Hi,

I know this has been beat to death, but I cant seem to find anywhere anyone having same issues as myself.
Year One mild 440 in a 68 RR with Weiand 8009 intake. Have a 1411 and have tried a 1413 as well with same results. AFR readings at idle, 23-26, but near normal at mid cruise and WOT. 12.8-14.8. Burns my eyes smelling super rich. Playing with the rod/jet combos and no better. 1413 is stock at the moment and seems slight better.

Timing 12 deg at idle to 34 deg at 2700-3000. Pounds good on the road, little ping when mosh the pedal. But I can't seem to get it set proper to 14.5 ish at idle to tune it?

Could be the Procomp dist, so waiting for the MSD one to show. But in the meantime, would be nice to get the idle AFR better. I believe I have a lean misfire?????


So what should I do now....HELP? Or same experience etc....

what idle speed? still on idle circuit? check integrity of needle/seats/float saturation/fuel psi at carb. make sure the rods are down at idle & might bump the initial up to 18-20 & see what that does for it & yes that'd push you total likely too high but just stay at idle with it at 18 & work there & see what develops (cuz idle is where the prob is). yes the 1411 is the eddy 750 that gets all the flak but work with it & holler how it goes. I have one I bought for $25 but I ain't got to it yet. (the 25 shoulda been a red flag but I feel lucky) EDIT you mentioned lean misfire, not sure about that but I'd block the rods up for that & see what happens & what were the idle A/F readings again

Wow, I didn't know it would idle at that reading. Mine gauge doesn't read above 18. Could this be caused by a low float??? If not, pardon my ignorance..

I just went thru this with my mild 440 and 1407 and had to go super big on the jets (113 primary and 116 secondary), and smaller on the rods.
Setting 9 on chart 1433 jet(.113") 1447 rod(.068" x .047") and pink spring. Changing spring made biggest difference on mine. Unfortunately I just found out I have 25% less comp. in cylinder 4 which confounded tuning, probably from a broken ring (leakdown indicated crankcase/to be continued) due to detonation maybe (get your timing straight)

I think you should definitely get your initial up as Robert said to at least 14-16 and then adjust your slot in distributor to limit mechanical advance to 34-36. 12.8-14.8 is not super rich.. 12.8 great for WOT, maybe a little leaner for cruise in 14s is good.

Glad your car pounds at least. Mine is a dog.

Sounds like a miss to me. Got a cylinder not firing at idle? That would make it rich smell, but lean AF if I am thinking right.

Do you know anyone that might have a carb that they would lend you just to see if the problem remains with the loaner? How about pulling plug wires one at a time at idle to see if you have a dead or weak cyl at idle?

You need to determine whether the problem is the carb or the engine itself before doing anything else.

One last thing, do not worry about any particular A/F ratio at idle. I see good idles anywhere from 13.5 to 14.5. The idle ratio doesn't matter, just tune for what the engine likes. Of course, if the idle mix is way off, then the O2 can tell you which way to go. If it has a mild cam, then a vacuum gage works good or you can just tune it using a good low RPM tach.

I wouldn't use the 750 on a 440, the 800 however should work fine with your set-up. As mentioned make sure everything else is working right. You can pull one plug at a time or you can take a timing light and put it on each wire. This will tell you if the plugs are firing, the one at a time will indicate a dead cylinder which can be caused by a few different things. I don't think your distrib is going to cause a lean/rich issue. I don't usually worry to much about initial, I start at 36* in full at 22-2400, then back the idle down to 750 or so and adjust the mixtures for the best vacuum reading. You might have to re-adjust the idle and mixture screws a few times before you get it right. Also check you fuel pressure and make sure your floats are good. Both will cause the issues you are describing.

use your light to see if each one is firing rather than pulling a wire. electronics dont like opens. grounding each wire WO pulliing it works

Wow...lots of response. Thanks guys...
I'm at a conference until Sunday, but will keep checking here. All good ideas...I hadn't thought of a bad cylinder seeing the motor doesn't have many miles on it. But Robert you say a light. What would that be?

It's idling at 950 ish. Vacuum around 10 -12 fairly steady. Am now running the 850 with similar results. I have a kit installed each. Tested the LM-2 on 2 newer caget14.get 14.3 in e so I know it's working.

Sorry...working from my berry. Mean to say tested in 2 newer cars.

That lean at idle with two different carbs points to a vac leak. Check the intake and power booster if it has one.

I bought this car last Sept. is a 68 RR, first gen (1st 6mos of build) The guy said runs great....I knew it needed work with these issues, but I've had SB's for years, and thought no big deal. Well been a week now...lol. But i'm sure I'll get it. Love the car as what it needed was just final details and touch-ups. Oh ya...paint too...paint is good from far but far from good if you know what I mean...lol. I paint in my shop anyway, so will cut and polish for now until winter. Then B/C and color sand/polish for a perfect finish later.

