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AVS bogs #1857508
06/26/15 05:30 PM
06/26/15 05:30 PM
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Houston Texas, USA
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markfh52 Offline OP
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I've posted about this and I'm still at a loss for why this rebuilt AVS on my Dart bogs when hitting the throttle.

The car starts okay and idles pretty good considering I haven't officially set the timing other than by ear but when first hitting the throttle hard it will bog and would stall the engine if I don't back off a little and let the engine recover.

The video here is short but as you can see when hitting the throttle It appears I'm getting plenty of fuel through both venturi but that seems to make the engine bog.

When rebuilding this carb I set everything to specs in the service manual.

AVS Bogs

Re: AVS bogs [Re: markfh52] #1857556
06/26/15 06:27 PM
06/26/15 06:27 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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I couldn't see a stream in the vid but I might be missing it. are you on ported or manifold? I'm thinking (1) no stream (2) (if) on manifold & not enough initial (3) vac leak. #1 is there a healthy squirt there?


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: AVS bogs [Re: markfh52] #1857577
06/26/15 06:57 PM
06/26/15 06:57 PM
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massachusetts U.S.A.
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1969ronnie Offline
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I second that the pump shot looks weak in that video. ronnie

Re: AVS bogs [Re: markfh52] #1857579
06/26/15 06:58 PM
06/26/15 06:58 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Try tightening the air door spring a little,(1/4 to 1/2 turn scope) if that doesn't do it try loosening it a little. up

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/26/15 06:58 PM.

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Re: AVS bogs [Re: markfh52] #1857603
06/26/15 07:29 PM
06/26/15 07:29 PM
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Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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A bogging AVS is usually due to the AIR VALVE Secondary door opening too soon. To set it up properly your timing should first be set.
To verify it is on the secondary side, block the secondaries shut and repeat the scenario under which it bogs. if the bog is gone tune the air door spring. twocents

Re: AVS bogs [Re: markfh52] #1857605
06/26/15 07:34 PM
06/26/15 07:34 PM
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Originally Posted By markfh52
I've posted about this and I'm still at a loss for why this rebuilt AVS on my Dart bogs when hitting the throttle.

The car starts okay and idles pretty good considering I haven't officially set the timing other than by ear but when first hitting the throttle hard it will bog and would stall the engine if I don't back off a little and let the engine recover.


seriously ?? and you wonder why it runs the way it does ???

Re: AVS bogs [Re: JohnRR] #1857706
06/26/15 09:34 PM
06/26/15 09:34 PM
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dogdays Offline
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Hey, we're all legends in our own minds.....I second the air door comment. Tighten it up a bunch, the bog will disappear. Then slowly loosen it until the bog comes back. Tighten a tad and you're there.
R.

Re: AVS bogs [Re: markfh52] #1857754
06/26/15 10:55 PM
06/26/15 10:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
Mattax Offline
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The video appears to show the car sitting still, transmission in neutral.
The air valve is not opening too soon, it is not opening at all. This is correct - secondaries shouldn't be called upon to rev an engine in neutral!

The description of 'backing off on the throttle' matches a too lean situation. Inadequate pump shot is the first thing to look at AFTER setting the timing to spec. My advice is also check the timing advance to see if it matches the FSM. (Slight adjustment may be needed later on due to changes in fuel, but start with a known baseline. This all assumes a true resto, nothing hopped up)

Re: AVS bogs [Re: Mattax] #1857910
06/27/15 01:23 AM
06/27/15 01:23 AM
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Maryland
GO_Fish Offline
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iagree set timing properly first, so you are not shooting yourself in the foot. Then check the pump shot. The pump should start to squirt as soon as you move the throttle. If the squirt happens after the throttle is already moving, that will be a bog. Three different holes on the pump lever arm to choose.


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Re: AVS bogs [Re: GO_Fish] #1858051
06/27/15 11:27 AM
06/27/15 11:27 AM
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Posts: 1,009
Richmond Twp. Mi.
Mr340 Offline
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Back in my early days I rebuilt the AVS on my 340. it developed a similar bog. I miss placed the check needle under the squirters. Check to make sure you reinstalled the small check needle that goes under the squirters.

Gary

Last edited by Mr340; 06/27/15 11:34 AM.
Re: AVS bogs [Re: Mr340] #1858655
06/28/15 01:14 AM
06/28/15 01:14 AM
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Posts: 52
Houston Texas, USA
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markfh52 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By TJP
A bogging AVS is usually due to the AIR VALVE Secondary door opening too soon. To set it up properly your timing should first be set.
To verify it is on the secondary side, block the secondaries shut and repeat the scenario under which it bogs. if the bog is gone tune the air door spring. twocents


Checked that. Tightened it up a little but no change.

