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rolling resistance #193687
01/14/09 07:13 PM
01/14/09 07:13 PM
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morrisville, pa
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skajm Offline OP
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How can I decrease the roll resistance in my R/C? My work van a ford e250, if you put it in neutral it rolls longer than my wife quad cab 1500 which rolls better than my R/C. All vehicles at same speed and put in neutral at same spot. Any ideals???

Joe

Re: rolling resistance [Re: skajm] #193688
01/14/09 08:02 PM
01/14/09 08:02 PM
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Western NC
68Bullit Offline
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How do ya like your E-250? Mine has been a great work vehicle. Over 155,000 miles and still running strong. Is your van older, and have alot more miles than your 1500? Less pad to rotor contact maybe???

Re: rolling resistance [Re: 68Bullit] #193689
01/14/09 08:08 PM
01/14/09 08:08 PM
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Nampa, ID
None2Slow Offline
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Look at the wheel bearings, tires (not just the width, but the make and pressures), brake pad friction, brake drums, gear ratios, gear oil viscosity, aerodynamics and just sheer weight the vehicles. You need to look at all parts involved in the rotation of the wheels, not just the vehicle make and models.

Re: rolling resistance [Re: None2Slow] #193690
01/14/09 08:56 PM
01/14/09 08:56 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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The rolling resistance of each(front) tire/wheel/bearing assy & especially the rolling resistance of the rear rims/tires(the whole axle). I'd jack em up & check the difference in resistance in each one & if they ARE similar that'd lead me to believe that wind resistance/aerodynamics was the main difference.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: rolling resistance [Re: RapidRobert] #193691
01/14/09 09:23 PM
01/14/09 09:23 PM
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St. Charles, MO
wingman Offline
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I agree with with everything said above, with one addition--what speed are you comparing at?

At high speed, aerodynamics are probably your biggest factor in slowing your vehicle down.

At lowers speeds, I think you'll find that tire to pavement friction is your biggest contributor to rolling resistance (especially if you're running big slicks at low TP.

All the "good" things about slicks that give us good traction (friction) off the line, are the same "bad" things which cause higher rolling resistance than a passenger car with thin, high TP tires.


1969 Dodge Coronet Super Bee 383 A4
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 440 FC7 (sold)
Re: rolling resistance [Re: wingman] #193692
01/14/09 09:37 PM
01/14/09 09:37 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

At lowers speeds, I think you'll find that tire to pavement friction is your biggest contributor to rolling resistance




live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: rolling resistance [Re: skajm] #193693
01/14/09 11:16 PM
01/14/09 11:16 PM
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central IL
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myduster360 Offline
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Quote:

All vehicles at same speed and put in neutral at same spot. Any ideals???




Yeah, its Newton's 1st Law causing it.

You're chasing ghosts. Heavier vehicals will have more inertia than a lighter one, when coasting from the same speed, thus heavier vehicals will coast longer. It has little to do with comparative rolling resistances. Well not directly anyway. All 3 probably have very similiar rolling restances, but the heavier the vehical is, the LESS it is slowed by it.

Add wieght to your R/C to bring it to a curb wieght equal to the QuadCab and/or E250 and retest. I doubt you'll find much difference in the coasting distances then.

"Problem" solved

Re: rolling resistance [Re: myduster360] #193694
01/15/09 12:09 AM
01/15/09 12:09 AM
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Rochester HIlls, MI
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Blue66Charger Offline
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Best and quickest place to start is tire inflation!

Re: rolling resistance [Re: Blue66Charger] #193695
01/15/09 01:18 AM
01/15/09 01:18 AM
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Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT Offline
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And alignment... Know anyone with a succesful super stock racecar? try pushing it...

Re: rolling resistance [Re: myduster360] #193696
01/15/09 01:48 AM
01/15/09 01:48 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Heavier vehicals will have more inertia than a lighter one, when coasting from the same speed, thus heavier vehicals will coast longer.


Got it! I've noticed that my car takes more braking when approaching a light when it is heavily loaded.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: rolling resistance [Re: myduster360] #193697
01/15/09 02:44 AM
01/15/09 02:44 AM
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Bitopia
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jcc Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

All vehicles at same speed and put in neutral at same spot. Any ideals???




Yeah, its Newton's 1st Law causing it.

You're chasing ghosts. Heavier vehicals will have more inertia than a lighter one, when coasting from the same speed, thus heavier vehicals will coast longer. It has little to do with comparative rolling resistances. Well not directly anyway. All 3 probably have very similiar rolling restances, but the heavier the vehical is, the LESS it is slowed by it.

Add wieght to your R/C to bring it to a curb wieght equal to the QuadCab and/or E250 and retest. I doubt you'll find much difference in the coasting distances then.

"Problem" solved





Not sure I agree, OP is not really comparing apples to oranges. To clarify, on same vehicle, adding weight with no other changes will always increase rolling resistance on an inflated tire vehicle especially. Comparing vehicles on coast down tests has a lot to do with initial speed, since areo qualities are very speed dependent and of course importance changes as speed drops, velocity and direction of ANY wind, tire, pressure, tread pattern, windows up down, AC on/Off, brake drag, lube temps/weight, etc.

As already mentioned, Tire pressure is biggest bang for buck, which is rolling resistance. If you think adding weight will be a benefit, enter the soap box derby.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: rolling resistance [Re: jcc] #193698
01/15/09 04:35 PM
01/15/09 04:35 PM
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central IL
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myduster360 Offline
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Quote:

Not sure I agree, OP is not really comparing apples to oranges. To clarify, on same vehicle, adding weight with no other changes will always increase rolling resistance on an inflated tire vehicle especially.




