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E Body Hemi fender Question
Posted By: 340SIX
E Body Hemi fender Question - 01/27/09 10:59 PM
Yea I know it did not need a hemi to get 15" wheels
Yes it is not my pic i got it from here sometime between 1998 and now sorry if it is yours if so let me know.
I heard it was done on the line by guys with a tool, if so whats the deal? That would mean that every one would be differant
Posted By: 1970mopar
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 01/27/09 11:08 PM
Quote:
That would mean that every one would be differant
Yes different to a degree -
There was a template that was suppose to be used by the line workers - as long as they followed it, the fenders should all be "close" to the same.
Posted By: RestoRick
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 01/27/09 11:38 PM
I've done my own informal research on the rolled fenders... from the numerous ones I've looked at (only original paint cars), it seems it was far more common for the lips NOT to be rolled.
I was told by the original owner of "El Hemi" (70 Hemi Challenger) that his were rolled toward the end of assembly after alignment when they were rubbing. He worked at Chrysler at the time.
Almost seems as if it was done on a case-by-case basis; not always done.
With my customer's cars, I always recommend not rolling the fenders unless they're positive they were originally, and even then only if they really want to.
The problem with rolling the lip is that the side of the fender above the wheel opening tends to get "soft" and usually gets at least a slight ripple that will need further straightening work.
This is especially bad on 'Cuda fenders with their less sculpted shape and the narrower lip.
Rick
Posted By: 340SIX
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 01/27/09 11:38 PM
Kool wonder what the tool looked like.
And what the template was?
Be nice if someone had a measurment.
Wonder if they also needed to roll the rears as well.
Think the tire would have been an E/60/15 (235/60/15} don't seam like a 235 would hit but what do I know
Posted By: 340SIX
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 01/27/09 11:47 PM
Rick that some great info. I always ran 235/60/15 on a 15x7 rim with 4.5" back space and never had them hit.But also never looked to see if my cars fenders were rolled
Guess I will look this weekend to see.
Just ran acrosss that pic on a disk I had and it got me thinking as to what the deal was with them
And if i was going to do it that it should be now
before I do any body work to them Does anyone have a measurement on how much was rolled ?
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 01/28/09 12:39 AM
The pic posted was mine ... give it back or feel free to use it ... Whatever!!
It was an original paint AAR fender FF4.
An original paint EK2 10/69 "HEMI FENDER" had wheel lip mouldings when new.
A restored GW3 '71 'Cuda, they do appear very similar.
Posted By: rrunner
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 01/28/09 12:50 AM
Quote:
The pic posted was mine ... give it back or feel free to use it ... Whatever!!
It was an original paint AAR fender FF4.
An original paint EK2 10/69 "HEMI FENDER" had wheel lip mouldings when new.
A restored GW3 '71 'Cuda, they do appear very similar.
So did the wheel lip moldings get rolled with the fender 
Also were replacement fenders rolled? My crash books show different part #'s for 70 14" & 15" wheels and 71 Bcuda 14" & 15" wheels and 71 Cuda 14" & 15" wheels
Posted By: RestoRick
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 01/28/09 01:31 AM
Quote:
Rick that some great info. I always ran 235/60/15 on a 15x7 rim with 4.5" back space and never had them hit.But also never looked to see if my cars fenders were rolled
Guess I will look this weekend to see.
Just ran acrosss that pic on a disk I had and it got me thinking as to what the deal was with them
And if i was going to do it that it should be now before I do any body work to them Does anyone have a measurement on how much was rolled ?
Definitely would do it before bodywork, because as I say, you'll likely be needing to do some straightening after.
Posted By: 340SIX
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 01/28/09 02:24 AM
Quote:
So did the wheel lip moldings get rolled with the fender Also were replacement fenders rolled? My crash books show different part #'s for 70 14" & 15" wheels and 71 Bcuda 14" & 15" wheels and 71 Cuda 14" & 15" wheels
AHH ya beat me to it that was my next question
Anyone know what type of tool was used? Speculation on why this was being crudely done on the line and why just the fronts and not the rears?
I must have to much time on my hands.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 01/28/09 02:48 AM
Back in the day when guys were looking for a little more room for big tires the used a baseball bat. The shoved it in until the taper snugged up to fill the space between the fender and tire. They then put a little pressure on it as the car was slowly driven forward.
Posted By: 340SIX
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 01/28/09 10:04 PM
I guess if mine are not done then I will do them.
But put the moldings on when i do so they match
Posted By: Snoopy
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/17/10 09:02 PM
The moldings were not rolled, they were crudely cut to match.
Posted By: clownin mopar
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/18/10 03:37 AM
Quote:
The pic posted was mine ... give it back or feel free to use it ... Whatever!!
