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Re: New electrical issue - Brights and gauges?
[Re: Ludington1]
#184522
01/05/09 02:07 PM
01/05/09 02:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,312
SoCal
68HemiB
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SoCal
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One guess would be a bad common ground to the gauges. I don't mean that like the "check the grounds" catch-all response you sometimes get on problems like this.
What does the high beam indicator do when you hit the brights? If it doesn't come on, or does so dimly, that is an indication that the indicator bulb and high beam circuit might be providing the gauge ground, and goes away when power is applied from the other side. An easy way to see if I'm all wet is to pull the high beam indicator bulb and see if that kills your gauges.
Oh yeah. And check the grounds.
Down to just a blue car now.
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Re: New electrical issue - Brights and gauges?
[Re: 68HemiB]
#184525
01/05/09 10:19 PM
01/05/09 10:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,072
Farmland, IN
Ludington1
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Quote:
One guess would be a bad common ground to the gauges. I don't mean that like the "check the grounds" catch-all response you sometimes get on problems like this.
What does the high beam indicator do when you hit the brights? If it doesn't come on, or does so dimly, that is an indication that the indicator bulb and high beam circuit might be providing the gauge ground, and goes away when power is applied from the other side. An easy way to see if I'm all wet is to pull the high beam indicator bulb and see if that kills your gauges.
Oh yeah. And check the grounds.
High-beam indicator does come on, can't say if it is dim or not. I can try to pull the bulb tomorrow and see if that makes a difference. I thought the cluster ground was via the screws into the dash frame?
Thanks again!
Darren
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Re: New electrical issue - Brights and gauges?
[Re: Ludington1]
#184526
01/05/09 10:31 PM
01/05/09 10:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822
Colorado
denfireguy
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Posts: 1,822
Colorado
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I believe your dash uses a regulator to control your gauges. It is a switching regulator that converts 12V battery to 5 Volt reference voltage for all of your gauges. They are notorious for failing but usually not in this manner. They were used on a wide range of Chrysler vehicles and very easy to find. RT-Engineering makes a modern version that is much more reliable and has protection to keep your gauges from burning up.
I would recommend you check this right away: if there is an over voltage situation it WILL fry your gauges.
Craig
2014 Ram 1500 Laramie, 73 Cuda
Previous mopars: 62 Valiant, 65 Fury III, 68 Fury III, 72 Satellite, 74 Satellite, 89 Acclaim, 98 Caravan, 2003 Durango
Only previous Non-Mopar: Schwinn Tornado
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Re: New electrical issue - Brights and gauges?
[Re: denfireguy]
#184527
01/05/09 10:39 PM
01/05/09 10:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,072
Farmland, IN
Ludington1
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Quote:
I believe your dash uses a regulator to control your gauges. It is a switching regulator that converts 12V battery to 5 Volt reference voltage for all of your gauges. They are notorious for failing but usually not in this manner. They were used on a wide range of Chrysler vehicles and very easy to find. RT-Engineering makes a modern version that is much more reliable and has protection to keep your gauges from burning up.
I would recommend you check this right away: if there is an over voltage situation it WILL fry your gauges.
Craig
Thanks Craig, installed the solid-state limiter from RT-Eng several months ago.
Darren
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Re: New electrical issue - Brights and gauges?
[Re: Ludington1]
#184528
01/05/09 11:22 PM
01/05/09 11:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822
Colorado
denfireguy
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2014 Ram 1500 Laramie, 73 Cuda
Previous mopars: 62 Valiant, 65 Fury III, 68 Fury III, 72 Satellite, 74 Satellite, 89 Acclaim, 98 Caravan, 2003 Durango
Only previous Non-Mopar: Schwinn Tornado
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Re: New electrical issue - Brights and gauges?
[Re: Ludington1]
#184529
01/06/09 01:11 AM
01/06/09 01:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,418
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
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Quote:
I thought the cluster ground was via the screws into the dash frame?
It is. Lots of things can happen when you loose the ground. Two main points. The printed circuit board needs to grounded to the main housing VIA the screws that hold the printed board to the cluster. Most likely only one controls the ground so make sure all are tight. Second is the screws that hold the cluster to the dash frame. It cant be loose from there. Best way is to install a ground wire from the cluster housing to a good body ground and then make sure all the screws that hold the printed circuit board in are tight,
When you hit the brights the indicator must of stole the printed circuits board ground.
Head lights are a different circuit and have zero bearing on your problem.
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Re: New electrical issue - Brights and gauges?
[Re: 3ddart]
#184533
01/06/09 12:11 PM
01/06/09 12:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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HONESTLY I would think more on poor positive contact around. we can talk about bulkhead, ammeter stud, Battery terminal, alternator stud, starter relay stud.
another positive point to check is on back of fuse box... buss bars. Terminals get sulfated/corroed. ACTUALLY I'm working on a Dart fusebox with that problem, where quite often loose the cluster lights, wrong gauge readings, and even non working back up lamps! We discover is on fusebox. FUSE TERMINALS WERE GETTING INCREDIBLE HOT and then cluster lights died. Fuses never blow. We are using battery ends cleaner since that is used to remove sulfated surfaces
clusters normally does have LOOOOOOTS of ground locations with each screw what makes me hard to think a ground problem. I never have found a ground problem on a cluster... maybe yes on block, ground body strip or something like that
AND REMEMBER it couldn't be a ground on cluster if we are talking about gauges BECAUSE GUAGES ARE DRIVEN BY VARIABLE NEGATIVE coming from senders, so gauges are isolated on cluster
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: New electrical issue - Brights and gauges?
