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When you say "bumpsteer is not a problem" what do you mean? Did you measure it?

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The billet one could be modified into a drop arm by welding if it is 6061.

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No, I didn't measure it, but then agian it's not a racecar, it's a hot rod. I'm not a racer, I'm a regular car guy. Everyone seems to be chashing tenths...
Anyway, the bumpsteer is not a problem with this setup, we have bad roads here in Norway, so I know. It has less bumpsteer than my 2013 Audi A7.

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You have a very nice car!

What is your definition of bump steer?

This is a common subject of obscurity for many people and it would be helpful to hear which side you are coming from.


When I see a highly modified suspension with stacks of washers locating a tie rod end, I do tend to question the "it has less bump steer than a 2013 Audi" statement. It doesn't take much, at all, to induce bump steer in a suspension. Some people are luckier than others though!

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Thanks Goody
My defenision on bump steer is just how the car behaves on the street when I hit a hole or a bump in a corner. Does the car alter direction? Does the suspension get unsettled? Does it loose grip? No it doesn't. I might get to borrow a bump steer gauge to measure, but no promises

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Fair enough, it is something that can certainly be improved in most case, just keep it in mind. A setup like this is ripe to be dialed in.

I'm certain you have found the limitations of the car, it will not take every corner as fast as you want, right?

It would be worth checking into to be sure you are getting the most out of your setup, but if you're happy with it, drive the wheels off of it. I would!

I could see a machined and/or welded support to that spacer setup you have to the bottom side of the shown knuckle. Tap some threads and bolt it on there. It would help reduce your compliance and anything you can help the robustness of your steering is a good idea.

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I have the XV Level II. Had it on the car for 5 years or so. It's a very good suspension, I've raced the car on a roadcourse several times, I've used the car for vacation/long trips and just cruising the streets. The only thing I have done to it is change the stock (Corvette C5) uprights for LG Motorsports Billet drop spindles to get the rideheight right (with the right alignment). No bumpsteer issues whatsoever. I can highly recommend it.

I do agree that a proper setup stock suspension like Hotchkis or the XV Level I would be good alternatives and probably just as capable (have never tried one of those tho) on the streets. However the XV has the weight reduction and the Rack and Pinion that is just a dream to steer.


With the original C5 upright.


After a track session with rubber build-up on the tires.

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The billet one could be modified into a drop arm by welding if it is 6061. Might be 7075 though.

The tie rod spacers on this kit (as well as other kits) was one of the main reasons Tim and I never made the switch on his Valiant. It just seems like poor engineering practice to have your steering input made thru a long and unsupported lever arm. It would be interesting to see how much that are deflects during use. Maybe it isn't as much as I'm thinking.

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The billet one could be modified into a drop arm by welding if it is 6061. Might be 7075 though.

The tie rod spacers on this kit (as well as other kits) was one of the main reasons Tim and I never made the switch on his Valiant. It just seems like poor engineering practice to have your steering input made thru a long and unsupported lever arm. It would be interesting to see how much that are deflects during use. Maybe it isn't as much as I'm thinking.

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It probably is Andy, but not the load and resulting deflection during normal steering isn't a big concern. The concern is the large load transferred from the knuckle into the tie rods when you drop a wheel or both in a pot hole or washout. Huge spike in loads, especially if you are on the brakes. That's where I see the potential for a sudden failure and loss of control.

Food for thought on a different debate with coil-over conversions: The need to brace the shock towers and rails. The high loading in the front suspension comes when you compress into the jounce bumpers, which are mounted to the front rails. If you leave the jounce loads on the rail, I don't believe there is any reason to go crazy with the bracing for the towers. Do you need some? Absolutely. But again the real loads are still absorbed by the rails like Ma Mopar intended. Coil overs are introducing a slightly higher fatigue load into the towers but in the grand scheme, not much. Of course the only way to prove this is mega dollar data acquisition, it's much easier to throw a little more bracing at it.

Just a few thoughts from my experience in data acquisition and suspension testing.

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The same frame rails that are spot welded/ welded to the unibody that has flex! one of the reasons i mention the frame stiffening kits.

