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opinions on step headers #1769213 03/02/15 02:18 PM 03/02/15 02:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 774 Midland,Tx wyldebill OP super stock
wyldebill OP super stock Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 774 Midland,Tx	ive been told both direction, about step headers. some say it has no value, some say they make horsepower. anyone have any information proving or dis-proving claims?

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: wyldebill] #1769214 03/02/15 02:37 PM 03/02/15 02:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	I never did a side by side test on the dyno when I was building headers so I dont have data but I believe in them enough that I built a 3 set for the race car but I built a straight set for the street rod... this is just a opinion but I think they help if the tubes are equal length to set up the draw at the proper time which helps them

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1769215 03/02/15 02:43 PM 03/02/15 02:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	And I think they help reversion. I don't think they hurt in any case. R.

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: wyldebill] #1769216 03/02/15 02:59 PM 03/02/15 02:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,894 Florida Locomotion master
Locomotion master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,894 Florida	I'm a firm believer in "steps". A lot of Stock class cars have step header, some as small as 1 3/8" and go up 1 or 2 more sizes. Persoanlly I use the TTI 1 5/8" - 1 3/4" step headers on my 360. They have a broad application range. I've been 11-teens at 3,540 lbs. There is a dyno comparison of a variety of OEM exhaust manifolds and a few headers, including TTI, on a mild 360. The TTI step were several numbers better in HP and torque than 1 5/8" straight and 1 3/4" straight headers. But I'm at work and can't find it at the moment. As with anything else, the actual results can vary with each different application. Jetting may need to be different from straight headers. But I don't see where they hurt. Last edited by Locomotion; 03/02/15 03:00 PM.

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: wyldebill] #1769217 03/02/15 05:18 PM 03/02/15 05:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,928 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,928 NC	My 2-cents/opinion: If your application needs big tubes (ie final dia), then the step header from the initial dia stepped up to the final dia will perform better then a full length of the initial dia. Using a smaller initial dia can help with clearance to the header retaining bolts in some applications. I will also stick my neck out (opinion) that any gain from using a stepped header rather than a full length at the final/optimum dia will mostly be at levels at/below peak torque rather than near peak hp.

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: 440Jim] #1769218 03/02/15 05:34 PM 03/02/15 05:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH Taking time off to work on my car
BradH Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	That's a topic that could be the basis for a whole lotta R&D to filter out the opinions from the facts. The fact that they are used in specific top-level categories is a pretty good indicator that they work for certain combinations. How much of what works at that level still applies when you scale back the performance dramatically is a another question entirely... and one I'm in no position to answer from any position of knowledge.

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: BradH] #1769219 03/02/15 07:28 PM 03/02/15 07:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,894 Florida Locomotion master
Locomotion master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,894 Florida	Here is the Hot Rod dyno test article on a 360/300hp Mopar crate engine. Most of the info is listed with the pics. The dyno numbers are in the last one. I wish higher rpm numbers were available for this test or a stronger combo. Hot Rod Magazine exhaust dyno test.

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: Locomotion] #1769220 03/02/15 08:43 PM 03/02/15 08:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 170 renton , washington P perfmachst member
perfmachst member P Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 170 renton , washington	hi, a few years ago, had a friend with 383 dart stocker. it had step headers on it, 1 5/8, 1 3/4 with 3 " collector. changed to a 1 3/4, 1 7/8, 2" step header. it was worth 4 tenths over smaller headers. then added 3 1/2 dia by 16 " collector, picked up . 15 faster over 3" collector. like you say every car is different.

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: perfmachst] #1769221 03/02/15 08:50 PM 03/02/15 08:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: hi, a few years ago, had a friend with 383 dart stocker. it had step headers on it, 1 5/8, 1 3/4 with 3 " collector. changed to a 1 3/4, 1 7/8, 2" step header. it was worth 4 tenths over smaller headers. then added 3 1/2 dia by 16 " collector, picked up . 15 faster over 3" collector. like you say every car is different. In a LOT of cases the 3.5 collector works better(if its the correct length)... mainly due to RPM.. the 3" is just too small in most cases but thats what a lot of the header companies want to run(cost is one reason)... I put 3.5" on MOST of my headers or larger

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: wyldebill] #1769222 03/02/15 10:02 PM 03/02/15 10:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,770 Pa W Wv68charger top fuel
Wv68charger top fuel W Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,770 Pa	Trying to find the dyno sheets but when we went from big tubes on the dyno to TTI steps we lost 12 hp ended up having a set of equal length big tubes with 4 1/2 collectors made.

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: wyldebill] #1769223 03/02/15 10:50 PM 03/02/15 10:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 559 Idaho L LaRoy Engines mopar
LaRoy Engines mopar L Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 559 Idaho	I don't know what engine you are using and what rpm range you are running. I don't have an opinion. But I do have the results on a 600hp pump gas small block dyno test. When we switched from Summit Racing $136 1-5/8 headers to TTI 1-5/8" x 1-3/4" step headers we gained an average of 1 lb-ft and 1hp from 3,000-6,000 rpm. The peak horsepower difference was +12hp @ 6,300 rpm. But boy, for an extra $500 those TTI headers are really pretty.

