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Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga #1753553
02/13/15 05:11 AM
02/13/15 05:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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I took the advice of a few members and ordered up a bunch of retainers and locks to see how a few of the more popular brands stacked up on the height mic. First I'll introduce the contestants:

8427847-DSCN0293.JPG (375 downloads)
Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: Jeremiah] #1753554
02/13/15 05:16 AM
02/13/15 05:16 AM
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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I emailed Hughes (they CNC's my MW Victors to an advertised 370@.700) and Dave told me to pick out a smaller cam. Unfortunately it is a little late for that. Stupid me to consider that a head advertised to flow well at .700-.750 lift would be able to utilize a compatible valve spring without retainer clearance issues and a scrub pattern wider than a '70 New Yorker. Anyway, more contestants:

8427849-DSCN0294.JPG (333 downloads)
Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: Jeremiah] #1753555
02/13/15 05:21 AM
02/13/15 05:21 AM
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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There are a few items that will be listed but not pictured. If you are curious and don't see that particular retainer in the pic just ask and I'll get one.

The often loved and even more often scorn lash cap and accompanying lock. Also note how the non-lash cap TI retainer is super light weight due to the recess near the top of the locks.

All of this stuff is 11/32" super 7 and 10 degree fyi.

8427852-DSCN0295.JPG (277 downloads)
Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: Jeremiah] #1753556
02/13/15 05:24 AM
02/13/15 05:24 AM
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aotearoa
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those Tool Steel retainers really help gain clearence. swapped out my titiainium for them. so far i'm impressed.

Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: rebel] #1753557
02/13/15 05:47 AM
02/13/15 05:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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Quote:

those Tool Steel retainers really help gain clearence. swapped out my titiainium for them. so far i'm impressed.




Are those Manley titanium 10 degree locks as well? How much spring pressure are you running? Thank you for the feedback!

Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: Jeremiah] #1753558
02/13/15 06:08 AM
02/13/15 06:08 AM
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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I converted the .xls file to a PDF so it could be attached. If you want the excel file hit me up.

Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: Jeremiah] #1753559
02/13/15 06:13 AM
02/13/15 06:13 AM
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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I also found an interesting item of interest on my Hughes 1.7 ratio rockers. It seems that the offset intake rocker has a much shallower roller wheel compared to the non-offset exhaust rocker. This effectively KILLS rocker to retainer clearance.

8427860-DSCN0271.JPG (281 downloads)
Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: Jeremiah] #1753560
02/13/15 06:14 AM
02/13/15 06:14 AM
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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Jeremiah  Offline OP
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Now to my question...why?

8427861-DSCN0273.JPG (330 downloads)
Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: Jeremiah] #1753561
02/13/15 06:25 AM
02/13/15 06:25 AM
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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This is Tensilmax light weight retainer with .030 shims under the rocker shaft (see pic). This is the only setup I found that will clear the intake rocker and still let you use a .750 (gross) lift cam. My favorite combo that was not only light weigh but also put me right around a 2.00" or better installed height was the Manley light weight super 7 TI retainer. Unfortunately as rebel pointed out above it has rocker clearance issues to the tune of about .050 on the exhaust and .070 on the intake without any rocker shaft shims.

8427864-DSCN0280.JPG (294 downloads)
Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: Jeremiah] #1753562
02/13/15 06:30 AM
02/13/15 06:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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And here we are down at .750 net lift running off the edge of the map. I'm working with B3RE to correct this.

8427865-DSCN0285.JPG (347 downloads)
Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: Jeremiah] #1753563
02/13/15 10:07 AM
02/13/15 10:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline
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Quote:

Now to my question...why?



Uhhhh... 'cuz somebody effed up?

I'll check my Hughes offset intakes & standard exhausts and see if there is a similar issue, but I don't recall noticing anything wrong when they've been mocked up on a head before.

Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: Jeremiah] #1753564
02/13/15 11:54 AM
02/13/15 11:54 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Have you checked out spring cups for thinner ones? Sounds like you are close to having plenty of clearance. How much lift is on your cam?


