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Re: 68CUDA&DARTS SS/AH NEWS AND UPDATES 2006
[Re: backaruda]
#20196
04/24/06 12:18 PM
04/24/06 12:18 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
mrnobodyracer,
Sorcerer SS/AH out first round at Indy 
Last qualifying pass was a 8.957, so we're gaining on it.
First round car ran an 8.991 on a 8.957 dial. Driver stayed at the starting line too long. Still a little paranoid after earlier passes when I was trying to leave at (.011), (.010) and .001 ... backed off to a .098 
We'll keep working on the car, power and the driver, not in that order 
Backaruda, Nice Job for the first time out with
your car. Mike did a nice job building that car so quick,and so far with bugs still in the car to run 8.957 was just great,I am looking forward to seeing your car in person,and please keeps us updated on your car. How did you come up with the name?I have the picture and its on here as attachment,Keep the pictures coming.
Thanks again for the post and info. 
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Re: BELLE ROSE SS/AH NEWS AND UPDATES 2006
[Re: Troublemaker427]
#20200
04/24/06 03:08 PM
04/24/06 03:08 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Ultimately, Bucky is responsible for the legality of his car.
Guys, this is very simple. There are explicit written technical specifications. If you violate those specifications, whether you are caught or not and whether you know it or not, you are cheating!! The rules say nothing about performance advantages, nor respect for your fellow competitor, nor the individual's integrity. They are black and white written rules that address the limits of what can be done...
Outsourced Parts - A real Racer knows every part that goes in or on his car. If the problem was a carb violation and we suggest that someone on that Team did not SEE the carb violations, that suggests that they are all BLIND! How many times have they checked to see that the carbs open fully, how many times have the carbs been on and off the car?? Did the carb guy just take it upon himself to do that, and then did not tell anyone on the Team?? AND NO ONE NOTICED ?
Most of these guys have been around/involved with these types of cars for years. They should know everything about their car and what it looks like!!
I would expect that the owner/driver of that car, should, at the next Shootout, gather all his competitors at his trailer. Stand up and tell them that he CHEATED! Not blame it on someone, nor something else. Tell them that he violated their TRUST and that he is profoundly sorry. HE WAS WRONG..
I am very disappointed in the Person involved and ashamed of all other people that suggest that "this little problem" is not SERIOUS.
IN MY WORLD, RIGHT IS RIGHT AND WRONG IS WRONG !!!!!
Stewart Pomeroy
Tampa, Florida
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Re: BELLE ROSE SS/AH NEWS AND UPDATES 2006
#20201
04/25/06 12:48 AM
04/25/06 12:48 AM
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Anonymous
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Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Ultimately, Bucky is responsible for the legality of his car.
Guys, this is very simple. There are explicit written technical specifications. If you violate those specifications, whether you are caught or not and whether you know it or not, you are cheating!! The rules say nothing about performance advantages, nor respect for your fellow competitor, nor the individual's integrity. They are black and white written rules that address the limits of what can be done...
Outsourced Parts - A real Racer knows every part that goes in or on his car. If the problem was a carb violation and we suggest that someone on that Team did not SEE the carb violations, that suggests that they are all BLIND! How many times have they checked to see that the carbs open fully, how many times have the carbs been on and off the car?? Did the carb guy just take it upon himself to do that, and then did not tell anyone on the Team?? AND NO ONE NOTICED ?
Most of these guys have been around/involved with these types of cars for years. They should know everything about their car and what it looks like!!
I would expect that the owner/driver of that car, should, at the next Shootout, gather all his competitors at his trailer. Stand up and tell them that he CHEATED! Not blame it on someone, nor something else. Tell them that he violated their TRUST and that he is profoundly sorry. HE WAS WRONG..
I am very disappointed in the Person involved and ashamed of all other people that suggest that "this little problem" is not SERIOUS.
IN MY WORLD, RIGHT IS RIGHT AND WRONG IS WRONG !!!!!
Stewart Pomeroy
Tampa, Florida
Stewart  with every word.