[Re: NachoRT74]
#184534
01/06/09 12:32 PM
01/06/09 12:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,418
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
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Quote:
clusters normally does have LOOOOOOTS of ground locations with each screw what makes me hard to think a ground problem. I never have found a ground problem on a cluster... maybe yes on block, ground body strip or something like that
Read his first post. When the high beam indicator comes on the guages quit. To me thats a sign of a ground path being removed. I have the fsm in front of me and I will bet if there is a ground applied to the proper grounding screw for the circuit board that will fix the problem.
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Re: New electrical issue - Brights and gauges?
[Re: 72roadrunnergtx]
#184536
01/06/09 03:07 PM
01/06/09 03:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,418
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NITROUSN
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Quote:
The voltage limiter is not completely grounded and is likely operating from a ground path provided though the high beam indicator bulb and high beam relay. Energizing this circuit removes this ground path. Not sure what dash you have, I assume it is based on a printed circuit board. If that’s the case I believe the voltage limiter is “plugged” into your circuit board. The FSM diagram I’m looking at shows a trace running from the voltage limiter to the high beam indicator blub with another trace providing the ground for both running from a PCB mounting screw. A fault with this trace will create your symptoms. If the entire cluster had a ground fault you would have other indicator/illumination lights inop.
Your looking at an entirely different diagram.
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Re: New electrical issue - Brights and gauges?
[Re: NITROUSN]
#184537
01/06/09 03:33 PM
01/06/09 03:33 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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yeah forgot printed circuit boards use a "plugg in" limiter and of course need ground on board. However I don't think is CLUSTER ground like IF is a ground problem is JUST the VOLTAGE LIMITER GROUND TERMINAL! not really cluster. Cluster ground problem should dimm gauge lightning too when fail is present.
that's at least what logic comes to mind.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: New electrical issue - Brights and gauges?
[Re: NachoRT74]
#184538
01/06/09 04:08 PM
01/06/09 04:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,418
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NITROUSN
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Quote:
yeah forgot printed circuit boards use a "plugg in" limiter and of course need ground on board. However I don't think is CLUSTER ground like IF is a ground problem is JUST the VOLTAGE LIMITER GROUND TERMINAL! not really cluster. Cluster ground problem should dimm gauge lightning too when fail is present.
that's at least what logic comes to mind.
Here is the logic on that side of the dash. There are two grounds on the board. They both ground with screws. One ground is just for one dash light bulb located far right. The second grounds one other dash light and the limiter. Its possible that this bulb is bad. either way i do believe the ground is being removed from this board. I do have a cluster in the shop that makes it more understandable. All the rest of the bulbs ground to the cluster[all metal] In other various points. No more circuit boards in those areas. If it were me I would install an extra ground wire from a good body area to the upper left[facing the dash]or[ the upper right screw if looking from behind] screw that holds the circuit board to the cluster. This will ground the cluster and circuit board. I will just about bet if all the cluster to dash frame bolts are tightened along with the circuit board to cluster screws the problem will go away.
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Re: New electrical issue - Brights and gauges?
[Re: NachoRT74]
#184539
01/06/09 06:00 PM
01/06/09 06:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,072
Farmland, IN
Ludington1
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Quote:
yeah forgot printed circuit boards use a "plugg in" limiter and of course need ground on board. However I don't think is CLUSTER ground like IF is a ground problem is JUST the VOLTAGE LIMITER GROUND TERMINAL! not really cluster. Cluster ground problem should dimm gauge lightning too when fail is present.
that's at least what logic comes to mind.
Thanks again, I didn't get a chance to mess with it today, but I think the cluster ground must be the issue. I went out and turned off the garage lights and turned on the headlights, cluster lights DO dim when I hit the brights. It is the plug-in type solid-state limiter, as stated above.
I'll have to look and see if I can get to the screw mentioned above and see if I can get a terminal on it without pulling the cluster and run it to the body somewhere. Tomorrow... maybe...
Darren
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Re: New electrical issue - Brights and gauges?
[Re: NITROUSN]
#184540
01/06/09 06:07 PM
01/06/09 06:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,072
Farmland, IN
Ludington1
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Quote:
If it were me I would install an extra ground wire from a good body area to the upper left [facing the dash] or [the upper right screw if looking from behind] screw that holds the circuit board to the cluster. This will ground the cluster and circuit board. I will just about bet if all the cluster to dash frame bolts are tightened along with the circuit board to cluster screws the problem will go away.
Looking at your spare cluster, where is the screw in relation to the headlight switch connection on the back of the cluster? I'll have to get out my FSM and take a look.
Darren
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