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Yeah, but Ma never intended the normal suspension loads to be handled by the shock tower. That intended load bearing part is the rear torsion bar mounts. So rather than a catastrophic failure due to shock loading I suspect a slow inward creep of the towers, much like early mudstains.

I'd suggest bracing be mandatory.

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Indeed!











Again the frame rails don't go all the way through on a unibody, this is why i like the UScartool frame rail connectors/stiffening kit so darn much. I have heard only good things about them.

Also ones of the reason i like the "strut bars" the Magnum force transgender kit too major down side being having to cut in the fender walls/wells if you wants turbos or so it seems form the photos i have seen since the strut bars do take up what can be valuable engine bay space.

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Thanks Goody
My defenision on bump steer is just how the car behaves on the street when I hit a hole or a bump in a corner. Does the car alter direction? Does the suspension get unsettled? Does it loose grip? No it doesn't. I might get to borrow a bump steer gauge to measure, but no promises

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http://shop.ronsuttonracetechnology.com/dimages/700x500-V5syM4A7a6vKI2cx207309.jpg

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The billet one could be modified into a drop arm by welding if it is 6061. Might be 7075 though.

The tie rod spacers on this kit (as well as other kits) was one of the main reasons Tim and I never made the switch on his Valiant. It just seems like poor engineering practice to have your steering input made thru a long and unsupported lever arm. It would be interesting to see how much that are deflects during use. Maybe it isn't as much as I'm thinking.

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It probably is Andy, but not the load and resulting deflection during normal steering isn't a big concern. The concern is the large load transferred from the knuckle into the tie rods when you drop a wheel or both in a pot hole or washout. Huge spike in loads, especially if you are on the brakes. That's where I see the potential for a sudden failure and loss of control.

Food for thought on a different debate with coil-over conversions: The need to brace the shock towers and rails. The high loading in the front suspension comes when you compress into the jounce bumpers, which are mounted to the front rails. If you leave the jounce loads on the rail, I don't believe there is any reason to go crazy with the bracing for the towers. Do you need some? Absolutely. But again the real loads are still absorbed by the rails like Ma Mopar intended. Coil overs are introducing a slightly higher fatigue load into the towers but in the grand scheme, not much. Of course the only way to prove this is mega dollar data acquisition, it's much easier to throw a little more bracing at it.

Just a few thoughts from my experience in data acquisition and suspension testing.

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I'm certain you have found the limitations of the car, it will not take every corner as fast as you want, right?

It would be worth checking into to be sure you are getting the most out of your setup, but if you're happy with it, drive the wheels off of it. I would!

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I haven't pushed it past it's limits yet, It handles more that I have balls to do. But I guess with those massive 335s in the rear it would eventually push the front end. So to answer your question; No, haven't found a corner that I tought I wanted to do faster! Not on the street anyway.

I am very happy with the setup. It has a 54.7/45.4% front/rear weight ratio, with an iron headed SB. I will cornerweigh and adjust the coilovers this summer. Then with the rideheight set I could use the bumpsteer gauge.

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That's some serious tire melting!!!

Joakim, was this with the new shock rebuild, or before?

On the bump steer shaft... You have to have some way to adjust it, you can't just figure what the best height is and mill the steering arm to it. If you did that, then you're ride height would have to fixed also.

That's a tapered shaft that fits into the C5/C6 upright, it's used on every kind of production car without issues... Think about the load on that tiny shaft inside that tie rod...

CR

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I'm certain you have found the limitations of the car, it will not take every corner as fast as you want, right?

It would be worth checking into to be sure you are getting the most out of your setup, but if you're happy with it, drive the wheels off of it. I would!

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I haven't pushed it past it's limits yet, It handles more that I have balls to do. But I guess with those massive 335s in the rear it would eventually push the front end. So to answer your question; No, haven't found a corner that I tought I wanted to do faster! Not on the street anyway.

I am very happy with the setup. It has a 54.7/45.4% front/rear weight ratio, with an iron headed SB. I will cornerweigh and adjust the coilovers this summer. Then with the rideheight set I could use the bumpsteer gauge.

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