Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: mickm]
#2033451
03/17/16 10:53 PM
03/17/16 10:53 PM
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Posts: 8,222 Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
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I think everyone is assuming mechanical advance is doing what you see in the video. Some of it could be the multi spark to single spark crossover at ~3000 rpm, and whatever timing curve they have programmed into their box. MSD's own rotor phasing instructions make no reference to mechanical advance at all, only vacuum changing the rotor phasing. http://08961cd535df487cd1c1-bda68e188d86291aa366f725b37d442b.r87.cf1.rackcdn.com/84211_tb.pdf
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: Blusmbl]
#2033458
03/17/16 10:57 PM
03/17/16 10:57 PM
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Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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You can see that the rotor MOVED.. its a mech advance dist only... multi spark has nothing to do with making the rotor move
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: mickm]
#2033466
03/17/16 11:06 PM
03/17/16 11:06 PM
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Blusmbl
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The timing curve programmed in the box would change it, and they are specifically talking about timing being retarded for nitrous use in the video. You both are assuming the mechanical advance is doing it, but there is no evidence to prove or disprove that.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2033470
03/17/16 11:12 PM
03/17/16 11:12 PM
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Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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where is the video, I cant find it
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: Blusmbl]
#2033472
03/17/16 11:15 PM
03/17/16 11:15 PM
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Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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The timing curve programmed in the box would change it, and they are specifically talking about timing being retarded for nitrous use in the video. You both are assuming the mechanical advance is doing it, but there is no evidence to prove or disprove that. Can you see the rotor position has changed... you tell me how electricity will change the physical position of the rotor.. that isnt a optical illusion EDIT that video is talking about phasing the rotor and talks about what COULD happen if the rotor doesnt line up... and he talks of retarding the timing in the case f running spray... the title of the vid was rotor phasing
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 03/17/16 11:23 PM.
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2033496
03/17/16 11:40 PM
03/17/16 11:40 PM
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RapidRobert
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Mr P I see a gaggle of em on youtube, which one is it?
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2033498
03/17/16 11:43 PM
03/17/16 11:43 PM
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Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Mr P I see a gaggle of em on youtube, which one is it? In Trendz post on one of the first few pages.. I just seen you asked it a couple of post back sorry didnt see it
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2033501
03/17/16 11:46 PM
03/17/16 11:46 PM
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RapidRobert
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thanks bro, let me scroll back & find it. EDIT Found it & he says that if you change timing you need to check/possibly reset RP and he said something about a possible 25 deg arc (RP) change. I looked close but could not see a vac can but the movement of the rotor tells me it is operational. I am going to call him tomorrow (got free LD on my new phone so might as well put it to use). I'll post what he says. I ain't up on the start/retard stuff he mentioned but I'm looking forward to talking with him (Joe Pando)
Last edited by RapidRobert; 03/18/16 12:03 AM.
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2033565
03/18/16 01:40 AM
03/18/16 01:40 AM
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MR_P_BODY
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There isnt any vac pot on it.. I have the same dist on my W-9.. its their race unit EDIT it has a adjustable mech advance plate.. either use advance or lock it out
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 03/18/16 01:43 AM.
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: mickm]
#2033566
03/18/16 01:58 AM
03/18/16 01:58 AM
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SomeCarGuy
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The initial advance is set by hand. The rotor phase is set at that baseline. If you twist the dizzy, you are changing the rotor phase. Since we need a spark event sooner as rpm rises, and we cant reach out there and give another twist, the mechanical inside does the job.
Why else would mech advance be there? No way something that elaborate was conceieved and installed in a trillion cars otherwise. The vac advance does the same job, but needed a third way of changing rotor phase based on load.
It doesnt follow the pickup or ecu or anything else is determining when to switch on to give a spark event sooner. That is the only way you could get a spark sooner for the mech portion of the program, if the idea is the rotor phase isnt alerted by the mech advance. Im talking strictly about stock parts here, no multispark, crank triggers, fixed distributors, etc.
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: mickm]
#2033624
03/18/16 09:24 AM
03/18/16 09:24 AM
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Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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From your post, it seems you think rotor phase has an effect on ignition timing. It doesn't, unless you are so far off that it can cross to the next terminal. The timing is triggered by the pick up. The pick up is stationary when not in vacuum advance. The reluctor is fixed to the rotor. Nothing in the upper half of the distributor changes without vacuum. Timing change at the ENGINE is caused by the distributor shaft being delayed by the mechanical advance. That is all there is to it.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2033706
03/18/16 12:04 PM
03/18/16 12:04 PM
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Crizila
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From your post, it seems you think rotor phase has an effect on ignition timing. It doesn't, unless you are so far off that it can cross to the next terminal. The timing is triggered by the pick up. The pick up is stationary when not in vacuum advance. The reluctor is fixed to the rotor. Nothing in the upper half of the distributor changes without vacuum. Timing change at the ENGINE is caused by the distributor shaft being delayed by the mechanical advance. That is all there is to it. Your second sentence is not correct. Moving the rotor in relationship to the reluctor ( phasing ) will have an effect on ignition timing. I just did this. Installed a different reluctor ( 15 degrees advanced ) in order to get the rotor to line up with the cap terminals. When I checked the timing, it was advanced 15 degrees. Had to retard the dist. to get the mechanical timing back where it belongs.
Last edited by Crizila; 03/18/16 12:05 PM.
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: mickm]
#2033715
03/18/16 12:20 PM
03/18/16 12:20 PM
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TRENDZ
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All of those sentences are correct. You may be interpreting it wrong. Moving the reluctor has an effect on timing, but moving the rotor does not.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: mickm]
#2033729
03/18/16 12:50 PM
03/18/16 12:50 PM
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SomeCarGuy
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Yes, it does have an effect. Twist a distributor and tell me if changing where the rotor is in relation to the terminal has an effect.
I want my fair share
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: mickm]
#2033763
03/18/16 01:49 PM
03/18/16 01:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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The rotor's job is to direct the "already timed" spark from the coil to the correct cylinder. It has no inflence on timing.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2033765
03/18/16 01:53 PM
03/18/16 01:53 PM
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Crizila
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All of those sentences are correct. You may be interpreting it wrong. Moving the reluctor has an effect on timing, but moving the rotor does not. " interpreting it wrong" is a big part of this thread.
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: Crizila]
#2033769
03/18/16 01:59 PM
03/18/16 01:59 PM
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RapidRobert
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Grab a dist & do my procedure. it'll take 3 minutes (if that). you'll see the "magic". EDIT I just got off of the phone with MSD & he said that in Joes video their retard (nitrous app I'm assuming) box that electronically delays the timing to retard it, the timing does change RP (seen in the pic) & he went on to say that with regular mech adv the RP does not change
Last edited by RapidRobert; 03/18/16 03:14 PM.
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: Crizila]
#2033780
03/18/16 02:18 PM
03/18/16 02:18 PM
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SomeCarGuy
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All of those sentences are correct. You may be interpreting it wrong. Moving the reluctor has an effect on timing, but moving the rotor does not. " interpreting it wrong" is a big part of this thread. X2. If moving the reluctor position makes a difference, moving the shaft it is mounted to has to also make a difference.
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Re: engine missing carbon scoring inside distributor cap
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2033804
03/18/16 02:37 PM
03/18/16 02:37 PM
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MR_P_BODY
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Grab a dist & do my procedure. it'll take 3 minutes (if that). you'll see the "magic" That video shows the advancement of the rotor as the mech advance comes into play.. plane and simple do you agree
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