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Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: DaveRS23] #1747093
02/06/15 01:32 PM
02/06/15 01:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 588
Franklin, TN
23T Hemmee Offline
mopar
23T Hemmee  Offline
mopar

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 588
Franklin, TN
Quote:

He spec'd a 10-71 on this 505" engine. So, based on that, I wouldn't think that a 6-71 would be too bad on a non-race 426.

Don't the 10-71s have a bigger base than the 6-71? Are there intakes still out there for the different blower bases?

http://www.goodvibesracing.com/




Just an FYI, in the original Detroit Diesel terminology the 6-71 blower sizing referred to 6 cylinders displacing 71 cubic inches per cylinder per revolution, oddly enough exactly 426 inches. Not an exact science for sure, but a decent 6-71 would be more than adequate for a streetable setup on gas without a lot of overdrive. The stud pattern on the manifolds are all the same from 6-71's to 14's. The openings are the difference with the larger blowers obviously having longer openings, at least on the older standard helix blowers. On the top side, the bolt spacing front to back on the 6's and 8's is 13.25" and on 10's through 14-71's the bolt spacing is 15.25" so you have to take that into account when you shop for a carb spacer.

X2 on GoodVibrations, also you might look at www.RBSSuperchargers.com


Ronny
6.789 @ 198.63 **.956 Brand New 60'***
4.17@ 169 1/8th mile
John 14:6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUku_hjYRh8
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: ] #1747094
02/06/15 01:59 PM
02/06/15 01:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
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State of confusion
Quote:

Speaking from just a little experience, piecing a blown hemi motor together has proven very costly many a $$ wasted. I had Dan (performance only) doing the build and even discussed with him before buying parts and when he received them I know he didn't even bother looking at them because they turned out be sh!!t or the wrong part. I have bought parts from members that turned out to be sh!t and am not in a position to argue because Dan is gone. I bought a used blower and was told it was great and everything was redone, had it shipped to Littlefield and turned out it needed a new snout, restripping and a few other things. If you are a newbie like me save yourself the grief and a lot of money and just deal with a reputable builder as close to you as possible, even if it's just for buying the parts but be careful because even with a builder you can still be taken for a fool.




Agree and the few that run em seem WAY slower than they should be especially when little wedge`s can out run em............just statin the facts.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: 23T Hemmee] #1747095
02/06/15 02:42 PM
02/06/15 02:42 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
Twostick  Offline
Still wishing...

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Quote:

Quote:

He spec'd a 10-71 on this 505" engine. So, based on that, I wouldn't think that a 6-71 would be too bad on a non-race 426.

Don't the 10-71s have a bigger base than the 6-71? Are there intakes still out there for the different blower bases?

http://www.goodvibesracing.com/




Just an FYI, in the original Detroit Diesel terminology the 6-71 blower sizing referred to 6 cylinders displacing 71 cubic inches per cylinder per revolution, oddly enough exactly 426 inches. Not an exact science for sure, but a decent 6-71 would be more than adequate for a streetable setup on gas without a lot of overdrive. The stud pattern on the manifolds are all the same from 6-71's to 14's. The openings are the difference with the larger blowers obviously having longer openings, at least on the older standard helix blowers. On the top side, the bolt spacing front to back on the 6's and 8's is 13.25" and on 10's through 14-71's the bolt spacing is 15.25" so you have to take that into account when you shop for a carb spacer.

X2 on GoodVibrations, also you might look at www.RBSSuperchargers.com




A 6-71 Detroit is only 426 cubes but it also only turns 2100 RPM.

The problem you are going to run into with that size blower is in order to get enough boost out of it to make your number (if it is even possible), you are going to have to overdrive the wee out of it. That will generate an astronomical amount of intake air temp. Not good.

You need to figure out what RPM you are comfortable building the motor for and then how much boost it will take to make 850 hp.

I would try to size the blower to make that boost number at 1:1.

Kevin

Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: Twostick] #1747096
02/06/15 03:28 PM
02/06/15 03:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 588
Franklin, TN
23T Hemmee Offline
mopar
23T Hemmee  Offline
mopar

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 588
Franklin, TN
My bad....somewhere along the way I missed the part about wanting 850HP. I was under the impression the OP was just looking for a warmed over street combination and already had a 6-71.