It was an original paint AAR fender FF4.
Wasn't there just an article by Frank Battalson (sp) that said NO AAR or TA fenders were EVER rolled!?
Posted By: Beebuzzn
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/18/10 05:16 AM
Here is a picture of the wheel lip moulding that came off my early 70 A66 Challenger that had 15" wheels. Snip away
Posted By: hemicar1971
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/18/10 10:05 PM
Got an email on this post and was asked what my cars had. First car early 1971 Challenger Convertable 318 auto,wheel well trim, fenders are rolled for about 4 inches prior to the brace on the fender. Second car is a June built 1971 Hemi Challenger, no wheel well trim, rolled fenders same as the convertable, rolled for about 4 inches before the bracing on the fender.Before meaning in front of the bracing. I also have a pair of NOS fender and they are NOT rolled. Looking at that I would imagine it was done prior to alpo or paint in the body shop at Chrysler. I believe it was an option job that came down the line once in a while when the 15 inch large tires and rims were going on a car and if the worker felt like doing it then it got done. The body shop in the 70s was a place that no one wanted to work, dirty smokie and you had to wear coveralls and protected gear it was hot. so the low seniority was put there and they would move to another job as fast as they were allowed.
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/19/10 07:34 AM
Wheel lips were done at Creative Ind. not on the line.Done by hand using very simple tools.Cars were done just after being built.No cars were repainted etc.I contacted Frank after reading his article and he printed a retraction in the next issue.Most hand modded fenders should be very similar. One guy did almost all the rights and another guy (me) did the lefts.We did have a second crew for a very short time but they were released for shoddy work.Only the Cudas had the moldings cut.The Challenger moldings(all 4)were discarded because they were too thin. No Hemi Challengers should have wheel lip moldings.They were not delivered with them.Problem appears to be that because the mods were rather crude someone decided that they were done in someones garage,they were not and people discarded the modded fenders.Also the fenders were only hand modded until the "Hemi-fender" was ready which was about March of 1970.Only the factory modified (stamping changed to clearance tire) Hemi-fender car had the Hemi fender tag.If someone has production dates for the Hemi e- bodies I can give you a very accurate total for the cars done at Creative Ind.There were no hand modded service fenders.
I might add that only a very few 70 cars if any got out without either of the modded fenders.No 71's had hand modded fenders.We only did Hemi-e-bodies.I have checked almost every car I have seen other the years and many cars have had one or both fenders replaced.I have researched this with the other Creative employees and it is our contention that we did nearly all cars produced until the modded stamped fenders were ready.It was the large tires not the 15 in wheels that needed the extra space.
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/20/10 02:01 AM
Sunroof cars are the only ones I know of for sure that went to an outside vendor (ASC) for modification. (So far.) So I have some questions about the fender mods / Creative Industries;
Why were the modifications not done at the plant?
Did the cars go back to the plant after the mods were done or were they shipped straight to the dealerships from Creative once completed?
Do you have or know of any photos of these cars at Creative?
Just curious because I have not heard of any 1970 E-bodies that went to Creative for any modifications before now.
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/20/10 06:31 AM
Quote:
Sunroof cars are the only ones I know of for sure that went to an outside vendor (ASC) for modification. (So far.) So I have some questions about the fender mods / Creative Industries;
Why were the modifications not done at the plant?
Did the cars go back to the plant after the mods were done or were they shipped straight to the dealerships from Creative once completed?
Do you have or know of any photos of these cars at Creative?
Just curious because I have not heard of any 1970 E-bodies that went to Creative for any modifications before now. [/quote
1. The cars went to the marshaling yard not the factory after the mods.
2. I have no photo's but I have being trying to access the Creative Ind archives ,so far the present owners have not cooperated.
3.Creative often did piece work for all the Big 3 Can you imagine the factory doing the mods? There are other reasons that I will not speculate on here.
4.Creative had a complete design studio that was only accessed by the Chrysler design team and the Creative management.
5.The 340 T/A and 340 Six Pac hoods were designed and built at the above mentioned studio.I worked on that project (at least 10 different versions) while we waited for more 70 Hemi e-bodies.
6. Who installed all the A-12 hoods? Creative Ind. at their East Detroit plant.Cars were shipped in, hoods installed and shipped out.
Hope that helps ATA
Posted By: hemicar1971
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/20/10 08:18 PM
Changing the direction of this thread a little.
Just what mods did creative do to the A12s.
0. Did the A12 cars get shipped to Creative Ind. with the hoods on the cars.
1. Hood pin brackets were they on the car or not when creative got the A12s. Did Chrysler or Creative put the brackets on.