I did read one thread quoting either Rick here or Barry Grant about lean misfires diagnosed as rich when actually are a lean condition. That's why leaning toward this route. When I played with the 750 long enough, I thought I'd try the 800. It was marginally better but still not where it should be. So yes, I still have underlying issues.

Also forgot, one muffler is shot...blown a hole in it. That's coming as well soon (Jegs BO). That wouldn't do that would it?

Good catch somecarguy. No power brakes, but will check for leaks. Dyno on 2007 sheet shows 14hg at 800 rpm from Year One, but we all know those were not real all the time. Sure not getting that reading today.

Mr Yuck and Robert, good points as well. I didn't know a timing light on each wire would tell you if it's firing or not. See...not too old to learn something new....even from Canada ey....lol. Also the blocking up of the rods. If it still read stupid lean, then I have major issues....GOOD ONE!

When back Monday, will do a dry/wet comp and check again for vacuum leaks. ran unlit propane around base but found none. Will try again.

At initial timing of 14 deg, did a run and got some pinging when moshed it, but cleared up after tires stopped spinning...lol. So I know it's lean...

Have as I said one of those Asian Procomp dist and I'm sure isn't working properly. When mech advance is at 34 deg @ 2500 - 3000 rpm, back at idle it's like 9 deg. Bump back up to say 14 at idle, and goes over bad. Then changes again...so think that junk has to go. So that thing is not running right either. Have the MSD all in one enroute from Jegs coming soon. It's fully adjustable and has a built in rev limiter as well. Has capability to stop advance at a specified RPM. Will change that, plug wires and plugs. Comp test, reset timing and then carb. Then will check again.

So keep the ideas coming if I am missing something. Be mid - end of next week with results, so stay tuned. Thanks again!

cheers - Mike

Check the plugs... you could be sucking oil thru the intake and that wouldn't necessarily show up as a vacuum leak. That will however lead to detonation. I put on a CH4B once, ran pretty good, swapped it with an RPM about 6 months later and 3/4 were sucking oil... it doesn't take much and it won't show up out the tail pipes.
Blown muffler shouldn't cause any issues.

When the car came home, was barely running. I changed the dist as it was so bad. All I had was an old OEM kicking so put that in. Came with the 800 barely running. So put in a 600 to lean it out. So rich was smoking. Plugs at that time were so black, you could write on paper with it.

With the new dist, carb change out and procomp, they are looking light brown to white. So lean ya..cant see any oil. But I'll post some pics next week to give a less boring report....lol.

Then you guys can see maybe something I'm not.

Procomp is probably fine but u have to limit the mechanical advance to about 20 degrees. If it is not adjustable it can be welded. Otherwise the MSD will do the trick.. BE careful with the pinging..

Well MSN will go in as soon as it gets here. Yes...have stopped playing with it until I get the dist in and check the other items. Stay tuned

MSD....phone typing again...lol

Now cam specs are: 484 lift, 238 dur.

When I got it home, smoked rich bad. Now just smells rich with lean condition according to AFR at 23.

thanks again

Do you have a sensor on each side or just on one like me? Are all plugs getting black (both banks). I doubt you have just one side dumping fuel in but it is weird to have a 23 reading and black plugs..

If you have the vac advance hooked up, unhook it. I know somebody will chime in but smelling rich can actually be mean it is lean. Go back to square one. Did you check your fuel pressure and floats yet?

Sensor on one side but its the same on both. Plugs aren't black anymore, light brown to light grey. Im going to change them to get a better reading as they have been in for a while, When they were black, they cleaned up after the dist change and tweaking the carbs.

Vac advance is hooked up. So yes, will disconnect it and I'll try propping up the rods at idle as well. Then take a reading again. Fuel pressure is stock but tested that and was at 5-6 I believe. Floats set a few times, but stayed steady at 7/16" so looks ok there as well.

Aside for the richness at idle, had I not had an AFR meter, I would have left it running as is. Runs good off the line, mid a WOT. Little pinging, but was waiting to change the dist. I have read that the procomp dists have many issues. Boought this one off Ebay from Skip White. Says it was set at 20 deg max advance, but funny thing. He doesn't sell them anymore. So what can I say.

I'll do the changes next week as the parts should be in. I'll get to the bottom of this, with all your help as well ....thanks guys.

--Mike

I didn't weld in a bung. Im using a tailpipe adapter. tested with and without and go same reading so mine seems to work fine with the adapter.

Looks like dist etc just arrived back home. So will get into it on Monday and advise the outcome. I have lots to check now with all your input. I also have a tiny fiber boroscope, so I can get into each cylinder and see if anything what`s happening in there too. Im worried now about the detonation issues. But I think it`ll be ok as I only moshed it a few times.