Originally Posted By Mattax
The video appears to show the car sitting still, transmission in neutral.
The air valve is not opening too soon, it is not opening at all. This is correct - secondaries shouldn't be called upon to rev an engine in neutral!

The description of 'backing off on the throttle' matches a too lean situation. Inadequate pump shot is the first thing to look at AFTER setting the timing to spec. My advice is also check the timing advance to see if it matches the FSM. (Slight adjustment may be needed later on due to changes in fuel, but start with a known baseline. This all assumes a true resto, nothing hopped up)


Car is sitting still in park. I set the timing to spec and still get the bog. I'll have time to check the advance tomorrow if I can remember how. This is no resto. It's a completely stock and original car other than things like brakes.



Originally Posted By Mr340
Back in my early days I rebuilt the AVS on my 340. it developed a similar bog. I miss placed the check needle under the squirters. Check to make sure you reinstalled the small check needle that goes under the squirters.

Gary


Yep, got em there.

I have other problems that I need to sort out as well. I'll be pulling my plugs next. I think my new "correct" ignition cables and /or my coil are defective.

I took the car out and it stumbles and stutters and acts like it's going to die.

Re: AVS bogs [Re: markfh52] #1858664
06/28/15 01:59 AM
06/28/15 01:59 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Mark so there IS a healthy stream coming out? sufficient quantity? and stream starts as soon as you move the throttle?


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: AVS bogs [Re: markfh52] #1858740
06/28/15 10:44 AM
06/28/15 10:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
Mattax Offline
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Originally Posted By markfh52

Car is sitting still in park. I set the timing to spec and still get the bog. I'll have time to check the advance tomorrow if I can remember how. This is no resto. It's a completely stock and original car other than things like brakes.

By "resto" the point I was making is that the engine and drivetrain is stock, and therefore the factory specs are a good baseline.

I'll describe checking advance later but all information here points to a lack of fuel. Specifically, not enough fuel as the throttle is quickly opened from an idle or slightly off-idle position. Therefore either the idle/transition ciruit is too lean to begin with, or the pump shot is insufficient in some way. If there is a hesitation when opening the throttle very slowly, then idle/transition circuits too lean. Also may want to check your pollution controls which can sometimes screw up the initial settings.

I don't think the ignition side is your problem. You'ld have miss or backfire, not a bog. But here's how to check the mechanical advance. Vacuum is similar.
Advance specs for the distributor are in the back of the electrical section. Since you're doing it on the engine, you will need to convert the specs. When I check a dizzy on the engine here's what I do:
Engine warmed, pull the dist vacuum hose and plug the hose with a golf tee. (A cap on the carb or manifold port works just as well).
Adjust carb speed slightly if needed to get a stable rpm. Measure rpm with tach (I use a old school tach/dwell on the coil for stock ignitions). Measure timing with timing light.
Write down both!
Slowly increase rpm (you can use the idle speed screw or have helper) and repeat the above every couple of hundred rpm. However, to check for spec, this is overkill. Just check for points specficied. For example, '68 340 w/ A/T:
first two points are -
0 dist deg @ 325 to 475 dist rpm and
0 to 3.6 dist deg @ 475 rpm
=> therefore check at 650 and 950 engine rpm.
Then the next spec is
7.1* to 9.1* @ 770 rpm
= > therefore check at 1540 engine rpm
Final spec is
10.5* to 12.5* @ 2000 rpm
=> therefore check at 4000 rpm (which is above most tach/dwells range, you'll need another type of tach for this).

Then for each timing point read, subtract your base timing. For the same engine the FSM says 5* BTC at 650 rpm, and lets say your first reading was 5* at 500 rpm and the next was 5* at 650, therefore advance at 650 is 0 degrees. Perfect.
Next, lets say the timing read at 900 rpm was 8 degrees.
8 - 5 = 3*
Spec was 0 to 3.6 dist degrees = 0 to 7.2 degrees.
Therefore 3* is in spec.
Let's do one more. Say the timing at 1500 rpm was 20 degrees.
20 - 5 = 15 degree advance
Spec at 1540 engine rpm was 7.1 to 9.1 = > 14.2 to 18.2 crank deg. 15 degrees is in range, still good.

With today's pump gasoline, especially e10, you may find that a little less vacuum or total advance resolves pinging - if that is an issue.




Last edited by Mattax; 06/28/15 10:56 AM.






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