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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1963750
12/05/15 02:07 PM
12/05/15 02:07 PM
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Memphis
HemiRick Offline
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Engines only wear appreciably when the fuel mixture is off....Lean and they run too hot....Rich washes oil off cyl walls....I think Fuel infection is the single biggest reason.


Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1963757
12/05/15 02:19 PM
12/05/15 02:19 PM
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Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
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Fuel injection, better rings and overdrive.

Less fuel washing down the cylinder walls, less ring wear, less high rpm operation on the highway.

2.2 engines came carb'd, TBI and Turbocharged.

The turbo engines came with PFI and better rings. The turbo engines held up far better than the carb and TBI engines bore wise.




"I think its got a hemi"
Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1963959
12/05/15 08:04 PM
12/05/15 08:04 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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Lead in gasoline is not metalic, it is a compound chemical with the lead only being one ingredient sort of like how hydrogen is one ingredient in water, the other being oxygen, neither would work well in your cooling system by themself but combined make a good chemical compound for cooling the engine.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: kentj340] #1964097
12/06/15 12:39 AM
12/06/15 12:39 AM
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Richmond, Indiana
19swinger70 Offline
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Originally Posted By kentj340
Here's what an engine designer says.

“The California Air Resources Board and the E.P.A. have been very focused on making sure that catalytic converters perform within 96 percent of their original capability at 100,000 miles,” said Jagadish Sorab, technical leader for engine design at Ford Motor. “Because of this, we needed to reduce the amount of oil being used by the engine to reduce the oil reaching the catalysts.

“Fifteen years ago, piston rings would show perhaps 50 microns of wear over the useful life of a vehicle,” Mr. Sorab said, referring to the engine part responsible for sealing combustion in the cylinder. “Today, it is less than 10 microns. As a benchmark, a human hair is 200 microns thick.

“Materials are much better,” Mr. Sorab continued. “We can use very durable, diamondlike carbon finishes to prevent wear. We have tested our newest breed of EcoBoost engines, in our F-150 pickup, for 250,000 miles. When we tear the engines down, we cannot see any evidence of wear.”

-----

“Competition is part of it,” said Peter Egan, a former auto mechanic and now editor at large of Road & Track magazine. “Japanese cars kind of upped everyone’s game a bit. With some exceptions, the engines would go a long time without burning oil or having other major problems.”

Hyundai and Kia, the South Korean carmakers, now include 100,000-mile/10-year warranties on their cars’ powertrains. If a relatively abusive driver can count on no major mechanical failures before 100,000 miles, a careful owner can — and does — expect his car to go much farther.

“My parents, with their ’56 Buick, used to have the wheel bearings repacked with grease before a long trip. Nobody does that anymore. The lubricants are better, the machining is better.”

from:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/automobiles/as-cars-are-kept-longer-200000-is-new-100000.html?_r=0


My Magnum with the 3.5 v6 uses about 1.5 quarts between 5000 mile oil changes. It has done that since new- and has 182,000 on it now.


1970 340 swinger. sublime
1967 barracuda fastback BB
55 Plymouth Project
Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1964219
12/06/15 08:44 AM
12/06/15 08:44 AM
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Northern Calyfornua
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Remembering when oil/filter(some cars oil filters were factory options) change and 'grease' jobs were scheduled for 1 to 2K intervals on all new cars. Working in gas stations as a kid.

Much has changed.

Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1964267
12/06/15 11:53 AM
12/06/15 11:53 AM
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Tulsa OK
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Im not working on late model stuff everyday but I have noticed that most of the later model engines have much higher oil capacities. My HEMI Ram truck took 7 qts,my wife 3.5L V6 Edge takes 5.5 which seems like a lot for the size of the engine. More oil keeps it cooler and cleaner, I am sure that also plays into the longer oil change intervals.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1964699
12/07/15 12:23 AM
12/07/15 12:23 AM
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Tacoma, Washington USA
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Adam71Charger Offline OP
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How many miles are you guys seeing from b/rb rebuilds that use Chromoly rings, updated bearings, hypereutectic pistons, fuel injection, synthetic oil and overdrive transmission?

Also, Can the cylinder walls be "hardened" without using sleeves?

Very interesting debate in leaded fuel! I always was taught it helped decrease valve seat wear, and was only gotten rid of because it of environmental impact.

Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1964713
12/07/15 12:45 AM
12/07/15 12:45 AM
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Utah and Alaska
astjp2 Offline
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Well my little daily driver runs 3500 rpms at 75 mph and gets about 36 mpg, so it runs a lot higher RPMs than many of the larger displacement engines that have more torque. It only has 105 hp so it has to make up the lack of torque with RPMs. Tim


1941 Taylorcraft
1968 Charger
1994 Wrangler
1998 Wrangler
2008 Kia Rio
2017 Jetta

I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1964732
12/07/15 01:14 AM
12/07/15 01:14 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,385
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Online content
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Originally Posted By Adam71Charger
What are the main reasons that newer high performance engines can go much longer without a total rebuild than older engines we build? For example, the 485hp SRT challenger motor compared to a fresh built 500 hp aluminium headed 440 running less than 10.5:1 compression. . In most cases the 440 would need a rebuild or at least bearings and maube rings at a much shorter interval than the 392


Main reason....Tolerances and capability.....plain and simple.

