the bearings are set up L to R #1 main thru #5 and same on rods L to R. uppers are at top and lowers on bottom. they have about 40-50 passes and 1500-2000 miles i'm guessing. what do you think? did they get enough oil and especially #1 main and rod?

ok, how do you add pics? why did they make this so difficult?

ok, thanks i'll try again

heres some more.

The rod bearing look good to me I would check the actual run out on the # 2 and #4 crankshaft mains to see what is causing those two main bearings to look like they do I've seen more than one SB crankshaft have run out on the #2 main Let us know what you find out

OK. I will have that checked. Let ya know.

IMO it's not a oiling problem, I'm betting the crank is a mess. It never was right judging by those rod bearings, they are messed up too. It looks like there taper in the journals?

the upper rod bearings look to be more worn in the center while the lowers appear to be more worn on the outside edges. i'll have to mic the crank when I get time.

I noticed you used upper halves on the lower mains for 360 oiling? Possibly?

What crank?

And id guess its as delivered. If this is so its the main reason I will run the high side of the bearing clearance which is ok but I always end up going 10/10 with a good crank grinder.

Some will go 10/10 from the gate.

The upper rod bearings should be the only ones showing wear, the lowers are just along for the ride. Hows the rod bearings crush? I bet not good?

the backs of the shells look like they might be alittle worn. hard to tell. what am I looking for exactly? some are black and some I can see alittle copper.

You want to see how they "snap" into the rod. Should fit tight in the rod. (crush)

And you measure the width on the rod bearing to see if it spread any. Look real close and you can see if there "spread" with your eyes right in the middle.

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If my bearings looked like that after the amount of use you described above, I'd be concerned about the source of the problem. The rods look "so-so" at best, and a couple of those crank bearings just plain look bad, maybe like temporay oil starvation.

Not sure I can add any more to what others have said. I, too, suspect the crank has issues, but would want to verify there are no obstructions in the oiling passages, etc.

when I removed the bearings from the rods they felt tight and a couple where alittle tougher to get out. I will have the rods checked as well as the crank as it has micro grooves in the journals. I plan on some oiling mods and a new pump that I never knew existed. this new pump oils according to rpm and is not done by 3000rpm like the melling pumps. suppose to be easier on bronze gears as well.

I don't understand that last comment. ANY positive displacement pump oils by rpm. The flow out of the pump is directly proportional to the pump speed, which is directly proportional to crankshaft speed. EVERY engine wet sump oil pump is a positive displacement pump. I believe all of the dry sump pumps are as well. It could be possible to use a centrifugal pump, but operating characteristics of a centrifugal pump don't match engine lubrication needs very well.

I do not understand why you would say that a Melling pump would be all done by 3000 rpm. Melling makes most of the oil pumps that are sold for the US market. There is nothing about the design of a Melling pump, or any engine oil pump of which I am aware, that would make that happen.

On the other hand, if the oil pickup tube is constricted, or if the oil gets all foamy above 3000 rpm, then something like what I think you are describing is possible, due to cavitation.

R.

I was given the info by Mopar Performance shop by me. I do not understand it fully myself. even though themelling pump spins faster above 3000rpm, it doesn't move any more oil thru the engine as i'm told. only thing I can figure is it creates too much internal pressure above 3000 and the pump bleed valve opens and it just dumps the excess oil? I don't know the name of this new pump, but it just keeps pumping and moving oil no matter the rpm and it does not work had at low rpm. I will know more about it next week.

What pump?

I don't know. He didn't offer to tell me and I didn't ask. I do know I will be buying one. There about $180.

Who did you talk to?

Well, I'm curious what you're talking about, too.

As far as I know, every fluid pumping system is going to have flow limitations set by the size (restriction) of the passage(s), the viscosity of the fluid being pumped, the max free-flow volume of the pump, the max volume of the pump working against some set pressure (a product of the fluid's viscosity and that restriction), and any pressure-based blow-off limitation built into the system.

If the existing pump is already pushing the max capacity of fluid given the system's internal restrictions, and in the processs also hitting the peak pressure estabilished by the blow-off mechanism, then the only thing another pump could do differently is create more pressure from using a higher blow-off setting. However, the volume of fluid wouldn't increase signficantly past a certain point due to the limitation mentioned above.

Volume improvements under that scenario would need to come from enlarging the internal passage, not from trying to force-feed more oil through the same size passage.

This mystery pump sounds ok, but id be asking why so many have no issues with the std melling pump or the hv melling pump.

Just say if 1000 racers builds use a melling pump and 999 use it without issues and 1 does id be looking cross eyed at the 1 because something is amiss with the 1. Im meaning something with the build/sum of parts itself.

Lets backtrack a bit.
Who built this motor?
Were the parts inspected with the proper tools and people prior to assembly?
What brought on the need to freshen things up?
How long has the current build been in service?