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: Jeremiah] #1753565
02/13/15 12:53 PM
02/13/15 12:53 PM
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Central California
MoParFish Offline
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Sorry you are having problems. That's odd that the rollers are different height. Like many Victor guys it seems, I have a love/hate relationship with mine. You may have read my combo before and I run a smaller cam but, if helps at all, here's my valvetrain combo:
solid roller .421 lobe lift w/1.6 HS rockers = .674 lift.
Trick Flow springs TFS-16943-16(which are actually PAC-1243)installed at 1.900,
Comp tool steel retainers 1732-16
Comp 4785-16 locators
611-16 locks
621-16 lash caps,
Smith Bros .375x.083 pushrods
Harland Sharp S70016EVK rockers.
No spring/retainer clearance issues even without lash caps. I decided to run the caps only because the sharp rockers sweep the roller from the center toward the outer tips of the valves at full lift and wanted more contact. I'm sure it's not the ideal setup but seems to be working OK. Has been to 7400 RPM a couple times but keep it below 7k now.

8427975-valve.JPG (233 downloads)

Sworn Member Central Valley MoPar Drag Pack. You can reach me at (done-et-chasing@going-rounds.gone)... :-)

[img]https://s6.postimg.org/v3mbggksx/SAC16.jpg[/img]image hosting more than 5mb
Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: gregsdart] #1753566
02/13/15 01:16 PM
02/13/15 01:16 PM
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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Quote:

Have you checked out spring cups for thinner ones? Sounds like you are close to having plenty of clearance. How much lift is on your cam?




I am using .045 spring seats and those are the thinnest I could find. The cam is only .741/.718 net lift accounting for lash. I'm there, just need to get the pattern sorted out.

Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: Jeremiah] #1753567
02/13/15 02:19 PM
02/13/15 02:19 PM
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Posts: 9,986
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Quote:

Quote:

Have you checked out spring cups for thinner ones? Sounds like you are close to having plenty of clearance. How much lift is on your cam?




I am using .045 spring seats and those are the thinnest I could find. The cam is only .741/.718 net lift accounting for lash. I'm there, just need to get the pattern sorted out.



Good to hear you are OK. Things that crossed my mind besides the cups are just how much room there might be (if any) to cut the pockets, or even them out. Seems like a lot of us are always looking to go faster, and lift is a big part of that.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: gregsdart] #1753568
02/13/15 02:49 PM
02/13/15 02:49 PM
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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With the CNC porting there is not much room for cutting the spring pocket. They are also all over the place. I am going to figure this out so the next guy doesn't get in the jam that some of us have with these heads. I figure by the time I get the rocker arm geometry figured out the valve covers, headers and push rods won't fit.

Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: MoParFish] #1753569
02/13/15 03:16 PM
02/13/15 03:16 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:

... I decided to run the caps only because the sharp rockers sweep the roller from the center toward the outer tips of the valves at full lift and wanted more contact.



That's an example of the HS rockers being too long between the shaft pivot C/L and the roller tip pivot C/L, unfortunately.

Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: Jeremiah] #1753570
02/13/15 03:16 PM
02/13/15 03:16 PM
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Aurora, Colorado
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This weekend I am going to cut up an old set of valves, drill and tap the head portion and weld a 1/4"x20 tpi bolt to the stem to make some adjustable length mockup valves for my Victor heads, so I could mockup the rocker arm height for the max wedge rocker arm blocks. I just need to check if my old valves (from my B1 B/S heads) are 11/32" or 3/8"?

Be careful using the rocker arm shims. I'm not sure if that is why I split the center rocker stand on my old set of victor heads.
I will say this new set looks like a better casting quality than the old set.

Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: 451Mopar] #1753571
02/13/15 03:25 PM
02/13/15 03:25 PM
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CT
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Not trying to troll you here but I don't think you would have had the clearance issue if you were running Harland Sharp rockers. They don't have a gentle radius like the Hughes pieces. They cost literally 2X + as much though


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga [Re: GTX MATT] #1753572
02/13/15 09:53 PM
02/13/15 09:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,828
MI, usa
dvw Online content
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Wouldn't take a free pair of Victors. I can't believe in this day and age that a major company could not only design but build a part that is so screwed up. Guess they never heard of CAD
Doug

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