Ronny
6.789 @ 198.63 **.956 Brand New 60'***
4.17@ 169 1/8th mile
John 14:6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUku_hjYRh8
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: His and Her 69's] #1747097
02/06/15 03:52 PM
02/06/15 03:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,204
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
The original aftermarket 6:71 came in two size, standard size case and large bore cases, which one is for sale ? I dyno tested a LS6 BB 454 Chevy that had a small bore 6:71 on it with two 650 Holley double pumpers, I got it to make 720 HP at 7 lbs with 15% overdrive at 6500 RPM on CA pump gas, it made a tiny bit over 600 HP at 3 lbs of boost at 6000 RPM. My point is your better off running the bigger blower slower to make the same boost and keep the manifold inlet temps down Think of the blower like a Carb, at part throttle you control how much air the motor sees, at WOT throttle the smallest parts in the inatke system limit the air flow As far as the blower size on any Hemi, 1st,2nd, or 3rd Gen I would run the biggest I thought I would ever want, buy it once As already mentioned when you get into blowers the standard street blowers will have standard rotors in them, if you want to hop the motor up later with the same blower you can have them converted to High Helix for more air flow Speeding the blower up to make more power is okay to a certain point, when the manifold inlet temps get out of hand by speeding the blower up to make more boost on gasoline you will hurt the motor On your motor now with a large bore 6:71 to make 7lbs you might need 20% overdrive and have MIT of 250 F , using a standard 10:71 you may need 3% over drive to make the same amount of (7 lbs) boost with 130 F inlet temps Buy the bigger one Besides you know bigger is more impressive, correct


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: 23T Hemmee] #1747098
02/06/15 03:53 PM
02/06/15 03:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
D
DusterDave Offline
top fuel
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
I think an 8-71 would work great on that size engine.
My street driven 528 Hemi Duster had a cough-cough....BDS 8-71 street blower (non-stripped). It's best pass was a "not clean at all" 9.16 at 3,400 lbs. That was with 11 lbs. of boost.


Gone to the dark side with an LS3 powered '57 Chevy 210
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: DusterDave] #1747099
02/06/15 04:57 PM
02/06/15 04:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
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hemi-itis  Offline
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Great Neck,LI,new york
I am NO expert,but I did stay in a holiday inn once
My 545 stock iron headed hemi made a little over 900hp with 10 lbs of boost.

8421100-DYNODAY4LBS.jpg (72 downloads)

HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: hemi-itis] #1747100
02/07/15 12:30 AM
02/07/15 12:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 588
Franklin, TN
23T Hemmee Offline
mopar
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Franklin, TN
Looks like 721HP on the dyno sheet, just sayin'....


Ronny
6.789 @ 198.63 **.956 Brand New 60'***
4.17@ 169 1/8th mile
John 14:6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUku_hjYRh8
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: 23T Hemmee] #1747101
02/07/15 01:22 AM
02/07/15 01:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
JAX FLA
Curt Offline
super stock
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Posts: 1,030
JAX FLA
Think it says 4psi...
Curt


Oh yeah...THAT'S gonna leave a mark!
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: hemi-itis] #1747102
02/07/15 01:23 AM
02/07/15 01:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,204
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Bend,OR USA
Quote:

I am NO expert,but I did stay in a holiday inn once
My 545 stock iron headed hemi made a little over 900hp with 10 lbs of boost.


If you where runnng the pulleys like mark on the top of that sheet I would say it was 19.4 % underdriven which would make since with 4 lbs of boost like marked on the top of that sheet The last 426 Street Hemi motor(484 C.I. I think, 4.25 bore with 4.375 stroke ))I built and dyno tested made 7.0 lbs boost at 7300 RPM with 12 % undrive pulleys on it and it made 924 HP at 7300 RPM with a 10:71 Littlefield street blower and two 1150 Carb Shop blower Dominator carbs using CA pump swill with 33 degrees total timing. We swapped the pulleys (to 13% overdrive)and dyno it with VP C12 race gas and the motor made 1027 HP at 6500 RPM with 25 degrees total timing making 12 lbs of boost, it started to detonate after 6500 RPM so we stop the pull The manifold inlet temps where getting hotter also with the increase amount blower speed and boost I ended up swapping the pulleys back to 12 % underdrive and told the customer to get good at handling that amout of power in his car and when he got another set of wheels and real race tires( his car had a set of M/T 17x29x15 Sportman Pro on 15 inch wide wheels then ) it to call me to hop it up more later. He sold the car before getting the motor running in the car That orange 1971 Cuda ended up being featured in one of the smaller Mopar related magazines, A chef in Plam Springs ,CA bought it and had someone else finish the car according to the magazine article. I talked to the original owner after he sent me a copy of that magazine and ask him about the changes to his old motor, he said there was no changes to the motor, it was installed and ran as it was the day it came off the dyno the day we dyno tested it Hemi motors need air and fuel to make power, more air and fuel makes more power