Yes thats why its so much easier to stop a cargo vehical loaded than when its empty. its the increase in Rolling resistance slowing the truck down for you.

Yes rolling resistance goes up a bit and it does make a difference but the difference is negligible.

Quote:


Comparing vehicles on coast down tests has a lot to do with initial speed, since areo qualities are very speed dependent and of course importance changes as speed drops, velocity and direction of ANY wind, tire, pressure, tread pattern, windows up down, AC on/Off, brake drag, lube temps/weight, etc.




I agree the op is drawing the incorrect conclusions from an obviously flawed comparison.

BTW how does the A/C affect anything if the trans is in nuetral?

Quote:


If you think adding weight will be a benefit, enter the soap box derby.




I didn't mean to imply that adding weight was beneficial, only to state the fact that increasing the vehical wieght WILL increase its Inertia and consequently, significantly affect the coasting distance. Pinewood derby cars, cannon balls, or cars, its all the same deal.

Accelleration will go to crap but coasting distance will improve.


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Re: rolling resistance [Re: myduster360] #193699
01/15/09 05:01 PM
01/15/09 05:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,802
A collage of whims
topside Offline
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Another possible cause is a bent rearend housing. If it's been a drag car for a long time, even a Dana 60 can have both tubes bowed back (toward the rear of the car). Went through this a couple years ago when I discovered I could hardly budge my 3,000lb car. Another consideration may be in the auto trans; you can separate the 2 for checking purposees simply by disconnecting the rear u-joint.

Re: rolling resistance [Re: topside] #193700
01/15/09 05:11 PM
01/15/09 05:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,791
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Magnum Offline
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I've noticed the same problem with my 87 Ram D150.
On a certain hill. It's the worst coaster of any car or truck I've tried.

I can easily push it around on my flat driveway but rolling down that hill starting at 100km/hr is a major drag.

Most likely the biggest problem is the parachute between the headlights.


69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super
Re: rolling resistance [Re: skajm] #193701
01/18/09 08:47 AM
01/18/09 08:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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360view Offline
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different brands of tires are very different rolling resistances, which is commonly called Crr by engineers

tread depth of the rubber on the tire also greatly affects rolling resistance, with new tires with deep tread rolling much harder than used tires with shallow tread left

as said above, high air pressure will reduce the rolling resistance

the "Ram Pickup MPG Improvement FAQ" has a whole section on name brand tires and how they vary in rolling resistance.

In just a few months the sidewalls of USA-sold tires have to have a new stamp rating their rolling resistance

You can measure your own tire rolling resistance (and aerodynamic coefficient of drag called Cd)
with this handy archived JAVA calculator from a racing team in England:

http://web.archive.org/web/2004080307322...tDownCalcs.html

be aware in the above online calculator that even if you use Miles per hour and square feet in your inputs the output they give you called
'A times Cd'
has the A part in square meters, not square feet.

Tire rolling resistance definitely has an effect on MPG. Here's a quote the Ram FAQ:
---
" Fuel mileage at a price. Some tires roll with less drag than others. The
lower a tire's rolling resistance, the more fuel you can save. Those savings
can be significant. {Pickup and SUV} Tires with the lowest rolling resistance
delivered nearly 2 mpg more at a steady 65 mph in our highway tests {2003
four-wheel-drive Ford Explorer XLT 4x4} than those with the highest rolling
resistance. The catch: While some high-scoring tires had low rolling
resistance, most tires with the lowest rolling resistance also had lower
overall scores."

In their 11/2004 Pickup & SUV tire test CR the
lowest rolling resistance tires rated 'excellent' were the:

Bridgestone Dueler H/T (D684)
Michelin Cross Terrain
Continental ContiTrac
BF Goodrich Radial Long Trail T/A

The Pickup & SUV tires with the worst rolling resistance were the:

Pirelli Scorpion STA
Kelly Safari Signature
Yokohama Geolander H/T-SG051

A tire with a 'very good' rolling resistance and high scores in other handling
and braking tests was the Hankook DynaPro AS RH03

Hankook recently announced that they had spent $10 million developing a
tire called the fx-Optimo that has even lower rolling resistance and can
give up to a 3% MPG improvement:

http://www.moderntiredealer.com/t_inside.cfm?action=news_det&storyID=5961

Michelin has also recently introduced an ultra-low rolling resistance tire for
use on diesels in Europe that is available in 15 and 16 inch sizes:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/09/07/michelin-creates-energy-saver-gas-conserving-tire/

In another test of "All Season" tires in November 2005,
CR rated these tires as 'excellent' for low rolling resistance:

Michelin X Radial DT
Michelin Agility Touring
Michelin Harmony
Hankook Mileage Plus GT H707
Kumho Touring 795 A/S
Toyo 800 Ultra
Sumitomo HTR T4

In the same November 2005 issue
'All Terrain' tires were also tested
but only the
Continental ContiTrac TR
got an excellent rating for low rolling resistance in this group.

Re: rolling resistance [Re: 360view] #193702
01/18/09 01:00 PM
01/18/09 01:00 PM

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A friends super stocker ( stick car ) will roll out of the shop on darn near level pavement and if the wind is blowing will keep going! A 6 year old kid can push it with 1 hand--you can jack it up and spin the front tire and it is amazing how long it will turn! Takes lots of work to get it that way but WORTH it.

Re: rolling resistance [Re: ] #193703
01/19/09 12:55 AM
01/19/09 12:55 AM
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Nevada
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dezduster Offline
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what year R/C is it? If its small bolt pattern full time 4wd they dont roll well.







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