Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#2033814
03/18/16 02:53 PM
03/18/16 02:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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Milwaukee WI
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All of those sentences are correct. You may be interpreting it wrong. Moving the reluctor has an effect on timing, but moving the rotor does not. " interpreting it wrong" is a big part of this thread. X2. If moving the reluctor position makes a difference, moving the shaft it is mounted to has to also make a difference. My post was unclear. I see how it could be taken wrong. Criz replaced his reluctor. This will change when the reluctor passes the pick up. So if all that was changed was the reluctor, not moving the distributor housing, he will have changed both engine timing, and fixed rotor position. My point was more referring to the video. The MSD phasable rotor would make no change in engine ignition timing.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2033843
03/18/16 03:31 PM
03/18/16 03:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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P are you sitting down? Hopefully not eating steak! OK the MSD tech said that when they made the video they activated an electronic retard box (mainly for Nitrous he said) which DOES change RP & they did that to show the bennie of their adjustable rotor to change RP as needed (which Joe changed in the pic) which is what we do slightly differently with redrilled reluctor roll pin holes. He did confirm that mechanical adv does NOT change RP
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2033860
03/18/16 03:42 PM
03/18/16 03:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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P are you sitting down? Hopefully not eating steak! OK the MSD tech said that when they made the video they activated an electronic retard box (mainly for Nitrous he said) which DOES change RP & they did that to show the bennie of their adjustable rotor to change RP as needed (which Joe changed in the pic) which is what we do slightly differently with redrilled reluctor roll pin holes. He did confirm that mechanical adv does NOT change RP Why do you keep saying RP... is that rotor point or what... you still dont think that as the mech advance comes in that the rotor (tip) doesnt change
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2033925
03/18/16 05:12 PM
03/18/16 05:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,220 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
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P are you sitting down? Hopefully not eating steak! OK the MSD tech said that when they made the video they activated an electronic retard box (mainly for Nitrous he said) which DOES change RP & they did that to show the bennie of their adjustable rotor to change RP as needed (which Joe changed in the pic) which is what we do slightly differently with redrilled reluctor roll pin holes. He did confirm that mechanical adv does NOT change RP Why do you keep saying RP... is that rotor point or what... you still dont think that as the mech advance comes in that the rotor (tip) doesnt change Logic doesnt compute on what msd told you. He must think it is locked advance. Hes saying rotor phase with the cap can be alerted with part(s), yet mech advance which moves said parts does not. Cant reconcile those two concepts.
I want my fair share
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#2033952
03/18/16 06:12 PM
03/18/16 06:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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RP, yes rotor phasing, where the rotor (point/tip) is in relation to the cap when it fires, what you see when the light "freezes" it. Yeah that is what the MSD tech said. I know that the rotor (tip) does not change as the mech advance comes in. I've seen it at least 6 times with my dist work & I went out yesterday & rechecked again cuz I had understood that all (3) of us were going to do that so I held up my end of the deal
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2033979
03/18/16 07:15 PM
03/18/16 07:15 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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RP, yes rotor phasing, where the rotor (point/tip) is in relation to the cap when it fires, what you see when the light "freezes" it. Yeah that is what the MSD tech said. I know that the rotor (tip) does not change as the mech advance comes in. I've seen it at least 6 times with my dist work & I went out yesterday & rechecked again cuz I had understood that all (3) of us were going to do that so I held up my end of the deal Well you and I disagree that mech advance will change the rotor position as the mech advance comes in... and that video does prove it... I dont care about about phase due to I would have already done that in the beginning when I set up my dist... but mech WILL change the position of the rotor
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#2033980
03/18/16 07:16 PM
03/18/16 07:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,171 Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
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Plymouth, MI
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Logic doesnt compute on what msd told you. He must think it is locked advance. Hes saying rotor phase with the cap can be alerted with part(s), yet mech advance which moves said parts does not. Cant reconcile those two concepts.
It does not change with mechanical advance, because all mechanical advance does is change the relationship between the engine and the rotor. The rotor to reluctor relationship does not change, so the rotor phasing doesn't change either. I figured that video was displaying a timing retard active through an ignition box, glad it was confirmed. It is electronically changing when the coil is commanded vs. the reluctor (and rotor) position.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: Blusmbl]
#2033985
03/18/16 07:20 PM
03/18/16 07:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Logic doesnt compute on what msd told you. He must think it is locked advance. Hes saying rotor phase with the cap can be alerted with part(s), yet mech advance which moves said parts does not. Cant reconcile those two concepts.
