Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
451 Build #1900602
08/27/15 07:51 PM
08/27/15 07:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 7
Michigan
L
LOtownNate Offline OP
member
LOtownNate  Offline OP
member
L

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 7
Michigan
First time building an American V8. Want some opinions on what I have and maybe a guess on how much power it will make.Thanks

CP Flat top pistons
Indy EZ (full cnc MW size by MCH)
Indy single plane manifold
1.6 ratio rockers
Lunati solid roller (specs are 1.5 ratio)
Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 279/285
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 249/255
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .585/.600
LSA/ICL: 110/106
Holley 950


Last edited by LOtownNate; 08/27/15 07:52 PM.
Re: 451 Build [Re: LOtownNate] #1900673
08/27/15 09:46 PM
08/27/15 09:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
D
dogdays Offline
I Live Here
dogdays  Offline
I Live Here
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
Those heads could stand a whole lot more shortblock under them, IMHO. Then you wouldn't have to rev to the moon to get your 675 hp.

Let's see what the real guys say.....
R.

Re: 451 Build [Re: LOtownNate] #1900702
08/27/15 10:26 PM
08/27/15 10:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,997
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,997
Oregon
Hmm, I'm not really sure. The MW heads on a 451 puts the torque peak around 5700 rpm so if you had a bigger cam you could shoot for a HP peak at around 7000 rpm. But I don't think you have nearly enough cam to carry the engine to 7000 rpm. I could load it into PipeMax and find out but my guess is that with that cam you run out of air 1000 or 1500 rpm before the heads are finished.

I built a 383 stroker a while back with a 270@050 solid flat tappet cam and CNC ported EZ heads. It made about 650 hp at 7000 rpm during the first dyno session so it was probably capable of 700 hp had we been able to sort it all out. With only 249 duration and .600 lift you'll be capped on power.

Re: 451 Build [Re: LOtownNate] #1900707
08/27/15 10:31 PM
08/27/15 10:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 7
Michigan
L
LOtownNate Offline OP
member
LOtownNate  Offline OP
member
L

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 7
Michigan
With the 1.6 rockers wouldn't it be .624 & .640? Do the 1.6's effect duration also?

Re: 451 Build [Re: LOtownNate] #1900718
08/27/15 10:48 PM
08/27/15 10:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 7
Michigan
L
LOtownNate Offline OP
member
LOtownNate  Offline OP
member
L

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 7
Michigan
What about this one...
Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 285/293
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 255/263
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .600/.600
LSA/ICL: 110/104
Or could someone recommend a cam? I have pac 1243 springs at 1.9 installed height. I think .700 is max lift with that installed height. remember I have 1.6 rockers

Re: 451 Build [Re: LOtownNate] #1900733
08/27/15 11:16 PM
08/27/15 11:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
Bigcube Offline
I Live Here
Bigcube  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
I agree with Andy, you need a lot more cam to use the heads you have on a small motor. That will need to spin to make some power.


Jim

Re: 451 Build [Re: LOtownNate] #1900795
08/28/15 12:33 AM
08/28/15 12:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
Is this a B or RB block build workWhat is the lobe lift and valve lash settings for the cam? I like and use as much rocker ratio that I can get away with on the cams I pick now up The 1.6 ratio will make your cam have more duration and lift from the opening to the closing and it will open the valve further and quicker at the same time thumbs


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 451 Build [Re: LOtownNate] #1901082
08/28/15 01:39 PM
08/28/15 01:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 7
Michigan
L
LOtownNate Offline OP
member
LOtownNate  Offline OP
member
L

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 7
Michigan
B block

Re: 451 Build [Re: LOtownNate] #1901201
08/28/15 05:07 PM
08/28/15 05:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,997
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,997
Oregon
Cam choice depends on a bunch of variables which you haven't given us. Street car? Road Race? Drag Race? Jet Boat? How heavy, what gears, etc.

If this is a drag race car and you want to make maximum power then you'll need around 270 duration and as much lift as you can afford. You'll also need some gear and converter to make it work.

If it is a Pro Fairground car that goes to the burger stand once a month then put a smaller cam in there so you can drive it from light to light.

Re: 451 Build [Re: LOtownNate] #1901313
08/28/15 07:45 PM
08/28/15 07:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 7
Michigan
L
LOtownNate Offline OP
member
LOtownNate  Offline OP
member
L

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 7
Michigan
This all got started cause most of my fathers friends are Ford and GM guys. They come over and glap their lips on how Ford/GM is better.

It will be a street/strip kind of deal. It's going in 70's Barracuda and right now it has a 4.10 gear. Don't have a converter.

