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What am I looking at here ? #1985956
01/08/16 12:00 AM
01/08/16 12:00 AM
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South Australia
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Retroboy Offline OP
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Howdy new here and impressed with some of the knowledge. This is a KB190 piston from a 360. The motor has done next to no work maybe an hour running time and had spun a bearing. I've had the crank ground and also had the rods resized and have just noticed this? Is it from being knocked around on the way to the machine shop, being roughly handled some where or engine running damage? The engine is less that 10.5 :1 open chamber J heads and was running on methanol with around 36 deg ignition. There are two photo's attached
Cheers
Tony




Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: Retroboy] #1985959
01/08/16 12:05 AM
01/08/16 12:05 AM
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British Columbia
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toddd Offline
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What do the bearings look like?. I had the same "look" on a few of my pistons when my engine detonated. It also showed up on the main caps and block mating surface. Really shows up in the bearings.

Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: toddd] #1985968
01/08/16 12:22 AM
01/08/16 12:22 AM
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South Australia
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Retroboy Offline OP
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Originally Posted By toddd
What do the bearings look like?. I had the same "look" on a few of my pistons when my engine detonated. It also showed up on the main caps and block mating surface. Really shows up in the bearings.


Spun a couple of rod bearings, metal through the engine, lost cam lobes etc. Mains looked OK all things considered.

Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: Retroboy] #1985974
01/08/16 12:27 AM
01/08/16 12:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Detonation will do that, what do the cylinder walls look like in the hole where that piston was? Are the piston skirts good or mark up or tore up?


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: Retroboy] #1985986
01/08/16 12:41 AM
01/08/16 12:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Originally Posted By Retroboy
Originally Posted By toddd
What do the bearings look like?. I had the same "look" on a few of my pistons when my engine detonated. It also showed up on the main caps and block mating surface. Really shows up in the bearings.


Spun a couple of rod bearings, metal through the engine, lost cam lobes etc. Mains looked OK all things considered.


JMO here but you lost the cam lobes first.. metal
got into the bearings and the piston was just damaged
in the aftermath... a cam doesnt lose the lobes in a
moment it will take a bit of time.. again.. JMO
wave

Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1985998
01/08/16 12:53 AM
01/08/16 12:53 AM
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Posts: 11
South Australia
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Retroboy Offline OP
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Bores were OK but I can't go and have a second look 'coz I had the block hot tanked and have sinced honed it. Funny you should ask about the skirts because they were marked up I figured it was trash from the oil so I just cleaned them up with 1200 wet & dry this morning which is when I nboticed this damage?

Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1986008
01/08/16 01:02 AM
01/08/16 01:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
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South Australia
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Retroboy Offline OP
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Originally Posted By MR_P_BODY
Originally Posted By Retroboy
Originally Posted By toddd
What do the bearings look like?. I had the same "look" on a few of my pistons when my engine detonated. It also showed up on the main caps and block mating surface. Really shows up in the bearings.


Spun a couple of rod bearings, metal through the engine, lost cam lobes etc. Mains looked OK all things considered.


JMO here but you lost the cam lobes first.. metal
got into the bearings and the piston was just damaged
in the aftermath... a cam doesnt lose the lobes in a
moment it will take a bit of time.. again.. JMO
wave


Been a few years since I've played cars and have never had an issue like this but now I've found all about how they've taken all the stuff we need out of oil. Expensive lesson. How does the oil path go in a Chrysler - Oil pump to lifters then camshaft to crank mains then rods? The rod bearings are way worse than the mains including the back of the bearings? Cam bearing were chopped out as well but they could have been there since 1972 ??

Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: Retroboy] #1986021
01/08/16 01:20 AM
01/08/16 01:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Originally Posted By Retroboy
Originally Posted By MR_P_BODY
Originally Posted By Retroboy
Originally Posted By toddd
What do the bearings look like?. I had the same "look" on a few of my pistons when my engine detonated. It also showed up on the main caps and block mating surface. Really shows up in the bearings.


Spun a couple of rod bearings, metal through the engine, lost cam lobes etc. Mains looked OK all things considered.


JMO here but you lost the cam lobes first.. metal
got into the bearings and the piston was just damaged
in the aftermath... a cam doesnt lose the lobes in a
moment it will take a bit of time.. again.. JMO
wave


Been a few years since I've played cars and have never had an issue like this but now I've found all about how they've taken all the stuff we need out of oil. Expensive lesson. How does the oil path go in a Chrysler - Oil pump to lifters then camshaft to crank mains then rods? The rod bearings are way worse than the mains including the back of the bearings? Cam bearing were chopped out as well but they could have been there since 1972 ??


I believe the lobe thrash was falling down on the
rods.. then into the oil, pump, filter, lifter journals,
mains, rods and from the mains to the cam up to the rockers
wave

Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: Retroboy] #1986086
01/08/16 02:56 AM
01/08/16 02:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096
Australia
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ozymaxwedge Offline
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On Meth with less than 10.5-1 ? I thought that you needed 13+ for Meth ?


1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda
Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: Retroboy] #1986097
01/08/16 03:10 AM
01/08/16 03:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
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Las Vegas
Sure looks like foreign object damage to me. When is hard to say now but clean it up and run it


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: Al_Alguire] #1986101
01/08/16 03:20 AM
01/08/16 03:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
Sure looks like foreign object damage to me. When is hard to say now but clean it up and run it


The second pic says that to me also... thats rough looking
on the edge like something was banging on it.. not like
detonation which tends to be smoother(but not always)...
but your right.. a little clean up and run that one again
I've run worse than that one
wave

Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: ozymaxwedge] #1986102
01/08/16 03:24 AM
01/08/16 03:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Romeo MI
Originally Posted By ozymaxwedge
On Meth with less than 10.5-1 ? I thought that you needed 13+ for Meth ?


Meth does like higher pressure.. but we had meth
cars before the E-85 cars with production compression
and they worked fine.. the only thing was the corrosion
so we changed to E-85 instead
wave

Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: Retroboy] #1986161
01/08/16 09:22 AM
01/08/16 09:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,834
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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What does the upper groove of the ring land look like? Does the piston move freely on the rod? If these two things are OK I'd run it.
Doug

Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: dvw] #1986322
01/08/16 03:22 PM
01/08/16 03:22 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,977
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
top fuel
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I'm not saying that it has anything to do with the issue but, a hypereutectic piston like that needs extra top ring gap. might want to check that also. I have personally seen guys break that chunk of the piston out.

Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: Retroboy] #1986339
01/08/16 03:53 PM
01/08/16 03:53 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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Kalispell Mt.
Might be just barely touching the edge of the chamber in those heads, that is one of the closest points in a J head and unless the chamber is polished it will leave a mark like that where it looks like course sand. That is the area where the piston rocks up and down the most so tight clearance will show up there first.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: What am I looking at here ? [Re: Retroboy] #1986342
01/08/16 03:54 PM
01/08/16 03:54 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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It don't look like it came from the oily side of the piston, may have got some tiny piece of debris trapped in the for a few revs.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!









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