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Re: BELLE ROSE SS/AH NEWS AND UPDATES 2006
#20202
04/25/06 09:29 AM
04/25/06 09:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,866
North of Detroit
HemiDart68
master
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master
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Posts: 4,866
North of Detroit
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calling Bucky Hess a cheater is totally lame. This guy has been doing this for a long time, way before it was the cool class with the hemi hype. That carb screw is good for about nothing when it comes to ET. Granted he is responsible for his ride, and rules need to be enforced for everyone. The NHRA made the right decision, but im sure that carb screw was an oversight. Super stock pushes the envelope on legality with every single one of its cars. Park on origional 1968 hurst super stock cuda next to a current SS/AH car. The new cars are a far cry from stock. These guys are pushing these cars to maximum within a set of written guidelines. If your not on the edge in that class, your not going fast. If someone steps over a tiny bit people jump up to call him a cheater. Its not like he was spraying nitrous to the car. Don't be suprised at the next go around when bucky pulls the screws out and the car runs the same et.
In God we trust, all others pay cash.
www.lightnens.com (Home of the world's fastest Paint Job)
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Re: BELLE ROSE SS/AH NEWS AND UPDATES 2006
[Re: HemiDart68]
#20203
04/25/06 09:48 AM
04/25/06 09:48 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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A famous racer[many years ago] once said ...it ain't cheating...it's being competitive. I'll bet every one of those cars has something not legal on it.  They should just let the cars be A and AA cars again. Let them get their azzes handed to them by the Chevy boys, and it'll all quiet down. Right now, it's just a sword fight. 
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Re: BELLE ROSE SS/AH NEWS AND UPDATES 2006
#20204
04/25/06 11:08 AM
04/25/06 11:08 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,573
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,573
Fulton County, PA
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So there is no misunderstanding, I do not condone cheating; not even a little bit. When things are allowed to slide, we end up where we are today, arguing over acid heads, bogus rods, bogus combinations, etc. I believe NHRA needs to do what is needed to maintain the integrity of Stock/Super Stock.
My concern was not that rules were being enforced. My problem was the automatic assumption that Bucky was intentionally cheating.
Anyone who knows Bucky, knows that doesn't happen. Anyone who knows him, knows he really does not have time to look at every piece on that car! You can debate everything else, you can call it what you want, the fact is neither Bucky or Joe knew there was an issue with that set of carbs.
One more thing, I have checked WOT on that engine. I look to be sure the throttle lever contacts the stop on the base plate, not down the bores. I didn't see it either.
Last edited by CMcAllister; 04/25/06 11:17 AM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: BELLE ROSE SS/AH NEWS AND UPDATES 2006
#20205
04/25/06 11:34 AM
04/25/06 11:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 529
Colo
Billet426
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 529
Colo
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Quote:
They should just let the cars be A and AA cars again. Let them get their azzes handed to them by the Chevy boys, and it'll all quiet down. Right now, it's just a sword fight.
Really..I must have missed that. So where do you draw the line? When do you finally have to say enough? NHRA finally had the stones to say enough..finally. Now they need to keep going and clean stock and super stock up. Its to the point of past ridiculous now. The ONLY thing I like about nascar is, illegal carbs.. they keep them. Illegal motor..they keep them. Illegal car..they keep them.  Trust me that would put the brakes on this crap.
Got nothing against Hess. it sucks all the way around for him, the other racers that were there that day, Mopar, and the fans.
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Re: BELLE ROSE SS/AH NEWS AND UPDATES 2006
#20208
04/25/06 12:57 PM
04/25/06 12:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,573
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,573
Fulton County, PA
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I would hope that the people who matter-the owners, drivers and engine builders-would have a mutual respect for each other, they all deserve it. Charlie deserves all the credit in the world for what he's accomplished. Sadly, in a situation like this, emotions sometimes boil over. Couple that with anonymous people who throw gas on the fire for their own entertainment and things can get out of hand. Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail. The worst thing that could happen is a NASCAR style mud-slinging soap opera. Let's just race.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: BELLE ROSE SS/AH NEWS AND UPDATES 2006
[Re: CMcAllister]
#20210
04/25/06 01:51 PM
04/25/06 01:51 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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this is just my opinion, but cheating is cheating, if you put all of that money into your car, you should know what is on it. And i must say i am not a big fan of bucky especially afetr this, i remember last year he was all mad after he lost at the sportsman nationals......not like pancake or wilkes or them. they are true racers not people like bucky.
thats jus my opinion, so feel free to have a field day with it.
and yes, i am ticked off aout this whole situation.
