Hey everyone, need a little help on deciding whats the best setup for a mild 440 build. Right now I have a 383 in my roadrunner thats on its last leg so i want to drop a 440 in it. I only drive it 2 days out of the week when I can but I want a setup thats low maintenace since this is my first muscle car. That being said what would be the best choice? a flat tappet, roller, or solid? I already know I want it to run on pump gas, have aluminum heads (possibly the trick flow), and eddy dual plane intake.

There is no best cam for street use. Easy and low maintenance would suggest you want a hydraulic flat tappet that will accommodate your stock, non adjustable rocker arms. Fortunately there are many cams that will work for you. To answer this question further we will need more info. Are you racing the car at all or is this just a street car? What is your rear end gear ratio? Stock torque converter or aftermarket or manual transmission? Performance goals?

Easy and pretty cheap and runs decent.Summits cams.Ive ran all of them in SBs and BBS.one of the large BB cams is still alive after 30 years.Has a lope to it but still nice street manners and turns on great.really no need to swap tons of parts either.the small cam is just a bit above the factory and also runs decent.For the price they cant be beat.Rocky

Its a 4 speed manual running power brakes. I don't really plan on racing it. Everything is stock on it right now. Rear end is 8 3/4 with 3.23 gears I believe. I just want 500+hp with lots of torque on the low end for some street fun.

500+ hp from a basically stock engine with just a cam, intake and head change is unrealistic IMO. To make that kind of power you're going to need decent compression. What year 440 is it? 72 and up had the pistons so far down in the bore, that they only made maybe 7 or 7.5 to 1 compression. Even swapping on closed chambered heads might give you 8.5 to 1. Not a good recipe for 500 hp. I have a 67 440 with open chambered heads, that makes 9.3 to 1 compression, Summit 6401 cam, Eddy RPM intake that makes right about 400 hp. It's got great street manners and gets with the program.

HAHAHAHA....."I just want 500hp". All the TV shows and Youtube videos about 800hp engines are warping reality.

A bone stock 1970 440 put on the dyno right off the line would make around 335 hp. No B$.

However you can get your number with the right parts. It shouldn't even be that hard. For a street engine a 450 hp engine with a really stout bottom end would feel stronger going from light to light. You can lie about dyno numbers however you like, and many do, or their dyno operators know how to squeeze another 50 or 60 hp out of an engine for the big number.

I'd find Edelbrock's 440 buildup from when they first brought out the Perf RPM heads.

R.

That is doable providing you have the budget since it won't be super cheap. A stock rebuild shortblock with some good flat top pistons at zero deck will be required. You want to shoot for 9.5 or 10:1 compression but you'll need to run premium. If you want to run regular then lower it back down to 9:1 or so.

Add the Trick Flow heads and a Performer RPM intake and a 750 Holley or a 800 cfm Edelbrock and you'll be there. You'll need a hyd roller cam and decent rocker arms which will add $2000 or so to the build. (You might be able to do it with a solid flat tappet and some Crane nodular iron rocker arms but you'll be taking chances on reliability)

I assume you have headers? If not then everything needs to be adjusted for HP manifolds, especially the cam selection.

Go search for the Trick Flow 440 buildup on their website. They made 620 hp with 10.5 compression and open headers and a single plane manifold. Not really a street car build, but it wasn't a race car engine either. So 500 hp is doable, but it is going to be a $8000 engine by the time you're all finished.

The 450 hp engine that Dogdays is talking about is probably $6000. You'll save money by using something like E street heads and a less expensive valve train. I'd still use the Performer RPM and the 800 cfm Edelbrock carb.

Ehh......

I have a stock 346 headed 440 with KB hyperpistons, (9.6 compression) Comp XS282 baby solid that will run power brakes. M1 intake, headers, etc. Very LOW dollar set up. By the MPH calculator makes an honest 425hp. This is a no nonsense 11 second motor in a a body. Still high 11s in an avg weight b/e body

Add a decent set of heads, Eddy RPM for example and your at 500 with ease.

Same shortblock with a decent set of 452s makes an honest 525hp. Low 11s in a heavy (3800) b body. 10 second deal in a A body.

It gets really confusing to me...why people think you need to spend $$$ to make decent power. I don't get it....

The numbers I posted are accurate. If you take a 440 core into a machine shop and ask for a rebuild with new pistons, Edelbrock heads, new intake, new carb, new rocker arms, new cam & kit, etc. it will be $6000 by the time you're done. I've seen several engines just like this go out the door so far this year and that is what they cost. If you want to step up to CNC ported heads and hyd roller camshaft then bring some more money since those parts cost more.