Im asking these things because I have dumped a lot into a couple oem blocks (should of went the race block from jump) however I have one id not give up for anything, a 4 bolted 1/2 filled 71 360 block that ive beat to death, had apart many times and kept the same coated bearings.

This is mainly do imo to good solid machine work.

All ive ever had to replace out of the norm was the small end bushings from on the gas off the gas at high rpm.


Instead of beating a dead horse id consider finding a good crank grinder/shop and in short order they can tell you what state your crank is currently and what it needs. Its what they do, day in, day out.

MRL Performance. I agree and know nothing more than I already mentioned. I think melling is a great pump but there is better. Titan but do I want to spend $800 for it. No. The pump mike has is said to be easier on bronze gears and is worth a few hp and feeds oil depending on rpm. I built this engine and best machine did most of the machine work. It went 8 years with 40 to 50 passes and some street miles.

Not claiming to be a pro engine builder. Just a hobbies with 6 engines built and no major failures. My tools are not the most expensive but get the job done. Craftsmen. My knowledge comes form this site as well as mopar performance books and other professional engine builders. The engine block and all components are getting checked and machined properly. Nothing gets throw together in my garage without getting checked and machined.

Maybe I missed it. How much bearing clearance did it have? How much oil pressure at what RPM level? Are the main bearing bore dimensions correct and in line? How was the assembly balanced? Studs or bolts? What crank? What rods? What oil pan? What oil? Many questions to answer here before someone decides it needs a "trick oil pump". To me it appears the crank is flexing with too little clearance causing irregular wear and metal transfer on mains #2 & #4. Rods appear to have been borderline on losing oil film causing the shiny spots but no metal transfer. Way more information needed to make a good repair. I will say that the bearings look very poor.
Doug

Yes, Dave, the reason I asked the question was because I think there's a good possibility that you're being sold something that won't have any effect except to lower your bank balance.

Whether the shop is ignorant or dishonest I don't know, but IMHO it has to be one of the two. Hate to sound harsh, but I do pumps for a living and my BS meter is off the charts.

Any time I hear about a $180 oil pump that resides in the oil pan like a stocker I have to wonder why. The Mopar design gearotor pump is a good one.

The other thing that sticks in my mind is that you are not going to get much difference in efficiency between any well-designed positive displacement pump. They have about the same efficiency across the board, and the gerotor pump is more efficient than the two gear type pump. Your existing pump is the gerotor type.

Good Luck,
R.

Don't out-trick yourself with trickery. I just took my engine apart after four years (2 years pump gas, 2 year alcohol) and my bearings looked GREAT. 35 dollar melling standard volume, standard pressure pump.

To add to this I will never use a Canton oil pan on my small block again without modifying it. I bought one after seeing how nice the small block Chevy one was when I built an engine for a Friend. The Mopar one was a piece of JUNK compared to it and my oil pressure was dropping like a turd when I left the line. I put it on hoping it would give me more room than my Milidon did with the 1 7/8 Hedmen headers so I could use a diaper. NEVER again and thank God for my Racpak or I may have not caught it.

.002 on both rods and mains. Used main studs. Had a local shop hone the mains. Eagle forged crank and rods. Moroso pan. Don't know how it was balanced but the guy that did it has a great rep. Brad Penn oil and now amsoil dominator 15/50.

Thanks for the heads up. My bs meter is also on but I'm going to take a look at it next week. Says he will have one to open up. Should be interesting. Been using melling 72hv precision pump. I'm familiar with the melling pump as iv had them apart.

Makes perfect sense to me. I will find out more next week.

How much pressure? To me .002 with 15/50 is tighter than I would run. Personally most of my stuff is about .0027-.0029 and I run 5w30.
Doug

Dave.... Did you say you used the Melling pump that a company called Precision blueprints?
Ran one of them in my old W5 motor and thought it was up to snuff.
I would be extremely suspect of a 180 dollar miracle oil pump, as I am sure you are as well.

Yes. That the same one. I want to see what he has but I do like what a have.

15 to 20 at idle hot. 55 at anything over 3000. 80 cold

Ive not had an Eagle crank that was good enough out of the box to run .002 on rods and mains, so the first go around it was 003.

But at the same time im having trouble with a "Quality" K1 kit and could of saved 8 bills with a eagle kit and been just as good.

One of the decent mopar shops told me if all was machined right and the crank was 10/10 .002 was doable and I had that one on the dyno just about a month ago.

Nice vid of your car as well. Since you have some micro scratches your going to take it in anyways and im sure you will get your answers.

Btw that's a good long run on your motor prior to this. The long runner I mentioned also had a Eagle forged kit in it as well.

when I bought the eagle crank I thought it was good right out of the box. over the yrs i'v learned better. the crank will be corrected and I would like to do some oil mods, but i'm still not sure which ones are most effective. I will check out MRL's pump and see what he thinks is so special about it. if I like I just might buy one, but it will have to be something very different. thanks for all your thoughts guys. its been helpful