casey
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Re: BELLE ROSE SS/AH NEWS AND UPDATES 2006
#20211
04/25/06 02:51 PM
04/25/06 02:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
moderncylinder
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
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i was down there, and went to dinner with bucky on friday night. he overlooked this, or he knew about it. who cares?? this is embarassing for bucky and the win went to charlie. im sure after bucky thinks this over he will calm down. i didnt talk to him after he was thrown out, but could you imagine his shame?? what they threw him out for was nothing the really gave him an advantage. if he had another set of carbs on it, he still would have beat everyone that he DID beat. this is between charlie and bucky to get the trophy and that big check back. the track was total crap on saturday and things played out the way they did,, so be it. bucky is nothing less or more in my book because of this. he is a good guy and straight and honest.. period. anyone who is upset that they were taken out by him through eliminations is a baby. his carbs didnt do a damn thing for it. most of you guys on here dont know the entire story, and if you did, might think differnetly. im not going into it because its not productive for anyone.
this is the way i see it....
fastest a/h cars in the country
1. westcott(who cares what carbs)
2. bucky (who cares what carbs)
3. wilkes
4.holton
5.defrank/houser
the rest get so close and guys are working out their combos so its a judgement call. we will see at the next race when they are all together and see how it plays out. jerry caro had the best 60ft, so he had the best working car,, but he didnt run when the track went away.
jeff
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Re: BELLE ROSE SS/AH NEWS AND UPDATES 2006
[Re: moderncylinder]
#20212
04/25/06 02:55 PM
04/25/06 02:55 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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By the simple fact that someone was disqualified, because of a rules violation, they cheated.. Sorry if you do not like the word, but that is just the way it is.
As for a "little cheating" versus "big cheating" - there is no difference.
Some people on this board are tool/die makers, ask them if when they are given a blueprint and it specifies a tolerance of no more than plus.001, and they make a part that is plus.0015, do they get paid?
This is not about Bucky, Charlie, Pancake, Brooks, nor any of the other people that race in the TOP SUPER STOCK class, this is about right and wrong, and stepping up and saying "I was WRONG".
The problem today is that too many people are quick to say "It wasn't my fault". IT IS YOUR FAULT - IT IS YOUR CAR - AND YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.....
If there are no written specifications about something, then you can be creative - but when there are rules, the rules have to be adhered to.
This is not about what NHRA does or doesn't do - nor how much they have let the Stock and Super Stock classes run wild. This is about the respect you show for your fellow competitor and yourself.
RIGHT OR WRONG -- RULES HAVE NO IN BETWEEN !!!
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Re: BELLE ROSE SS/AH NEWS AND UPDATES 2006
[Re: JulieJordan]
#20214
04/25/06 03:09 PM
04/25/06 03:09 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
By the time I got to the track on Sunday Bucky and Charlie were gone. I was stuck in an airport yesterday and missed all the hoopla, I guess. Haven't had access to a computer until last night. What's the deal with the check and trophy? Bucky has them?
Hi Julie, yes bucky kept the check and trophys and left the track with them,feels he won them.so he kept them.
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Re: BELLE ROSE SS/AH NEWS AND UPDATES 2006
#20215
04/25/06 03:54 PM
04/25/06 03:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,504
DFW
mr_340
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,504
DFW
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I'm a little fuzzy about exactly what the variation of the screws were. I read on Marie's that it was how much of the threads stuck out on the side where they are normally staked to prevent them from working loose and falling out. If the carb guy machined them down a little, that almost sounds like blueprinting to me. NHRA said it was illegal, so that is what it is.
Cheating to me is having a 500 cubic inch engine, or aluminum rods or something really blatant. I think the word cheating shows intent to purposefully try to have an advantage. Both would be illegal. I can't see anyone purposefully cheating since their reputation is on the line. I have a friend that got caught with head gaskets that were .002" too thin. Was he cheating? No, he just didn't measure that set even though he had been running that brand for years and they came up too thin. He had a stack of the old ones at Belle Rose to prove it. Yes, he was illegal, but he wasn't cheating as I see it. You bet he'll measure those gaskets every time now.
Knowing a little about production tolerances, I suppose someone with a lot of money could buy 1000 Hemi carbs and find a set of screws that were the shortest and use them and they should be legal. I wonder if Holley will sell the butterfly screws separately?
Stewart should know about cheating. That '73 Missile car was illegal as hell as I see it. From talking with Oldfield, I suspect all of the Missile cars were illegal. Was it cheating, blueprinting or creative interpretation of the rules? Racers push the envelope and sometimes they get caught. I guess it depends on what side of the fence you are on as to whether something is cheating or blueprinting.
Floyd Lippencott IV
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