EPA vs. race cars, if you race and/or build cars, read this.
#2008592
02/09/16 03:34 PM
02/09/16 03:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,289 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
OP
Mr. Helpful
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OP
Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
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Fulton County, PA
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First of all, I know political discussions are frowned upon, BUT this has the potential to ruin the hobby, people's livelihood, aftermarket manufacturers, the entire sport. All of us could become criminals, simply for doing what we do. https://www.sema.org/news/2016/02/08/epa-seeks-to-prohibit-conversion-of-vehicles-into-racecarsI suggest you read this and contact your representatives to express you thoughts on the matter. Moparts, I try to respect the rules. Not trying to start a $%^& storm. This needs to be confronted head on. Thanks.
Last edited by CMcAllister; 02/10/16 01:29 PM. Reason: More specific title
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: If you race and/or build cars, read this.
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2008599
02/09/16 03:46 PM
02/09/16 03:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
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Nebraska
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Only cure for this level of control is chronic lead poisoning to the morons in the EPA. They would rather the population be standing in a food line addicted to Opioids than be free to build whatever they want.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: If you race and/or build cars, read this.
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2008658
02/09/16 05:05 PM
02/09/16 05:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 760 Canada
CTD5.9
super stock
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super stock
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Canada
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These are the best quotes I can find that people have found in the proposed legislature, this is a huge document to go through. EPA is proposing in 40 CFR 1037.601(a)(3) to clarify that the Clean Air Act does not allow any person to disable, remove, or render inoperative (i.e., tamper with) emission controls on a certified motor vehicle for purposes of competition. and Certified motor vehicles and motor vehicle engines and their emission control devices must remain in their certified configuration even if they are used solely for competition or if they become nonroad vehicles or engines”. 80 Fed. Reg. 40138, 40565 (July 13, 2015). Wouldn't this still allow you to race a non emissions certified car? and possibly a purpose built car like a pro mod or a dragster? I would guess that they are attacking chips and cat removal mods.
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Re: If you race and/or build cars, read this.
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2008673
02/09/16 05:32 PM
02/09/16 05:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,537 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Las Vegas
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I am pretty sure removing any federally mandated emissions control equipment is already illegal in the first place. Stuff like this is why you should support SEMA and its member organization. Oh yeah that includes the NHRA
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: If you race and/or build cars, read this.
[Re: CTD5.9]
#2009209
02/10/16 01:47 PM
02/10/16 01:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,289 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
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Mr. Helpful
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OP
Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,289
Fulton County, PA
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Wouldn't this still allow you to race a non emissions certified car? and possibly a purpose built car like a pro mod or a dragster? I would guess that they are attacking chips and cat removal mods. Chips and "test pipes" were addressed years ago. This goes way beyond that.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: If you race and/or build cars, read this.
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2009242
02/10/16 02:52 PM
02/10/16 02:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,289 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
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Mr. Helpful
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OP
Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
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Fulton County, PA
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I am pretty sure removing any federally mandated emissions control equipment is already illegal in the first place. Stuff like this is why you should support SEMA and its member organization. Oh yeah that includes the NHRA As I understand it, modifications to or removing emissions control equipment is illegal for vehicles registered and driven on public roads. Always has been. But there has always been a "legal for off road use only" exemption for race cars and other off road competition and recreational use vehicles that were once federally certified, but are no longer used on public highways, and the parts and pieces used to build such vehicles. That was Congress' intent. EPA intends to eliminate that exemption. Think no more big blocks in slant six Dusters, Stockers or Super Stockers that were not factory race cars, fast "street" cars built on OE bodies, etc. In other words, your '73 Dart or '82 Camaro or '89 Fox body Mustang has to remain as it was built and certified for federal emissions. I have no idea of what they think will happen to all of the cars this will affect. Anyone who has dealt with trying to get a car inspected that had the AIR pump or the cat removed or failed an emissions inspection and had to either fix it, junk it or pay some kind of penalty, can use their imagination. I can assure you, dealing with the EPA will not be like dealing with your buddy down at the shop when you get your state inspection done.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: If you race and/or build cars, read this.
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2009254
02/10/16 03:01 PM
02/10/16 03:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,537 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Las Vegas
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I understand the issues believe me. Removing that equipment has always been a federal violation period. Taking off an air pump, transplanting a Bb where a SB was. Building a HP motor and putting it in a newer car, all those things have been federally illegal for ions. That is nothing new. This does go quite a bit further but also echoes much of the standing law already. I also second what Andy says, these cases routinely get thrown our of court as the EPA oversteps its authority. In many states Smog inspections are state administered at state facilities so no good guy deal there. Most also have a cap on dollar amounts needed to receive a waiver. The key is these are state administered programs not federally run programs.
Like I said before this is the biggest reason to support SEMA and its member organizations. They are the lobbying body for this kind of legislation. Calling your Congressman or Senator is a good idea too, but not sure it will matter given how things are done in this city anymore. I have had to deal with the EPA directly for years in my job working in and for the USAF. There is no reasoning with them, it is there way or the highway, meaning their interpretation of the law as they choose to read it at that particular time by that particular inspector. One of the reasons they loose so many suits is the inherent overstepping of their authority. Very well known in industries that deal directly with the EPA that they rule the world or at least feel they do.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: If you race and/or build cars, read this.
[Re: rapom]
#2009427
02/10/16 06:55 PM
02/10/16 06:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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and of course they have no clue how many job's that they would kill if they succeed in making these decision's stick,,,where do they find these people anyway.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: EPA vs. race cars, if you race and/or build cars, read this.
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2009440
02/10/16 07:31 PM
02/10/16 07:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 150 It's Complicated
HDNMOPERS
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member
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It's Complicated
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Yeah you can bet everyone at the EPA is driving electric cars. Wearing hemp cloths made by hand not from some textile sweatshop powered by burning old tires in some foreign country. They raise hell about nuclear power plants. But they sure don't care about 6000 servicemen on a nuclear powered aircraft carrier. Where they work and live around the reactor 24hrs a day. Its like PEETA pee ons. What the hell do those people eat and drink. You can't tell me there ain't one of them hasn't sneaked off in their leather shoes and as a hamburger. With a EPA guy driving them to the Mcdonald's in a diesel truck with a tuner on it. LOL
Last edited by HDNMOPERS; 02/10/16 07:32 PM.
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Re: If you race and/or build cars, read this.
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2009567
02/10/16 11:23 PM
02/10/16 11:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,537 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,537
Las Vegas
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FWIW Emissions controls started on 1967, so don't think this would only apply to later model stuff...Just saying
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: If you race and/or build cars, read this.
[Re: b1dartsport]
#2009575
02/10/16 11:33 PM
02/10/16 11:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 213 Illinois
gearhead01
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Illinois
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That case/issue was regarding coal burning for electric generation. Different law than the racecar issue. The EPA has more rules/regulations in multiple layers it is near impossible to keep up what they are doing. That is how SEMA missed it initially. Buried in non related paragraphs to camouflage it. John
1971 Satellite Sebring Plus - 14.46 @ 95.43 1977 Road Runner - N/B 11.02@ 119 Drag Radials
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