PNW B Beebuzzn mopar
Beebuzzn mopar B Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 454 PNW	Here is a picture of the wheel lip moulding that came off my early 70 A66 Challenger that had 15" wheels. Snip away 6255931-IMG_3597.JPG (375 downloads)

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: Beebuzzn] #206121 10/18/10 06:05 PM 10/18/10 06:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,108 Chicago Blackhawks H hemicar1971 master
hemicar1971 master H Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,108 Chicago Blackhawks	Got an email on this post and was asked what my cars had. First car early 1971 Challenger Convertable 318 auto,wheel well trim, fenders are rolled for about 4 inches prior to the brace on the fender. Second car is a June built 1971 Hemi Challenger, no wheel well trim, rolled fenders same as the convertable, rolled for about 4 inches before the bracing on the fender.Before meaning in front of the bracing. I also have a pair of NOS fender and they are NOT rolled. Looking at that I would imagine it was done prior to alpo or paint in the body shop at Chrysler. I believe it was an option job that came down the line once in a while when the 15 inch large tires and rims were going on a car and if the worker felt like doing it then it got done. The body shop in the 70s was a place that no one wanted to work, dirty smokie and you had to wear coveralls and protected gear it was hot. so the low seniority was put there and they would move to another job as fast as they were allowed.

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: hemicar1971] #206122 10/19/10 03:34 AM 10/19/10 03:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,668 Mi,U.S.A. M mike s top fuel
mike s top fuel M Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,668 Mi,U.S.A.	Wheel lips were done at Creative Ind. not on the line.Done by hand using very simple tools.Cars were done just after being built.No cars were repainted etc.I contacted Frank after reading his article and he printed a retraction in the next issue.Most hand modded fenders should be very similar. One guy did almost all the rights and another guy (me) did the lefts.We did have a second crew for a very short time but they were released for shoddy work.Only the Cudas had the moldings cut.The Challenger moldings(all 4)were discarded because they were too thin. No Hemi Challengers should have wheel lip moldings.They were not delivered with them.Problem appears to be that because the mods were rather crude someone decided that they were done in someones garage,they were not and people discarded the modded fenders.Also the fenders were only hand modded until the "Hemi-fender" was ready which was about March of 1970.Only the factory modified (stamping changed to clearance tire) Hemi-fender car had the Hemi fender tag.If someone has production dates for the Hemi e- bodies I can give you a very accurate total for the cars done at Creative Ind.There were no hand modded service fenders. I might add that only a very few 70 cars if any got out without either of the modded fenders.No 71's had hand modded fenders.We only did Hemi-e-bodies.I have checked almost every car I have seen other the years and many cars have had one or both fenders replaced.I have researched this with the other Creative employees and it is our contention that we did nearly all cars produced until the modded stamped fenders were ready.It was the large tires not the 15 in wheels that needed the extra space. Last edited by mike s; 10/19/10 04:04 AM. Leave the gun.......take the Cannoli's....Mike

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: mike s] #206123 10/19/10 10:01 PM 10/19/10 10:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,651 Hamtramck, PA A Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,651 Hamtramck, PA	Sunroof cars are the only ones I know of for sure that went to an outside vendor (ASC) for modification. (So far.) So I have some questions about the fender mods / Creative Industries; Why were the modifications not done at the plant? Did the cars go back to the plant after the mods were done or were they shipped straight to the dealerships from Creative once completed? Do you have or know of any photos of these cars at Creative? Just curious because I have not heard of any 1970 E-bodies that went to Creative for any modifications before now.

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: Alaskan_TA] #206124 10/20/10 02:31 AM 10/20/10 02:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,668 Mi,U.S.A. M mike s top fuel
mike s top fuel M Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,668 Mi,U.S.A.	Quote: Sunroof cars are the only ones I know of for sure that went to an outside vendor (ASC) for modification. (So far.) So I have some questions about the fender mods / Creative Industries; Why were the modifications not done at the plant? Did the cars go back to the plant after the mods were done or were they shipped straight to the dealerships from Creative once completed? Do you have or know of any photos of these cars at Creative? Just curious because I have not heard of any 1970 E-bodies that went to Creative for any modifications before now. [/quote 1. The cars went to the marshaling yard not the factory after the mods. 2. I have no photo's but I have being trying to access the Creative Ind archives ,so far the present owners have not cooperated. 3.Creative often did piece work for all the Big 3 Can you imagine the factory doing the mods? There are other reasons that I will not speculate on here. 4.Creative had a complete design studio that was only accessed by the Chrysler design team and the Creative management. 5.The 340 T/A and 340 Six Pac hoods were designed and built at the above mentioned studio.I worked on that project (at least 10 different versions) while we waited for more 70 Hemi e-bodies. 6. Who installed all the A-12 hoods? Creative Ind. at their East Detroit plant.Cars were shipped in, hoods installed and shipped out. Hope that helps ATA Leave the gun.......take the Cannoli's....Mike

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: mike s] #206125 10/20/10 04:18 PM 10/20/10 04:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,108 Chicago Blackhawks H hemicar1971 master
hemicar1971 master H Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,108 Chicago Blackhawks	Changing the direction of this thread a little. Just what mods did creative do to the A12s. 0. Did the A12 cars get shipped to Creative Ind. with the hoods on the cars. 1. Hood pin brackets were they on the car or not when creative got the A12s. Did Chrysler or Creative put the brackets on. 2. When the cars reached creative what motors were in the A12s. 3. Did creative change any transmissions. 4. Was the Dana in the cars when Creative got them. 5. Who installed the A12 Breathers, Creative or Chrysler and if Creative did was the 440-6 came in the car. 6. Did creative do any other work on the A12s once they reached there shop, and did they ship the cars back to the plant or the the shipping yard. When it comes to 1971 Challengers with Crushed fenders for the tires did Creative design the tool for the line to use in 1971. My 1971 Convertable Challenger had 14 inch wheels on it. Is there a reason why its fenders had the crushed lips on the front fender with 14 inch wheels. Both of my Challengers have the original fenders, the Hardtop had 15 inch Rallye Wheels when ordered from the factory and has the crush zones on the fenders. 1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY

Re: E Body Hemi fender Question [Re: mike s] #206126 10/20/10 08:18 PM 10/20/10 08:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 38 NE Ohio 6 66HP2 member
66HP2 member 6 Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 38 NE Ohio	Hey mike did you guys at Creative cut out the front fender braces too??? By the way Nice job on that left fender of my 70 hemi challenger.

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