It does not change with mechanical advance, because all mechanical advance does is change the relationship between the engine and the rotor. The rotor to reluctor relationship does not change, so the rotor phasing doesn't change either. I figured that video was displaying a timing retard active through an ignition box, glad it was confirmed. It is electronically changing when the coil is commanded vs. the reluctor (and rotor) position. If it was retarded it would have gone backwards LESS than what it gained... we will say 10* retard but yet it still advanced(the rotor position)
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: mickm]
#2033993
03/18/16 07:31 PM
03/18/16 07:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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Mr P has a dist on its way to me. I will make the video of it on the distributor machine.. It will have a complete ignition system hooked up. Not just the distributor. Any specific requests on what you guys want checked? I'll cover all requests in the video.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2034032
03/18/16 08:34 PM
03/18/16 08:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Mr P has a dist on its way to me. I will make the video of it on the distributor machine.. It will have a complete ignition system hooked up. Not just the distributor. Any specific requests on what you guys want checked? I'll cover all requests in the video. ALL I have said all along is that the rotor WILL change position as the mech advance comes in.. put a mark on the cap if needed.. the timing light will always flash when it comes to the terminal of the reluctor.. we all agree with that.... but the rotor position will change in relationship to the cap... is that simple enough... RR says it wont move EDIT I say it will be very much like the video has shown in the link you posted.. the amount of dergees might vary but will look similar
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 03/18/16 08:37 PM.
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: mickm]
#2034056
03/18/16 08:58 PM
03/18/16 08:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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O.K. That's what we'll do. The distributor machine is at work. I'll set it all up Monday. Should have the video up early Monday evening. Anybody want to post their "stay" or "move" statement? I think the battle is getting stale.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2034060
03/18/16 09:05 PM
03/18/16 09:05 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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O.K. That's what we'll do. The distributor machine is at work. I'll set it all up Monday. Should have the video up early Monday evening. Anybody want to post their "stay" or "move" statement? I think the battle is getting stale. To me it was settled in your video you posted.. but then people would say that its a retard or some magic... what ever you video I will abide by right or wrong EDIT I spent $30 just to prove my point by to senting that dist to you... I bought a cheapo cap for it(part of the $30) to win a $10 bet... which I wont take anyways... its just the point... again right or wrong
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 03/18/16 09:10 PM.
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: Blusmbl]
#2034202
03/19/16 12:17 AM
03/19/16 12:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,220 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
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Logic doesnt compute on what msd told you. He must think it is locked advance. Hes saying rotor phase with the cap can be alerted with part(s), yet mech advance which moves said parts does not. Cant reconcile those two concepts.
It does not change with mechanical advance, because all mechanical advance does is change the relationship between the engine and the rotor. The rotor to reluctor relationship does not change, so the rotor phasing doesn't change either. I figured that video was displaying a timing retard active through an ignition box, glad it was confirmed. It is electronically changing when the coil is commanded vs. the reluctor (and rotor) position. The rotor and the reluctor are on the same shaft, correct? If that is moved by the mech advance, both move and thus the phase has to change.
I want my fair share
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: mickm]
#2034247
03/19/16 02:00 AM
03/19/16 02:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,171 Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
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Plymouth, MI
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Yeah, I'm flip flopping my position. You and Mr. P are right. It will change phasing as the mechanical advance ramps in.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: Blusmbl]
#2034255
03/19/16 02:09 AM
03/19/16 02:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Yeah, I'm flip flopping my position. You and Mr. P are right. It will change phasing as the mechanical advance ramps in. NO NO.... no flipping allowed.... LOL EDIT Understand ALL OF THIS is just for knowledge
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 03/19/16 02:35 AM.
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: Blusmbl]
#2034282
03/19/16 03:04 AM
03/19/16 03:04 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Yeah, I'm flip flopping my position. You and Mr. P are right. It will change phasing as the mechanical advance ramps in. Blus are you in ($10 entry) Mr P body yes All of this is just for knowledge! Anybody else want in? My 65th birthday is on the 29th & I'll have some extra money to play with/cover bets/rent a hooker/buy a steak, anything I want. Trendz on the video yes I have a request & you know whats comin: install cap with 1/2 hole drilled in it (like the one in the MSD video). hookup timing light. unplug vac adv and cap its hose. "freeze" the rotor at idle & rev it & see what the rotor does. my bet- with mech adv only, the rotor (phasing) will not move.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2034302
03/19/16 03:39 AM
03/19/16 03:39 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Yeah, I'm flip flopping my position. You and Mr. P are right. It will change phasing as the mechanical advance ramps in. Blus are you in ($10 entry) Mr P body yes All of this is just for knowledge! Anybody else want in? My 65th birthday is on the 29th & I'll have some extra money to play with/cover bets/rent a hooker/buy a steak, anything I want. Trendz on the video yes I have a request & you know whats comin: install cap with 1/2 hole drilled in it (like the one in the MSD video). hookup timing light. unplug vac adv and cap its hose. "freeze" the rotor at idle & rev it & see what the rotor does. my bet- with mech adv only, the rotor (phasing) will not move. RR.... are you saying the rotor doesnt move.. with JUST mech advance..is that what you are saying.. I just want to know for fact what we are talking
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