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How hard to turn over engine? #2022924
03/02/16 12:37 AM
03/02/16 12:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline OP
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HotRodDave  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
So this is my first time useing rings like this

1/16th std tension
1/16th Dykes ring
3/16 low tension oil ring

in a 4.040 bore 4" stroke 360

My machine shop talked me into this ring package, didn't come up with it on my own.

It is super easy to turn over, with the first piston installed I could still turn the crank with my bare hand holding the snout! Should it be that easy to turn over? With 4 pistons I could turn it over with one finger on a short wrench. I feel like it is easier to turn over than a 200,000 mile neon engine with glazed over bores and shot rings. I will try to get a TQ wrench on it in the next day or two but something don't seem right... I usually just use the standard tension rings as most of the engines I build are just fast street car stuff so maybe this is normal? Have I just been missing out on this much friction reduction all along?


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: How hard to turn over engine? [Re: HotRodDave] #2022927
03/02/16 12:45 AM
03/02/16 12:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,008
Finally a HUSKER again
Moparnut426 Offline
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Moparnut426  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,008
Finally a HUSKER again
Ive heard of super low tension set up being easier to turn over than a decent set up dana 60.

Cant think you have an issue man. Just sounds like a well put together, straight crank, and nothing hanging up.

Re: How hard to turn over engine? [Re: HotRodDave] #2022961
03/02/16 01:35 AM
03/02/16 01:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,033
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
master
mopar dave  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,033
Mt Morris Michigan
My short block took 13ftlb to turn using 1mm upper lower and 3mm oil rings. Maybe less when I replace the tight rod bearings.

Re: How hard to turn over engine? [Re: HotRodDave] #2023003
03/02/16 03:27 AM
03/02/16 03:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Thumperdart  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
My new combo has a back-cut top moly ring and back-cut napier second w/med oil rings and forgot the breakaway torque but it was low..........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: How hard to turn over engine? [Re: HotRodDave] #2023035
03/02/16 06:32 AM
03/02/16 06:32 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 952
Stockholm, Sweden
MrSixpack Offline
super stock
MrSixpack  Offline
super stock

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 952
Stockholm, Sweden
My old Super Stock engine was super easy to turn over.
With all 8 pistons in I could easily turn it over by hand on the damper with no tools.Evan with it all buttend up with heads and rollercam and 320lbs on the seat with Manley springs it turned over with a small breaker bar.
I don't have the # when I used a torque wrench, but it was up to spec according to my mentor Dan Dvorak.


1970 Super Stock Challenger ex. Paul Rossi
1968 Dodge Dart GT 340
1968 Dodge Charger /6 3 speed manual
1966 Chrysler 300 Loaded
1968 Dodge Charger R/T 440

1968 Mini Cooper
Re: How hard to turn over engine? [Re: HotRodDave] #2023096
03/02/16 12:05 PM
03/02/16 12:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
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Crizila  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
You should be ok if when setting the ring end gap was "normal". My same size engine with a standard moly ring package and the rear seal in place was 25" pounds to maintain continuous rotation.


Fastest 300
Re: How hard to turn over engine? [Re: HotRodDave] #2023947
03/03/16 05:54 PM
03/03/16 05:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
See if you can measure the breakaway and rotational torque with a inch pound torque wrench both ways. I use a old 1/4 inch drive Snap On brand beam type torque wrench with adapters to the 1/2 inch to the 1 1/4 inch or 1 1/8 inch socket size for those type measurements up scope Back in the early 1970s Dick or Mike Landy recommemded having from 21 to 23 ft lba break away torque and 15 to 17 lbs rotational torque both ways work That was with 1/16,1/16 ,3/16 low tension rings in both Hemi and wedge motors with 4.25 to 4.380 bore sizes work Let us know what you get thumbs My current bracket motor has .043 steel top, .043 cast second and a 1/8 inch low tension oil ring, these are for a vacume pump motor also. I flat forgot to check the breakaway and rotational torque readings before assembling the motor realcrazy It has really low drag though boogie thumbs This baby should make a hoop of power, hopefully luck
I agree with you on using standard tension oil rings on street motors, even on a bracket motors with no vacume pump thumbs
I've had bracket race motors with teh smaller ring paks used today with standard tenion oil rings that I can rotate the crank with 6 pistosn installed with my hands only on the cranks, adding the last two rods and pistons make the breakaway torque more than my old hands and arms can do now whiney whistling grin AKA aside, low drag is good up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: How hard to turn over engine? [Re: HotRodDave] #2024008
03/03/16 07:43 PM
03/03/16 07:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 413
Norway (old world)
Oyvind Mopar Offline
mopar
Oyvind Mopar  Offline
mopar

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 413
Norway (old world)
I can turn my built R5 shortblock on the cranksnout, with the cylinders dry... with .030 rings!! (Yes, I have to grab it!)

Re: How hard to turn over engine? [Re: Oyvind Mopar] #2024163
03/03/16 11:38 PM
03/03/16 11:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 170
renton , washington
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perfmachst Offline
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perfmachst  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 170
renton , washington
low tension ring combo in 340, , 1.2 @ 3 #, 1.5 @ 3,5 #, 3/16 oil rings, 7 #. takes 4.5 # to rotate short block, doesn't use a vacuum pump or vac u pan setup. has no oiling problems, runs dry. vac pump and vac pan not allowed in class racing.







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