2. When the cars reached creative what motors were in the A12s.
3. Did creative change any transmissions.
4. Was the Dana in the cars when Creative got them.
5. Who installed the A12 Breathers, Creative or Chrysler and if Creative did was the 440-6 came in the car.
6. Did creative do any other work on the A12s once they reached there shop, and did they ship the cars back to the plant or the the shipping yard.
When it comes to 1971 Challengers with Crushed fenders for the tires did Creative design the tool for the line to use in 1971. My 1971 Convertable Challenger had 14 inch wheels on it. Is there a reason why its fenders had the crushed lips on the front fender with 14 inch wheels. Both of my Challengers have the original fenders, the Hardtop had 15 inch Rallye Wheels when ordered from the factory and has the crush zones on the fenders.
Posted By: 66HP2
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/21/10 12:18 AM
Hey mike did you guys at Creative cut out the front fender braces too??? By the way Nice job on that left fender of my 70 hemi challenger.
Posted By: fig426
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/21/10 01:38 AM
My hemi Challenegr fenders are rolled and the braces cut out. They are original to the car.
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/21/10 01:49 AM
Quote:
My hemi Challenegr fenders are rolled and the braces cut out. They are original to the car.
& it's a '70 or '71? the SPD is when? Got pics? 
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/21/10 02:04 AM
Ok the A-12 cars came to Creative complete exc for the hood.Creative installed the hood pin brackets w/pins,lanyards and the hood.I am not 100% sure that all the Superbees were done there.No doubt on the Roadrunners.
Yes the Challenger had the brace cut out.We were rarely happy with the hand mods we did.We only had one shot at it per car.The hand mod is more a pinch than a roll often rather bumpy.
One more item the later 70 and 71 factory Hemi fenders were not rolled,they were stamped to remove the area that was a problem.I am only speaking of Hemi e-bodies.So far I have not seen any picture of one here including the nos fender in the other post concerning the e body fenders.I believe they (Hemi-fender)have a different part number also.I have been working on getting the number.No luck yet only confirmation that a separate number did exist.
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/21/10 02:07 AM
Quote:
5.The 340 T/A and 340 Six Pac hoods were designed and built at the above mentioned studio.I worked on that project (at least 10 different versions) while we waited for more 70 Hemi e-bodies.
Did Creative have a Canadian location?
Posted By: ricomondo
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/21/10 02:22 AM
I am SOOO diggin this thread~~
Very cool to have an assembly line person chime in,
Posted By: hemicar1971
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/21/10 03:09 AM
Mike are you asking for me to take some pictures of the fenders on my 1971 Challengers or are you more interested in the 1970s. Both fenders on each car look identical tp each other in the rolled crushed modification zone before the braces. This would mean that it was done via a machine and not a person with some tool.
Thanks for taking some time to answer some questions. I have about one hundred more but I will give others a chance to ask some.
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/21/10 05:49 AM
Quote:
Quote:
5.The 340 T/A and 340 Six Pac hoods were designed and built at the above mentioned studio.I worked on that project (at least 10 different versions) while we waited for more 70 Hemi e-bodies.
Did Creative have a Canadian location?
Not that I knew of but they were around until the 90's.Creative was a full service company that could do almost any type job for the OEM's.They had complete machine shop,wood shop,design,styling and engineering and more.
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/21/10 06:20 AM
Quote:
Mike are you asking for me to take some pictures of the fenders on my 1971 Challengers or are you more interested in the 1970s. Both fenders on each car look identical tp each other in the rolled crushed modification zone before the braces. This would mean that it was done via a machine and not a person with some tool.
Thanks for taking some time to answer some questions. I have about one hundred more but I will give others a chance to ask some.
I can only speak on the 70's cars with 100% certainty.I have seen the stamped fender on cars over the years.Even some with one of each.It should have also been the service fender.(Hemi only)It would be great to see the 71's also.The modified(stamped)fender should be the 71 Hemi fender.I can't see why they would have changed it for such a small run.
The pictures that have been shown have been very helpful but pictures of the inside of the fender will be the most helpful.
No problem with questions,nice to contribute something to the forum.
Sadly it appears that the original fenders were dismissed and discarded in many cases.It makes sense that you find a rusty car want to restore it you go get nicer sheet metal especially if you did not realize the fenders were unique.Figure in restorer misunderstanding,a lack of any announcement by mother Mopar, fender benders and race cars it all adds up.
Posted By: Morty426
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/21/10 06:02 PM
Quote:
Quote:
My hemi Challenegr fenders are rolled and the braces cut out. They are original to the car.
& it's a '70 or '71? the SPD is when? Got pics?
Dan,
I can get you a pic of my 70 hemi Challenger passenger fender it's original to the car.
And I think I have an NOS 71 fender on my 71 340 car that I can take a pic of too.