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: LaRoy Engines] #1769224 03/02/15 11:06 PM 03/02/15 11:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: I don't know what engine you are using and what rpm range you are running. I don't have an opinion. But I do have the results on a 600hp pump gas small block dyno test. When we switched from Summit Racing $136 1-5/8 headers to TTI 1-5/8" x 1-3/4" step headers we gained an average of 1 lb-ft and 1hp from 3,000-6,000 rpm. The peak horsepower difference was +12hp @ 6,300 rpm. But boy, for an extra $500 those TTI headers are really pretty. Myself.. I dont call TTI headers very good.. they fit nice and are fairly easy to install... thats it and they sure arent made for max power... NO shelf header fits ALL

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1769225 03/02/15 11:07 PM 03/02/15 11:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,770 Pa W Wv68charger top fuel
Wv68charger top fuel W Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,770 Pa	https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post8275923

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: Wv68charger] #1769226 03/02/15 11:14 PM 03/02/15 11:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post8275923 MAYBE they are a closer match to that set up.. but that would be one set up... I will repeat... shelf headers dont fit all... they were designed on a single engine

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1769227 03/02/15 11:23 PM 03/02/15 11:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,770 Pa W Wv68charger top fuel
Wv68charger top fuel W Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,770 Pa	Quote: Quote: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post8275923 MAYBE they are a closer match to that set up.. but that would be one set up... I will repeat... shelf headers dont fit all... they were designed on a single engine I agree that's why we went with a custom set

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: perfmachst] #1769228 03/03/15 12:43 AM 03/03/15 12:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,846 MI, usa dvw master
dvw master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,846 MI, usa	Quote: hi, a few years ago, had a friend with 383 dart stocker. it had step headers on it, 1 5/8, 1 3/4 with 3 " collector. changed to a 1 3/4, 1 7/8, 2" step header. it was worth 4 tenths over smaller headers. then added 3 1/2 dia by 16 " collector, picked up . 15 faster over 3" collector. like you say every car is different. . The first set must have been crushed. That would be a roughly a 50-60 hp gain. 5 1/2 tenths ET reduction with a header an collector change? Smells a little fishy. Doug

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: dvw] #1769229 03/03/15 03:11 AM 03/03/15 03:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 774 Midland,Tx wyldebill OP super stock
wyldebill OP super stock Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 774 Midland,Tx	Here is the combo so far. 560 aluminum low deck, 12.5 to 1. Zeeker heads (-1) indy tunnel ram. A body should be under 3000 lbs. Manuel trans,and a conservative 3.73 gear. 10.5 slick. do you put the big tube on it to kill off a little bottom end?

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: wyldebill] #1769230 03/03/15 09:21 AM 03/03/15 09:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,846 MI, usa dvw master
dvw master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,846 MI, usa	Quote: Here is the combo so far. 560 aluminum low deck, 12.5 to 1. Zeeker heads (-1) indy tunnel ram. A body should be under 3000 lbs. Manuel trans,and a conservative 3.73 gear. 10.5 slick. do you put the big tube on it to kill off a little bottom end? It'll all depend on your suspension, 1st gear ratio in your trans, and if you have an adjustable clutch. 3.73 isn't much ratio for a stick car. If I could find more low end for my car I'd take it (15-1 572, 4.10, 3340lb, on 10.5) It currently runs 2 1/8" w/3 1/2" collector. Doug

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: wyldebill] #1769231 03/03/15 09:21 AM 03/03/15 09:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,928 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,928 NC	Quote: Here is the combo so far. 560 aluminum low deck, 12.5 to 1. Zeeker heads (-1) indy tunnel ram. A body should be under 3000 lbs. Manuel trans,and a conservative 3.73 gear. 10.5 slick. do you put the big tube on it to kill off a little bottom end? Chuck at BEST Machine dyno tested an engine close to that size with a couple pairs of headers. Do a search and see if your engine combo is close to his and the difference it made. As I recall, the really big tube headers made more peak HP, and lost torque below about 5900 rpm. With a high stall converter, you will hardly see that at the drag stripe. EDIT: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post8276607 1) 2.125 straight tubes 2) 2.125 stepped to 2.375 then to 2.500 big tubes 8447170-Dyno_572_Headers.jpg (66 downloads)

Re: opinions on step headers [Re: 440Jim] #1769232 03/03/15 12:28 PM 03/03/15 12:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 774 Midland,Tx wyldebill OP super stock
wyldebill OP super stock Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 774 Midland,Tx	im running a 2.45 first. the reason of the 3.73 is im going to try and drive it on dragweek. i dont have an overdrive. i can go to a shorter slick at the track to try and recover some gear. as far as the chassis goes. c/m k member with coilover shocks read in momo leif with assasin bars.there are guys running much faster than me with simmular components Last edited by wyldebill; 03/03/15 12:38 PM.

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