I don't have the 440 yet. It's a stock 383 in there right now. I just got the car a year ago and want to get more out of it. I thought about pulling the 383 out and build that up but I know I'd probably regret not doing the 440 later down the road. Especially if it'll cost about the same to build.

Keep in mind.... Building 500 horsepower leads to spending more money than just building the motor. There are other things to consider. Not the least of which is that you currently have a 4 speed and an 8-3/4". 500 HP is hard on 8-3/4's even with an Automatic (Don't ask me how I know). With a 4-speed, you might as well plan on investing in a Dana before you even start on the motor.

Ma put Dana's behind stock 440/4-speed combos.

Forget the hp numbers.If you take a stock/rebuilt 440 and add headers,intake,better hyd cam,good carb,and a set of unported alum heads you will have so much more hp and torque than you do now the number won't matter.

If you aren't going to race it then hp does not matter.Basic bolt on upgrades will keep it "low maintenance" and be more than quick enough.

Thanks, you guys have given me some good insight. I did get caught up in the numbers game.

We'll keep ya straight! welcome aboard Gerald

These guys here know so much more than me its rediculous. What I will add though is that if you are going to be doing a complete rebuild, then doing a stroker is a good idea as the cost difference is pretty negligable since you'll be doing machine work any way. You're already talking about buying heads, intake and carb, so go for it. You'll have more torque for the street car, which is what you'll need more than HP, and you can get those higher numbers with a less radical cam (not really an issue with a 440 anyway because of your starting cubic inches) than you would without the stroker.

I did a smallblock, 360 to 408 stroker on a magnum motor. After feeling the difference in power in the street car rpm range, I will never have a non-stroker motor again if Im paying for it to be built because the price was the same. And if you do get the itch to go more to the max on power later, your base is there and wont have to be redone.

Just my

It's called reality. Need vs. what someone tells you that you want. Take any running forged crank 440 ('cause you have a stick and it's easiest to start with), add a mild hydraulic flat tappet with matching valve springs, and go drive the wheels off it. Once you start getting into a rebuilding frame of mind you're into $6k plus like Andy says. You will normally get more from spending more, but honestly it sounds like the mild 440 upgrade will be enough for you. At least for now.

To the smart guys (no sarcasm intended): Since the OP is starting out with a 383, might he be better off stroking a 400???

OP, thanks for getting smart about numbers. I remember my first backroad pass in my cousin's 383 Road Runner, 4-speed, completely stock. I was disappointed, it didn't feel that strong. So I understand about wanting more. A 440 will get you more, that's for sure.

IMHO you'd get plenty stroking the 383 that you have right now.

Why change blocks when a 4.25" stroke will get you 489 cubic inches? That's over 100 more cubic inches, roughly 125 lb-ft more torque. I'd suggest doing the shortblock first, keeping stock heads and intake. Those can be added later as your budget allows. And no, it won't hurt the shortblock to be choked on airflow for a while. Your stock heads were used in the same year on all 383s and 440s.

If you can find a 440 in good running condition it'd probably be cheaper, that is if you can keep yourself from doing any more than a cam swap. The problem is that 440s were last used about 37 years ago, and most of them were built with compression in the low 8s. So they're not perfect either.

R.

I agree

When I was having my first "hot" motor built (by a buddy), I wanted to know how much HP it would make. He told me that for the street, and at the track, you want torque to get a heavy car moving. Mine is a '69 Road Runner. He was dead right. You'll want driveability to be good, and won't want to sacrifice it for a little extra ET at the track, since that is not a goal of your's.

That being said, you have two choices if you want to add more than you currently have. You could add a bigger cam, better pistons, and some more rear gear to your current combo. It would, no doubt give you more kick in the pants.

If you went stroker (either with your 383, a 400, or a 440 block) you will spend lots. I just finished a 496" 440-based build using 440 Source parts. It runs fantastic. When it came time to selecting the camshaft, I was originally going to go with a low-maintenance, hydraulic flat tappet design. After contemplating it for quite a while, I came to the conclusion that it was worth it to me to spend the money on a solid roller cam. It added some cost to the build, but I already had the roller lifters and adjustable rockers. I couldn't come to grips with spending that much money on a new long block, and then choking it down with a baby cam. Now the car runs mid-11's through the mufflers in street trim. I couldn't be happier, and the extra money spent on the roller cam isn't even a thought any longer.