Curious - Is it true that Hemi Challengers never wheel trim????
Morty
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/21/10 06:46 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
My hemi Challenegr fenders are rolled and the braces cut out. They are original to the car.
& it's a '70 or '71? the SPD is when? Got pics?
Dan,
I can get you a pic of my 70 hemi Challenger passenger fender it's original to the car.
And I think I have an NOS 71 fender on my 71 340 car that I can take a pic of too.
Curious - Is it true that Hemi Challengers never wheel trim????
Morty
Morty as I posted above
"The Challenger moldings(all 4)were discarded because they were too thin. No Hemi Challengers should have wheel lip moldings.They were not delivered with them."
I might add this was the case for the 70 Hemi Challengers.I would guess that some owners or even dealers put them back on because the cars were coded for them.
Posted By: rftroy
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/21/10 09:08 PM
Quote:
I believe they (Hemi-fender)have a different part number also.I have been working on getting the number.No luck yet only confirmation that a separate number did exist.
Yes, as I recall, they did.
I was working the parts counter of the local Chry/Plym dealer back in 1974 or 5 and we ordered a fender for my friend's (now my) AAR. The parts book had a separate listing; I believe it may have been listed as "for 15 inch wheel". We ordered a passenger fender, but it had been superseded to the standard fender.
I still have the NOS fender from ~1975. I will have to take a look at it around the wheel opening.
I don't know if the different number was in the 70 book, or the 70-71 book, or what update set it may have been in. When we would get update pages, sometimes only a few at a time, the low totem parts grunt would pull out the old and replace with the new pages.
The parts manager gave us the 70 book when they were set for being discarded, so I will check tonight and see if it has the different part numbers.
I'm sure someone here probably has an edition that would show the numbers.....unless my old memory is really faulty.
Bob
Posted By: Morty426
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/21/10 09:13 PM
Quote:
Morty as I posted above
"The Challenger moldings(all 4)were discarded because they were too thin. No Hemi Challengers should have wheel lip moldings.They were not delivered with them."
I might add this was the case for the 70 Hemi Challengers.I would guess that some owners or even dealers put them back on because the cars were coded for them.
Mike,
I know what you said, that's why I'm asking! I've been in this is silly hobby a long time and I never heard that one. Since I have two hemi Challengers it might be a good thing for me to know Just want to get some additional confirmation.
Thanks
Morty
Posted By: VCODE
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/21/10 10:26 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Morty as I posted above
"The Challenger moldings(all 4)were discarded because they were too thin. No Hemi Challengers should have wheel lip moldings.They were not delivered with them."
I might add this was the case for the 70 Hemi Challengers.I would guess that some owners or even dealers put them back on because the cars were coded for them.
Mike,
I know what you said, that's why I'm asking! I've been in this is silly hobby a long time and I never heard that one. Since I have two hemi Challengers it might be a good thing for me to know Just want to get some additional confirmation.
Thanks
Morty
Morty,
My 70 Hemi Challenger is not coded for wheel opening moldings SPD 305
Old picture has no wheel opening moldings 
Bob
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/22/10 02:07 AM
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Quote:
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5.The 340 T/A and 340 Six Pac hoods were designed and built at the above mentioned studio.I worked on that project (at least 10 different versions) while we waited for more 70 Hemi e-bodies.
Did Creative have a Canadian location?
Not that I knew of but they were around until the 90's.Creative was a full service company that could do almost any type job for the OEM's.They had complete machine shop,wood shop,design,styling and engineering and more.
OK.....
So, if your statement - "The 340 T/A and 340 Six Pac hoods were designed and built at the above mentioned studio." is true, can you explain why the T/A hoods were stamped MADE IN CANADA?
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/22/10 02:16 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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My hemi Challenegr fenders are rolled and the braces cut out. They are original to the car.
& it's a '70 or '71? the SPD is when? Got pics?
Dan,
I can get you a pic of my 70 hemi Challenger passenger fender it's original to the car.
And I think I have an NOS 71 fender on my 71 340 car that I can take a pic of too.
Curious - Is it true that Hemi Challengers never wheel trim????
Morty
Morty as I posted above
"The Challenger moldings(all 4)were discarded because they were too thin. No Hemi Challengers should have wheel lip moldings.They were not delivered with them."
I might add this was the case for the 70 Hemi Challengers.I would guess that some owners or even dealers put them back on because the cars were coded for them.
1970 Hemi Challenger wheel lip moldings appear to have been coded on broadcast sheets until about mid-model year. I do not have many examples here, but I checked them those I do have.
If folks have broadcast sheets for them can scan & email them to me I may be able to come up with an approximate date for the change.