I worked at one of the largest US based engine plants in the country....Control the tolerances thru in-process gauging, and it will last...Knowing what tolerances have to be held is one thing, measuring them & holding them is another.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Grizzly] #1964918
12/07/15 02:55 PM
12/07/15 02:55 PM
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Originally Posted By Grizzly
Without a doubt overdrive transmissions is the biggest factor.

EFI is better yes, but even they have to get run out on the highway to "blow the carbon out" every now and then.


I don't know about the significance of overdrive. Lots of new 4cyl cars still buzz at 3000rpm down the highway and they have to still meet the same standards of longevity as lower revving engines.

Also, if you've ever worked on an engine with carbon build up, you'll see why a full throttle run on the highway isn't blowing anything out. Don't know where that myth came from....

Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1964935
12/07/15 03:37 PM
12/07/15 03:37 PM
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Oakdale CT
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Originally Posted By DaytonaTurbo

I don't know about the significance of overdrive. Lots of new 4cyl cars still buzz at 3000rpm down the highway and they have to still meet the same standards of longevity as lower revving engines.


4 cylinders tend to have light pistons and rods which reduces loads on the bearings. 3000 rpm is nothing for a 2.2 and still turning 500 rpm less than my Duster cranking down the highway at the same speed.




"I think its got a hemi"
Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1965009
12/07/15 05:30 PM
12/07/15 05:30 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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Those little 4 cyls also have very short stroke so the piston speed is not that high.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1965120
12/07/15 09:05 PM
12/07/15 09:05 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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Pinion snubber-angle has to be set right also

Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1965187
12/07/15 10:59 PM
12/07/15 10:59 PM
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Maryland
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I had a 1985 Nissan 300ZX that I put 315,000 miles on with factory recommended maintenance, i.e., 3000 mile oil changes. I finally let it go because it failed a state emission test after 25 years. I currently have a 2000 Toyota Camry V6 that has 318,000 miles and passed it's last emission test and is still going strong. My guess is that lubricants are much better and the metallurgy of engine components also has something to do with it.

My $.02.

Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: ro23_j] #1965216
12/07/15 11:31 PM
12/07/15 11:31 PM
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Rittman Ohio
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Originally Posted By ro23_j
I had a 1985 Nissan 300ZX that I put 315,000 miles on with factory recommended maintenance, i.e., 3000 mile oil changes. I finally let it go because it failed a state emission test after 25 years. I currently have a 2000 Toyota Camry V6 that has 318,000 miles and passed it's last emission test and is still going strong. My guess is that lubricants are much better and the metallurgy of engine components also has something to do with it.

My $.02.

Most import engines are assembled with select fit bearings and rings.They measure the bore and crank journals and install the correct bearings and pistons. Although I really have to question the use of low tension rings lately though. Oil consumption is an issue with some Toyota 4 cylinder engines and I have been doing quite a few ring jobs lately. They have changed the piston design on the new ones I am installing.
I built my 493 s it will go over 100k easily up

Gus beer

rear view savoy.jpg

64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1965367
12/08/15 02:13 AM
12/08/15 02:13 AM
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Tacoma, Washington USA
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Adam71Charger Offline OP
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What are low tension rings?

Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1965621
12/08/15 03:26 PM
12/08/15 03:26 PM
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Columbia, CT
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Better everything. Electronic engine controls, more accurate engineering and design, better casting technology, better machining ability, lower rpm operating ranges. All these are just normal technological evolution. As far as the single biggest factor? Over drive. You can seal it better, make it tighter, oil it better, and be perfect in metering, and there are still only so many trips up and down a bore before it's not longer able to be efficient at it.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1965632
12/08/15 03:57 PM
12/08/15 03:57 PM
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New York
B4OPEC Offline
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I'd like to hear more about Lead vs. lead free gas. I always thought it was a lubricant for the valve train and valve seats. Today they use "hardened" valve seats eliminating the need for lead in gasoline, but my 340 does not have hardened seats I was told I need to put a lead additive in to prevent wear.

Moparts Mythbusters.... What's the true story?


Bob
1970 Challenger 340
2011 Charger RT
2007 Mustang GT
Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: Adam71Charger] #1965664
12/08/15 04:39 PM
12/08/15 04:39 PM
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Rittman Ohio
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Rittman Ohio
Originally Posted By Adam71Charger
What are low tension rings?


Low tension rings put less pressure on the cylinder wall and create less friction. That is good for a high performance application where engines are routinely torn down for inspection. They seem to loose their tension after about 80-100K in a daily driver. The oil rails let oil past when they stick in the ring grooves of the piston and and the engine starts to use oil.
Some car companies are using the low tension rings because it makes for a very efficient air pump when it's new and you get better fuel economy and you can raise your fleet economy numbers.

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older? [Re: B4OPEC] #1965670
12/08/15 04:45 PM
12/08/15 04:45 PM
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Rittman Ohio
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Originally Posted By B4OPEC
I'd like to hear more about Lead vs. lead free gas. I always thought it was a lubricant for the valve train and valve seats. Today they use "hardened" valve seats eliminating the need for lead in gasoline, but my 340 does not have hardened seats I was told I need to put a lead additive in to prevent wear.

Moparts Mythbusters.... What's the true story?


link http://www.history.com/this-day-in-histo...in-auto-engines

Some of the explanation in there

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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