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: Curt] #1747103
02/07/15 01:27 AM
02/07/15 01:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
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hemi-itis  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
Quote:

Think it says 4psi...
Curt




Thats right Curt,that was 4 lbs on pump junk.
Here's the 10 pounder

8421652-10LBS.jpg (61 downloads)

HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: hemi-itis] #1747104
02/07/15 01:46 AM
02/07/15 01:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
I Live Here
hemi-itis  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
Cab,was that with iron heads?Seems like 12 lbs is the ceiling before the heat factor.I'm thinking water/meth to raise the ceiling a tad.
So far my 3900 lb brick has managed a best et of 9.88 and 140 mph with a terrible 60 ft.6.4's in the 1/8 @ 112mph.
Want to try some more boost and find that ceiling

8421669-9.28.14018.jpg (46 downloads)

HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: hemi-itis] #1747105
02/07/15 02:22 AM
02/07/15 02:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,204
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,204
Bend,OR USA
Be careful in your pursuit I don't want to post pictures of parts I've broken in the pursuit of going faster, it may make some grown men on here cry Watch the sprak plugs closely


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1747106
02/07/15 02:28 AM
02/07/15 02:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
top fuel
Mopar_Rich  Offline
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Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Here's mine.

Last edited by Mopar_Rich; 02/07/15 02:29 AM.
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: Mopar_Rich] #1747107
02/07/15 02:34 AM
02/07/15 02:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
And one of my customers with his beautiful CUDA (did I say Challenger?)

8421694-Launch800pix.jpg (113 downloads)
Last edited by Mopar_Rich; 02/07/15 08:00 PM.
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: Mopar_Rich] #1747108
02/07/15 11:19 AM
02/07/15 11:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,145
Arizona, USA
gsmopar Offline
super stock
gsmopar  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,145
Arizona, USA
Quote:

And one of my customers with his beautiful Challenger.




Challenger?

Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: Mopar_Rich] #1747109
02/07/15 01:12 PM
02/07/15 01:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,608
Rudolph, Ohio
moparguy7074 Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 1,608
Rudolph, Ohio
Quote:

And one of my customers with his beautiful Challenger.




Ummmm, no.

Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: moparguy7074] #1747110
02/07/15 07:58 PM
02/07/15 07:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
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Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Well THAT'S embarrassing. Maybe I had too much coffee today. His race team is even called "Team Cuda". I need a drink!

Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: Mopar_Rich] #1747111
02/07/15 08:45 PM
02/07/15 08:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,204
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,204
Bend,OR USA
Quote:

Well THAT'S embarrassing. Maybe I had too much coffee today. His race team is even called "Team Cuda". I need a drink!


I'm glad it is you on posting the wrong car picure and not my memory again I need my old memory back, not the defective one I have now


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: blown hemi questions ?? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1747112
02/08/15 12:53 AM
02/08/15 12:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,559
Oh
H
His and Her 69's Offline OP
pro stock
His and Her 69's  Offline OP
pro stock
H

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,559
Oh
Thanks Guys for the info.
Cab said I would be lucky to hit the 850 HP range. I would be OK with that but I have no HP goals with this engine yet. It is still in the planning stages.
I am guessing I can get the hat and blower for around 1500 from my talks with my friend. Nothing is finalized yet as I need to see if the stuff is good and will work for my plans. If it all needs a bunch of work I will give it back to him and just keep looking or buy new when I get to that point.

I am guessing the coupe will be less then 3000 lbs and I really don't have the desire to get everything needed to run 9.90 or faster but I will be Happy if it does. I don't think that ET will be that hard to run. The car will have a good cage in it for safety so if I get the desire to run it faster later the chassis will handle it.
I want the car to have a Killer look to it then worry about power after that.

Again Thanks as it gives me things to think about and check into. I Appreciate all the info. I didn't know what the air inlet temps would be like doing this combo so that info was good. Thanks
David

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