When installing a cam...advance it? Retard it? Help.
#1960118
11/30/15 05:17 AM
11/30/15 05:17 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,894 Mira Loma, CA
69B3GT
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,894
Mira Loma, CA
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Ok, little background info to get everyone up to speed. I just recently picked up a 77 440 out of a truck. Nothing special, low mileage that sat outside. Guy threw in a brand new .474 purple shaft and some 1.6ration PRW roller rockers. All for 100. Couldnt pass it up.
Well, I got the motor apart and everything looks great....except a hole in a piston. So a quick trip to summit...46 dollar piston, timing set, lifters and gaskets im almost ready to re-assemble this thing.
The timing set I boug has notches for either retarding or advancing the cam from 2-8 degrees.
Should I install the cam by lining up the dots? Advance it? Im lost as to what to do.
Its gonna be an 8-1 906 headed motor since this is what ive pieced together for very little money.
8-1 compression, .474 purple shaft, undecided on stock rockers or the 1.6 ratio (may just sell them) rpm air gap, 750 holley DP. Not looking to make huge numbers, its a budget motor that I have no idea what im going to do with.
So any advice on where to install the cam, which rockers I should use and any guesses on what kind of power this pig will make? Thanks in advance guys.
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Re: When installing a cam...advance it? Retard it? Help.
[Re: 69B3GT]
#1960167
11/30/15 11:51 AM
11/30/15 11:51 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487 Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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I went with the Hughes whiplash in my 440. it is great daily driver made to work with the low comp ratio.
once I got the dist recurved and initial of 18* with 18* of mech it turned into a beast.
sounds like a funny car at idle but drives like a stock BB with attitude on the street in my truck.
LSA 107* IC 102* dur@.050 232*/245* lift 516/516 with 1.5 ratio 550/550 with 1.6 ratio
installed straight up running a stock low stall TC and 2.76 gears turning 29x15x15 M/Ts LOL! 12.5 mpgs 55=2000 rpm
Last edited by scratchnfotraction; 11/30/15 12:03 PM.
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Re: When installing a cam...advance it? Retard it? Help.
[Re: 69B3GT]
#1960178
11/30/15 12:21 PM
11/30/15 12:21 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,163 CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,163
CT
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Unless you check it with a degree wheel its just a guess. I'd use the 2 or 4 degree advanced keyway if just guessing. But I'd try to buy or borrow the tools to degree it. When it doesn't run that impressive the first thing everyone will tell you to do is degree the cam.
Sell the PRW rockers, use the money to buy correct length pushrods if needed and/or valve springs (definitely needed), and use the stock rockers.
With an RPM intake and 1.75 inch headers I'd guess that it would make about 350 horsepower tuned up nice. In an A body with sticky tires, 4.10s, and 3000 stall it would be a good runner.
Last edited by GTX MATT; 11/30/15 12:27 PM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: When installing a cam...advance it? Retard it? Help.
[Re: 69B3GT]
#1960210
11/30/15 01:38 PM
11/30/15 01:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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use the 4 deg slot & that is 4 crank degrees even tho the squares/triangles & their reference descrip are on the cam gear (which as you know turns at 1/2 the crank amt) cuz all crank degreeing/anything related to that is done/measured in crank degrees on the dampener. when done dial in the dist subsystems: initial/total/springs/the can (if used & I would) IN ORDER. I had a low comp 440/509 MP cam (not a good combo but I was young and learning) & I milled the 906 heads 60 & adv it 4 deg and it woke it up
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: When installing a cam...advance it? Retard it? Help.
[Re: 69B3GT]
#1960242
11/30/15 02:59 PM
11/30/15 02:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,230 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,230
Bend,OR USA
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/30/15 03:00 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: When installing a cam...advance it? Retard it? Help.
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1960262
11/30/15 03:30 PM
11/30/15 03:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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I agree with Cab, I would not purchase a purple shaft cam & if you can degree or learn how to, it is highly recommended.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: When installing a cam...advance it? Retard it? Help.
[Re: 69B3GT]
#1960355
11/30/15 06:40 PM
11/30/15 06:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,163 CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,163
CT
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Not hard to degree them at all, instructions all over the net and always help here. Just need the wheel and a dial indicator. And once you do it once and have it down you'll do it all the time.
Last edited by GTX MATT; 11/30/15 06:40 PM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: When installing a cam...advance it? Retard it? Help.
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1960405
11/30/15 08:09 PM
11/30/15 08:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 960 Chicago
PurpleBeeper
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 960
Chicago
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Unless you check it with a degree wheel its just a guess. I'd use the 2 or 4 degree advanced keyway if just guessing. But I'd try to buy or borrow the tools to degree it. When it doesn't run that impressive the first thing everyone will tell you to do is degree the cam.
Sell the PRW rockers, use the money to buy correct length pushrods if needed and/or valve springs (definitely needed), and use the stock rockers.
With an RPM intake and 1.75 inch headers I'd guess that it would make about 350 horsepower tuned up nice. In an A body with sticky tires, 4.10s, and 3000 stall it would be a good runner. I have to agree with GTX Matt.... cams can be advanced or retarded from the manufacturer. My purple 292/509 turned out to be 5-degrees retarded out of the box. Just degree it and set it up as designed (or very close) IMO.
70 Roadrunner convt. street car
440+6, NOS, 4-spd, SS springs
'96 Mustang GT convt. street car
'04 4.6 SOHC, NOS, auto, lowered
"Officer, that button is for short on-ramps"
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Re: When installing a cam...advance it? Retard it? Help.
[Re: 69B3GT]
#1960435
11/30/15 08:54 PM
11/30/15 08:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,230 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,230
Bend,OR USA
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If you do degree the cam start at the intake lifter first, once you get that down then move up to the valve retainer and check the LSA on both the intake first and once you have the cam where you want the intake lobe center then check the exhaust lobe center the reason I'm advocating that is to verify that the cam is ground on the LSA the cam card says it is I've had more than one cam ground wrong on the LSA, once you fight that war you will always verify the LSA on both If the cam is ground on a 108 LSA then when the intake lobe is advanced to 4 degrees advance and is at 104 max lift after top dead center the exhaust lobe should be in at 112 before top dead center for max lift If it, the exhaust lobe, is at 114 then the cam is not ground on 108 LSA IHTHs BTW, back in the days of the Direct Connection program Mopar sold the Purple Shaft 484 Street Hemi grinds for all their V8, after hearing many street people complaining about its lack of vacume at idle and the very choppy idle, lack of bottom end and so on they ended up adding the later "484 grind" non Street Hemi grind for the B and RB wedges I've never ran one of them but I do hear good things about that cam
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/30/15 11:27 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: When installing a cam...advance it? Retard it? Help.
[Re: 69B3GT]
#1960455
11/30/15 09:16 PM
11/30/15 09:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245 Between a rock & a hard place
cudadoug
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
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Well the cam was given to me with the purchase of the motor so I figured id run it, its new in the box still. I have a degree wheel and tools to degree it, just lacking the knowledge. The car already has a bs 440 in it that will be going the boosted route so this motor wont be going in the car and I need another project like I need a bullet to the head honestly. Kinda working with what I got deal. I will degree the cam and install it at 106. Not trying to break any records on power but I have access to do it on the cheap and possibly have a decent running motor for very cheap. Ill sell the rockers (theyre already listed on here anyways) and run the stock ones. Thanks to everyone that replied. I was kinda aiming in the dark on this one. If you have the tools, you're 75% there already! Watch this: Yea, it's a chevvvvy but the same logic applies, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cNoVRLb73c
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