Normally a change like this would be noted in a PIB (Product Information Bulletin) & sent out to dealerships so they knew about it. My set is not complete, for anyone that has them can you check yours for this issue please? 
Posted By: Paul Jacobs
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/22/10 05:53 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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5.The 340 T/A and 340 Six Pac hoods were designed and built at the above mentioned studio.I worked on that project (at least 10 different versions) while we waited for more 70 Hemi e-bodies.
Did Creative have a Canadian location?
Not that I knew of but they were around until the 90's.Creative was a full service company that could do almost any type job for the OEM's.They had complete machine shop,wood shop,design,styling and engineering and more.
OK.....
So, if your statement - "The 340 T/A and 340 Six Pac hoods were designed and built at the above mentioned studio." is true, can you explain why the T/A hoods were stamped MADE IN CANADA?
Several original lift off RR hoods I have had were also stamped Made in Canada.
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/22/10 06:02 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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My hemi Challenegr fenders are rolled and the braces cut out. They are original to the car.
& it's a '70 or '71? the SPD is when? Got pics?
Dan,
I can get you a pic of my 70 hemi Challenger passenger fender it's original to the car.
And I think I have an NOS 71 fender on my 71 340 car that I can take a pic of too.
Curious - Is it true that Hemi Challengers never wheel trim????
Morty
Morty as I posted above
"The Challenger moldings(all 4)were discarded because they were too thin. No Hemi Challengers should have wheel lip moldings.They were not delivered with them."
I might add this was the case for the 70 Hemi Challengers.I would guess that some owners or even dealers put them back on because the cars were coded for them.
1970 Hemi Challenger wheel lip moldings appear to have been coded on broadcast sheets until about mid-model year. I do not have many examples here, but I checked them those I do have.
If folks have broadcast sheets for them can scan & email them to me I may be able to come up with an approximate date for the change.
Normally a change like this would be noted in a PIB (Product Information Bulletin) & sent out to dealerships so they knew about it. My set is not complete, for anyone that has them can you check yours for this issue please?
I should have stated Creative designed and built the "prototype" hoods.Of course they did not manufacture the production part. They (or the Chry employees on hand) did hand lay the fiberglass on the many different scoops and hoods that I worked on.There were Chry employees assigned to the on site studio.They were changing hoods and scoop designs by the day.
The Challenger wheel lip moldings were removed from day one.If they were deleted from the options available later,it didn't matter they were gone already.
Posted By: a12superbee
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/22/10 08:02 AM
Quote:
Ok the A-12 cars came to Creative complete exc for the hood.Creative installed the hood pin brackets w/pins,lanyards and the hood.
Are we to believe that creative also painted all of the pin brackets matching them to the car of course, and then touched up the fender area where the hinge was removed?
Or did they drag them across town and then let them sit around out in the open with no hood?
Posted By: Dartman440
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/22/10 03:52 PM
I had 15 NOS Cuda Fenders That had Hemi Fender painted on the inside with a stencil. All I remember was it had a different part number. I sold them and a lot of NOS Cuda Parts at the Nats the first year it was at Indy.I think the part number was 2949545. I will try to find out.
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/22/10 06:52 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Ok the A-12 cars came to Creative complete exc for the hood.Creative installed the hood pin brackets w/pins,lanyards and the hood.
Are we to believe that creative also painted all of the pin brackets matching them to the car of course, and then touched up the fender area where the hinge was removed?
Or did they drag them across town and then let them sit around out in the open with no hood?
Cars were delivered to Creative without hoods,latches or hinges.The hardware kit for the hoods was in the trunk.Brackets were painted with the car and in the kit.Hoods were shipped in separately fron the vendor.The cars came to Creative in fairly small batches not hundreds as the facility was very small.They had some plastic taped over the eng compartment during the shipping.3 or 4 loads of cars in same amount left.Creative did have the paint shop at that facility but it wasn't used on the A-12 cars.
It was only a 10-15 minute ride from the plant to Creative on the surface streets.Not across town.
Posted By: dstryr
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/22/10 11:02 PM
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5.The 340 T/A and 340 Six Pac hoods were designed and built at the above mentioned studio.I worked on that project (at least 10 different versions) while we waited for more 70 Hemi e-bodies.
Did Creative have a Canadian location?
Not that I knew of but they were around until the 90's.Creative was a full service company that could do almost any type job for the OEM's.They had complete machine shop,wood shop,design,styling and engineering and more.
OK.....
So, if your statement - "The 340 T/A and 340 Six Pac hoods were designed and built at the above mentioned studio." is true, can you explain why the T/A hoods were stamped MADE IN CANADA?
Several original lift off RR hoods I have had were also stamped Made in Canada.
