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Re: 5.7 Hemi in a 67 Barracuda
[Re: ZIPPY]
#17628
08/21/06 08:29 AM
08/21/06 08:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
They are the same thing....
MIL= Malfunction Indicator Lamp (the proper dcx term)
CEL= Check Engine Light (general shop term for all brands)
MP wanted to make it easy as possible for guys with older cars to install the crate motor, so they stripped the PCM down to the bare essentials to make it run in that application, and made it 100% simpler than the production wiring/computer. Open loop/no
02 sensors at all. Pretty much all your sensor readings are on the intake side + temperature related stuff. Must use a hydraulic shifted trans, also.
Also earlier there was a comment from somebody above who believed the 2 crate engine intake manifolds might be the same....they are machined differently so I guess that'd mean they aren't the same. The EFI manifold is machined for injectors wheras the carb manifold is not...not to argue or be contrary, just fyi/general info.
so how the heck are you supposed to tune it without any feedback? and where do you get any advantage of EFI without feedback from O2 sensors? seems like a waste to me. 
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: 5.7 Hemi in a 67 Barracuda
[Re: patrick]
#17629
08/21/06 09:44 AM
08/21/06 09:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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My gut feeling is that it's got a solid tune based on a stone-stock 5.7L Hemi. Maybe it's rich enough to use headers and a good exhaust, I ASSume that the engineers that put that tune together could see that writing on the wall. Narrow-band O2 is primarily useful in emissions calibrations to keep the cats happy, and that happens at 14.7:1. Best power and best economy both occur elsewhere, so if the calibration is ON, it ought to be a great running engine. Most narrow-band O2 cars drop in to open loop at WOT, so it's the same type of system at that point. Clair BTW, Daty, How's it looking for the Mini Nats? Time is slipping away over here, and the gap between what I've got to do and the time I've got to do it in keeps getting wider. I hope you're in better shape. Check out my high-dollar masking tape holder, as of about 4PM yesterday... 
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Re: 5.7 Hemi in a 67 Barracuda
[Re: ZIPPY]
#17631
08/21/06 07:22 PM
08/21/06 07:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,442
Texas
Daty Rogers
OP
World's Greatest Husband. I love you Robyn
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OP
World's Greatest Husband. I love you Robyn
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,442
Texas
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Quote:
Off the top of my head, I have no idea.
Do you have the schematic? It should have come with one.
If not we can probably dig one up.
it came with a schematic but shows general line running and not individual wires, I'll call MP tomorrow and see if they have something more detailed than what came with the motor.
-Daty
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Re: 5.7 Hemi in a 67 Barracuda
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#17632
08/22/06 09:21 AM
08/22/06 09:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
My gut feeling is that it's got a solid tune based on a stone-stock 5.7L Hemi. Maybe it's rich enough to use headers and a good exhaust, I ASSume that the engineers that put that tune together could see that writing on the wall. Narrow-band O2 is primarily useful in emissions calibrations to keep the cats happy, and that happens at 14.7:1. Best power and best economy both occur elsewhere, so if the calibration is ON, it ought to be a great running engine. Most narrow-band O2 cars drop in to open loop at WOT, so it's the same type of system at that point.
Clair
BTW, Daty,
How's it looking for the Mini Nats? Time is slipping away over here, and the gap between what I've got to do and the time I've got to do it in keeps getting wider. I hope you're in better shape. Check out my high-dollar masking tape holder, as of about 4PM yesterday...
true, NB O2's are really only useful around stoich. but that's precisely why I'd want EFI--to have a consistant stoich part throttle A/F ratio independent of ambient temp, humidity, fuel formulation, etc. to maximize economy. WOT on most OEM systems (except maybe some of the latest ones) go open loop anyways so then you're looking at your a/f ratio only being as good as your map. buut, if open loop varies from 11:1 to 13:1 depending on humidity, bariometric pressure, ambient temp, fuel formulation, etc. it probably won't make too much difference in performance, but it would make a HUGE difference in part throttle economy (fuel mileage). as it is with my carb (600 eddie), I need to swap needles in the spring and fall as the temp drops, and the gas formulations are changed. I don't see how running open loop efi would alleviate that--except it would be uploading a "summer" map and a "winter" map.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: 5.7 Hemi in a 67 Barracuda
[Re: patrick]
#17633
08/22/06 09:49 AM
08/22/06 09:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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I'd bet on the open loop map is probably 13:1 out of the box at worst, with a target of somewhere around 14.7:1 under most light-medium throttle situations. You're not going to get your best mileage at 14.7:1, you'd need to be much leaner, like 16-17:1 for that. You can run that lean with no problems IF you're running light throttle and lots of advance. Unfortunately, that's not where the cat converters do their best work, and certain emissions (NOx, I think) go up. My understanding is that GM got hammered for this back in the 80's-90's because they programmed in a "highway mode" on their EFI systems, and although it got better mileage, it didn't meet EPA's req's. I think that's a shame, since you really have to be steady-state + light-throttle for a while to kick in to highway mode. That was also open-loop, but the computer would check back periodically by going back closed on some regular basis. I think this functionality is still in the GM codes, just disabled.
That's neither here nor there for Daty's setup. I think with a MAP giving a baseline baro every time you start up, air intake temp, and a known VE for the engine, you really don't NEED an O2 if you're not running cats.
Clair
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Re: 5.7 Hemi in a 67 Barracuda
[Re: Daty Rogers]
#17636
08/22/06 12:30 PM
08/22/06 12:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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Dont know if it was posted, but what does the MP crate hemi 5.7 go for? is there a 6.1 coming?
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: 5.7 Hemi in a 67 Barracuda
[Re: Daty Rogers]
#17639
08/24/06 07:37 AM
08/24/06 07:37 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430
St Charles MO
70Coronet500Vert
master
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master
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,430
St Charles MO
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Thanks for post Daty.
I have a 13yr old that wants a mopar. The idea cooking in my overheated little head is to get a 5.7 for the coronet, I want the EFI, and swap the 360 into whatever car we get him.
So I am paying attention to these threads and hope they make it to the best of Moparts!
No matter how responsible he may seem, never give your gun to a monkey!
1970 Coronet Vert
1972 Charger
1974 Satellite Sebring Plus Sundance
2001 Ram 4x4
2002 Intrepid
2006 300C
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Re: 5.7 Hemi in a 67 Barracuda
[Re: Daty Rogers]
#17642
08/25/06 12:53 PM
08/25/06 12:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,841
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,841
S.E. Michigan
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Quote:
Zippy is going to tech archive this entire thread one of these days
Soon as you're done
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Re: 5.7 Hemi in a 67 Barracuda
[Re: ZIPPY]
#17643
08/26/06 09:56 AM
08/26/06 09:56 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,106
michigan
440whiteboy
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,106
michigan
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daty didnt you tell zippy that we were done for- before we started! ha ha
They only see Stars...
when hit by a Mopar!
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