Besides the Lunati Voodoo 40230733 i mentioned in the original post here are the valvetrain parts I have so far..

Isky ez roll lifters
HS rockers
Comp tool steel retainers
Pac 1243 springs

Re: 451 Build [Re: LOtownNate] #1901400
08/28/15 09:46 PM
08/28/15 09:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,997
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,997
Oregon
Ah okay, solid roller cam, good heads, 451 inches, E body car with 4.10 gears and street/strip.

Given that I have a used cam that would work great. It is an Ultradyne R60 lobe. 259@050 and .694 lift with the 1.60 rocker arms. That will work with your springs and it will make really good power. Maybe 650 or so on the dyno, a bit less in the car. The R60 lobe is street friendly. I've used it in several motors in the past and it is the same lobe that Dwayne had(has?) in his RR.

Re: 451 Build [Re: LOtownNate] #1908726
09/08/15 04:43 PM
09/08/15 04:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 7
Michigan
L
LOtownNate Offline OP
member
LOtownNate  Offline OP
member
L

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 7
Michigan
One of the cam companies specd me this one..

Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 288/294
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 256/260
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .680/.672
LSA/ICL: 109/106

Re: 451 Build [Re: AndyF] #1908734
09/08/15 05:04 PM
09/08/15 05:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
Originally Posted By AndyF
Ah okay, solid roller cam, good heads, 451 inches, E body car with 4.10 gears and street/strip.

Hmmm... sounds familiar. whistling

MW heads are too big for that displacement and will kill the torque curve under 5K. If Trick Flow would get off their corporate a$$ and get the new PowerPort 240s into the publics' hands, I'd say that's what you'd want to run.

With better suited heads and a cam in the range that's been thrown around (255-260-ish at .050"), you'll still need a converter w/ a flash around 4200-4500 to launch hard, which will require really sticky DOT tires or slicks, and suspension updates, and...

Oh, crap, this is how it all starts. eek

drive

Re: 451 Build [Re: LOtownNate] #1908755
09/08/15 05:49 PM
09/08/15 05:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923
NC
440Jim Offline
I Live Here
440Jim  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923
NC
Glad you guys got him thinking about more cam duration than this first cam. The 4.10 gear is great, just need to matach the converter to the final cam selection. I would limit cam duration based on the compression ratio (which I haven't seen posted yet). But likely around 260 deg at 0.050" (like the Ultradyne Andy posted), but if CR is over 11.0, then a little more.


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 451 Build [Re: LOtownNate] #1908762
09/08/15 06:08 PM
09/08/15 06:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 7
Michigan
L
LOtownNate Offline OP
member
LOtownNate  Offline OP
member
L

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 7
Michigan
CR is 11.0

Re: 451 Build [Re: BradH] #1908857
09/08/15 08:30 PM
09/08/15 08:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,997
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,997
Oregon
True dat. It is easy to make power these days, just buy some big heads and a big cam. But getting it to hook up in a street car isn't much easier than it ever was. Need a big ol Dana 60 out back with some mono leafs and Calverts and really good shocks and the list continues on and on.

Re: 451 Build [Re: LOtownNate] #1908872
09/08/15 09:04 PM
09/08/15 09:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 187
WI
mopar873 Offline
member
mopar873  Offline
member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 187
WI
Since no one has said it yet, welcome! I commend you for looking forward to smacking up a few Ford and Chevy guys. The guys here are right, you're going to need more cam with those heads. Don't let other people tell you horror stories about too much duration.
My last Mopar was a 65 belvedere. That car was a 447" with -1 heads. It was 13.5:1 and had a 286@.050 roller. Obviously with your compression you don't need to get quite that hairy. Either way, I took the Dominator off that car and ran a Holley 1000cfm 4150 style and that car saw PLENTY of street time. With a 4500 stall ATI converter and 4.88s with a 30" tire you'd be surprised how well it behaved. I'm guessing with about a 27-28" tire in back and those 4.10s you'll have way more response than you'd expect.
Go have some fun and start thinking "rear suspension". Good working cars turn out nice when built from the back forward.

Re: 451 Build [Re: mopar873] #1908880
09/08/15 09:33 PM
09/08/15 09:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
I agree about the "too much duration" to a point and my street 470ci Dart has an Isky solid roller w/.682-.662 lift and 276-281 @ .050 and purrs like a kitten runs on 91 pump and race it on 101 pump. NO negatives except for the lack of traction even w/a 29.5x10.5 et slick........too much fun and TOTALLY streetable even in 112+ Vegas heat. thumbs


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1