Paul, Can you verify that any were original to the cars you have had or not? I was told many years ago that the Made In Canada stamp on the bottom of an A12 hood indicated it was a replacement, but have never verified that claim either way.
Thanks!
Posted By: P1970HeMICuDA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/22/10 11:57 PM
Yes, all the fiberglass hoods were Made in Canada.
I have been told, Collins & Aikman was the
company name that was mentioned.
They all originally were stenciled underside, Made in Canada.
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/23/10 07:17 AM
It has come to my attention that my comments here have upset some in the "hobby".If anything here has been mistated I will post a retraction.100% of my posts concerning the 70 Hemi fenders are direct comment from me,the other person who did the fenders and his brother who fabricated the tooling used to do the work (20+ year Creative employee).They are 100% firsthand.Please note that they along with another brother and a very close friend (40+ yrs) all worked at the other Creative facility and worked on the following projects, Daytona's,Superbirds and A-12's.
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 02:16 AM
Odd that anyone would be upset. Some of the details on these cars are extremely hard to find 40 years later.
Some things are not meshing together, but hopefully we can figure them out with time.
That said, I did some more digging. I have more questions than answers at this point.
New wider oval 15-inch 60 series tires are standard with 340 and 426 engines;
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/dealerships/DealershipDataBook/1970/70_Challenger0005.jpgA66 cars show the std. wheel lip moldings are deleted;
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/dealerships/DealershipDataBook/1970/70_Challenger0024.jpgSame tires, so why mention the moldings being deleted only on the 340 cars if they intended to leave them off the 426 cars too?
From the 1970 Hemi Challenger broadcast sheets I have here, those with scheduled production dates Dec. 16 & before are coded for the wheel lip moldings. Those with scheduled production dates from March fifth up are not, no code at all.
Some AARs are coded M27 - Wheel lip molding delete. So, if the 1970 Hemi Challengers were meant to have the standard wheel lip moldings deleted, why did they not use the same code?
If anyone has a broadcast sheet for a 1970 Hemi Challenger between the scheduled production dates of C16 & 305 please send me a scan or copy?
Or if you have one not consistent with my findings in those date ranges?
I do love a good mystery.
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 02:44 AM
I agree - great thread - keep the info flowing!!
A66 Challengers recieved E60-15 Polyglas GT tires STANDARD (* early A66 production)
HEMI Challenger R/Ts recieved F60-15 Polyglas GT tires STANDARD
I'd WAG the "delete" wheel lip mouldings was a cost cutting tactic for the A66 package.
Delete the wheel lip mouldings & give the cars a "performance" hood?
Mike, how early in the model year did Creative start modifying HEMI 'Cuda & Challenger R/T fenders?
When did they stop?
HEMI R/T SPD-817 YES wheel lips on b'cast
HEMI R/T SPD-A27 YES wheel lips on b'cast
HEMI R/T SPD-121 no wheel lips on b'cast
HEMI R/T SPD-512 no wheel lips on b'cast
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 02:50 AM
Hey Dan, since you are our resident 'tire guy' do you know the actual inflated dimensions of an A66 tire (U82) vs. the U84 dimensions on the Hemi cars?
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 03:02 AM
I dug up some scans that came from Dean Herron for my webmaster to post on HH. They mention Creative designing the T/A hood as well as proposed T/A tire sizes / fender mods & then being cancelled later when they went to the mis-matched tire sizes.
I'll post links to the pages once Mike has them loaded up.
Posted By: RestoRick
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 03:06 AM
"I love a good mystery"
lol Barry... I was thinking the same thing!
One question I have (not doubting anything said, just asking)...
Why didn't they setup to do the fender mods in the factory metal shop before painting and installing w/o mouldings?
Odd from a production standpoint...
1. Extra handling of the cars to transport them for mods.
2. Wasted labor & parts installing mouldings, then removing them.
3. Paint damage to fenders.
4. Extra holes left in quarter lips with added rust potential from broken paint.
Rick
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 03:14 AM
I have heard two versions of the Creative wheel lip mods now. The other source said Creative designed the tool for the factory to use to modify the fenders.
Normally, if a car was shipped out to an outside vendor, the route code & / or Y codes would reflect it in some way. I need to dig out the invoices / window sticker copies I have & check the route codes / pricing next. Hopefully a clue or two pops up.......
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 03:36 AM
Quote:
Hey Dan, since you are our resident 'tire guy' do you know the actual inflated dimensions of an A66 tire (U82) vs. the U84 dimensions on the Hemi cars?
I might be able to do something like that.
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 03:42 AM
Two 4/14/70 Chrysler 15x7.0" "rallye wheels" w/E60-15 & F60-15 tires.