With regards to torque, you build torque when you mechanically slow down RPM. Assuming your current engine makes around 300HP at the crank, switching from your current 3.23:1 gears to 3.91:1's would have a huge impact on "seat of the pants" feel. It would greatly increase the highway RPM that you'd see though, so you'll need to make that decision.

This is the same principal that applies when riding a bike with gears. I make one unit of "Tom HP". That same amount of HP, when slowed down by using gear ratio (putting a bicycle into 1st gear) allows my "Tom HP" to carry my 240 lb butt up a hill. Using the same "Tom HP", but putting the bike into 10th gear will not be conducive to pulling me up the hill. In this example, the "Tom HP" is equivalent to the existing HP your engine makes. The example of switching gears on the bike is related to swapping your rear end gearing. I hope I didn't confuse you, but you may get the most "bang for your buck" by swapping a center section on your existing combo.

One thing to consider is that trans, 23 spline? If the tires hook... Reason Chrysler put Danas & 18 splines behind the "stock" 440s even with the skinny tires of that time. I like the idea of a 440 crank in the 383 block -426 cubes or the 4.15 crank complete stroker kits. Ask thumper about his

I have been 9.30's on a 23 spline box. You can't have the clutch beat the parts to death. The wrong clutch will destroy anything you put behind it.

.

It may impact "seat of the pants" feel, but it may not actually change et at track much...

I find that gear selection is not near as important with an even decent built 440. Further, the lighter the car, the less impact on et.

Leave the gears and transmission alone.
Forget the 440.

Order a stroker kit. Get a good streetable cam. Save the pocket change for the machine work.

When the money and parts are available, yank the 383 and get the bottom end done. Put it back together and enjoy the ride.

When the money is available for Eddy heads you can swap them out in an afternoon. The same goes for the intake and carb.

Playing with the low deck motor gives you more room to access the plugs and install headers and also keep the weight off the nose of the car.

That's alot of options. I found a standard bore 440 block for $500 with the main caps and bolts.It has already been cleaned, shot peen'd and magnaflux' at the machine shop. I already have an Eddy rpm intake for a 440. I think I read somewhere that the heads from a 383/440 are interchangeable (temporary). Then I found a good deal on an eagle rotating assembly but it's only for a 446 for under 1500. Am I headed in the right direction piecing this bottom end together? I just don't know what size flat tappet cam to go with.

Sure, that will work. If you already have the rotating kit and heads and intake then you're on your way. Hard to go wrong with the Mopar Perf .528 solid flat tappet cam. It will have some lope at idle in a 446 but it won't be really rough. It will pull to 6000+ rpm once you put the Edelbrock (or Trick Flow) heads on there.

you should be able to get a complete 440 for $500.00, next don't get the 446 rotating assembly unless you know the block with clean up at whatever oversize the pistons in the kit are.

yes you can use the 383 heads on the 440. good on the intake.

Depending on what your budget is, I like the idea of stroking the 383, buying aluminum heads, water pump and intake. Lessens the weight on the nose a bit. You can build it with compression that will run on pump gas, choose a nice cam/carb combo and make plenty of HP for smoking the tires at the drop of hat. I think you will be totally thrilled. Those stroker motors are no slouch.

If you don't like that idea, plenty of 440 recommendations above. But, if you start hammering a stock 23 spline tranny and 8 3/4 with power launches, you will likely break something. If you don't hammer the crap out of it, then it will probably live and do just fine.

Doesn't sound bad at all, assuming it's quality stuff.

The heads interchange from 350/361/383/413/426W/444. Valves and chamber sizes varied in the early to mid 60s but after that there's really no difference in performance.

There are alot of smart people on here and many know alot about cams. But most of us are not pro's with cam selecting meaning we dont do it everyday like some pro's. Sure I can suggest a cam as I feel I know cams pretty good but myself I had a pro spec my last cam thats in my 63 Sport Fury. I wanted a cam to make good power and have a nice rump rump in the idle and Dwayne Porter speced me a cam that did that and he also made it keep my cyl pressure low enough to run fine on pump gas with the right valve timing specs. Dwayne is a pro and does cam selecting and specs everyday and he is very good at it. Many of us here are good with cams but most of us are not pro's as we dont do it for a living everyday like Dwayne Porter does. I would suggest you give Dwayne Porter a call (802-951-1955) and talk to him about your cam. It did not cost me any more going through him and I got a cam speced to my combo. I use a solid flat tappet and it works very good for my combo. It dont cost you anything to give him a call and talk to him. Ron