F60-15 (1972 tire) - 81.75"
82.53" circumference (= 26.02"
26.27" diameter) & 8.00"
8.25" wide tread
E60-15 (1974 tire) - 80.25"
82.00" circumference (= 25.54"
26.10" diameter) & 7.63"
7.50" wide tread
Both are used and worn, I wanted to put both tires at same pressure but no tire gauge to be found.
& only half the width difference (3/16") would be toward the fender.
dimensions in RED from KELSEY TIRE's web site
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 03:45 AM
Awesome!
How about overall height?
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 03:47 AM
F60-15 - 26.02" height (not loaded)
E60-15 - 25.54" height (not loaded)
Posted By: rftroy
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 04:14 AM
Here is the page from the May 70 version of the 1970 parts book.
Shows different B and J with and without 15 inch wheel.
But, 6.00 X 15 Tires means ?
Bob
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 04:22 AM
Your source is incorrect.Creative did not make a tool for Chry.They did fab the tools for us.Chry did not hand modify any Hemi fenders.They restamped the fenders with the problem area removed.Availablity of the new fenders seems to coinside with the March 5 cut off date for the moldings.Only those later cars have the second tag.
We begin work the last week of Sept 69 and finished about March 1st 70 (see March 5).We did 10-15 cars per day at least.The Creative lot was full of cars (100+ or more) when we started as was the area where we did the work.(about 18 cars)We did have weeks where we did other work including the holidays.Maximum of 5 weeks total.Those numbers prove only a very small amount of cars got out witout the mods.
If anyone recalls the model year and new car roll out started about the second week of Sept in those days.There is another issue.We changed the wheels and tires on many many cars.I beleive it was the Magnum 500 wheels that were not available when the cars were built.Possible it was the tires or both.Due the that issue and the original reason for the mods we think the cars were held back.It is entirely possibly that a small number were shipped out mistakenly.There are examples of unmolested cars with no fender mods.So far they seem to be Cudas that were wheel lip delete.We did modify other Cudas w/lip mouldings delete but it was rare for a Cuda.
This was a late change and they were in a hurry.I hope to find some paperwork but I doubt I will be able to access the archives since Creative was sold.
Hope this helps.
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 04:49 AM
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 04:49 AM
2
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 04:50 AM
3
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 04:52 AM
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 04:54 AM
That data relates to the trans am cars only, but it is cool to see the progression of how they dealt with the tire / fender problem on Challengers by changing the front tire size.
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 05:49 AM
Good stuff!
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/24/10 05:02 PM
I wish I had more.
Posted By: rftroy
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/25/10 06:41 AM
Quote:
Creative did not make a tool for Chry.They did fab the tools for us.Chry did not hand modify any Hemi fenders.
Now I'm wondering; the parts book page shows a different part number for 15 inch tire fenders. But if the fenders were only modified by Creative on the cars after assembly, why was there a separate part number in the parts book?
Who modified the fenders to be sold through dealership parts departments?
Bob
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/25/10 03:32 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Creative did not make a tool for Chry.They did fab the tools for us.Chry did not hand modify any Hemi fenders.
Now I'm wondering; the parts book page shows a different part number for 15 inch tire fenders. But if the fenders were only modified by Creative on the cars after assembly, why was there a separate part number in the parts book?
Who modified the fenders to be sold through dealership parts departments?
Bob
They(Chry)stamped new fenders with the problem area removed.They did not hand modify the fenders. Availability of the new fenders seems to coincide with the March 5 cut off date for the moldings. This fender was put on the cars (starting in March) and used for service.
Posted By: 69_SIX_PACK
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/25/10 04:55 PM
Quote:
all worked at the other Creative facility and worked on the following projects, Daytona's,Superbirds and A-12's.
News to me that Creative had anything to do with the assembly of A12's. I would think they had limited involvement if any. Maybe they fab'ed up the rear hood pin brackets?
Another possible source of the fibreglass hood was Plaza Manufacturing in Toronto.
Dave
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/25/10 05:09 PM
News to me that Creative had anything to do with the assembly of A12's.
Dave
....... 
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/25/10 05:35 PM
Quote:
Quote:
all worked at the other Creative facility and worked on the following projects, Daytona's,Superbirds and A-12's.
News to me that Creative had anything to do with the assembly of A12's. I would think they had limited involvement if any. Maybe they fab'ed up the rear hood pin brackets?
Another possible source of the fibreglass hood was Plaza Manufacturing in Toronto.
Dave
Creative installed the A-12 hoods.One correction from my earlier post.The cars were delivered to Creative with the rear pin bracket installed and painted at the factory.Examples of unmolested cars show no paint on the rear of the bracket or the inner fender behind the bracket.The rest of the hardware (pins etc) were sent to Creative in the trunk of the cars.
Posted By: curbman68
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/26/10 12:20 AM
A guy I know has an NOS Cuda fender that has the part # 3579379 ink stamped on it, and it has the lip folded down similar to the early build Hemi fenders, but not exactly the same. What do you guys think, did this fender come from the factory like this, or was it more likely modified before my guy got it? He has had it for at least 20 years and it was like that when he got it.
Posted By: 69_SIX_PACK
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/26/10 03:41 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
all worked at the other Creative facility and worked on the following projects, Daytona's,Superbirds and A-12's.
News to me that Creative had anything to do with the assembly of A12's. I would think they had limited involvement if any. Maybe they fab'ed up the rear hood pin brackets?
Another possible source of the fibreglass hood was Plaza Manufacturing in Toronto.
Dave
Creative installed the A-12 hoods.One correction from my earlier post.The cars were delivered to Creative with the rear pin bracket installed and painted at the factory.Examples of unmolested cars show no paint on the rear of the bracket or the inner fender behind the bracket.The rest of the hardware (pins etc) were sent to Creative in the trunk of the cars.
I really don't think so, read through the Tech Bulletin to the LYNCH ROAD ASSEMBLY PLANT. Pretty much covers everything in great detail.
http://sixpacksixbbl.homestead.com/instructions.html
Dave
Posted By: 69_SIX_PACK
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/26/10 03:48 AM
Quote:
News to me that Creative had anything to do with the assembly of A12's.
Dave
.......
Dave 
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/26/10 05:55 AM
Quote:
Quote:
News to me that Creative had anything to do with the assembly of A12's.
Dave
.......
Dave
Think what you want they may have planned to install the hood at the factory but for some reason Creative installed the hoods.Btw the last page mentioning the hood was packaged with the pins etc in the trunk.Why did they change? That I have no idea on.
Posted By: mike s
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/26/10 06:03 AM
Quote:
A guy I know has an NOS Cuda fender that has the part # 3579379 ink stamped on it, and it has the lip folded down similar to the early build Hemi fenders, but not exactly the same. What do you guys think, did this fender come from the factory like this, or was it more likely modified before my guy got it? He has had it for at least 20 years and it was like that when he got it.
That wasn't done at Creative(much too long)That is not the Hemi fender that was installed at the factory (not stamped)after early March 70.Looks like someone sort of copied the Creative hand mods. Does someone have a picture of the stamped fender,I think when you see that it will clear up most of the questions.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/26/10 07:22 AM
all worked at the other Creative facility and worked on the following projects, Daytona's,Superbirds and A-12's.
News to me that Creative had anything to do with the assembly of A12's. I would think they had limited involvement if any. Maybe they fab'ed up the rear hood pin brackets?
Another possible source of the fibreglass hood was Plaza Manufacturing in Toronto.
Dave
Creative installed the A-12 hoods.One correction from my earlier post.The cars were delivered to Creative with the rear pin bracket installed and painted at the factory.Examples of unmolested cars show no paint on the rear of the bracket or the inner fender behind the bracket.The rest of the hardware (pins etc) were sent to Creative in the trunk of the cars.
I really don't think so, read through the Tech Bulletin to the LYNCH ROAD ASSEMBLY PLANT. Pretty much covers everything in great detail.
http://sixpacksixbbl.homestead.com/instructions.html
Dave
Dave,...Creative's "signiture" installation of the hood pin benzels was unique to the A12's and Dodge Daytona models,....no other factory installation was performed like this on any model,....if you know what I'm talking about, you'll agree
Mike
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/17/11 04:06 PM
This 70 Hemi 4spd Challenger just surfaced and seen first in public at Fall Fling on Saturday.
Is this a factory rolled fender? Or something the owner did? Car does not have "hemi fender" tag.
More pics including fender tag here:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0&fpart=7
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/17/11 04:07 PM
another pic
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/17/11 04:09 PM
and another pics. Maybe this pic could be lightened to see where the roll ends.
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/17/11 07:23 PM
Quote:
I agree - great thread - keep the info flowing!!
Thanks again Mike S. Always good to see you here!
Tav
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/18/11 01:54 AM
Quote:
Is this a factory rolled fender? Or something the owner did?
I will say no. You can see the factory brace was in place when the car was undercoated.
Did anyone get a close up photo of the tag without the VIN wiped out?
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: E Body Hemi fender Question - 10/18/11 08:16 PM
I think creative removed the bracing when they did the fender lip, so it would be normal to see that spray pattern in the undercoat because undercoat was applied at the factory before the cars were sent to creative.
That said, I don't have an opinion on whether that particular fender is original or owner altered. I think you'd need some more light inside the wheel well to tell.
Tav
