416 INDY 245RP Head Dyno #'s.....
#173038
12/22/08 08:47 PM
12/22/08 08:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
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Ran a 245 Raised Port INDY head motor for first time today..... Little background on the combo, it came to me as a fresh motor complete with 7 dyno pulls on it in NY. It made 580's HP @ 6200RPM, 520's TQ & owner was'nt happy with power & had me go through it & make changes. Basic combo as ran today: R3, 59* 4.07" bore, 4.0" MP/SCAT 4340 crank. Eagle 6.123" H beams W/L19's Ross off shelf 4.07" Dome 4" crank pistons, 1/16" 3/16" rings, no gas ports etc. 12.6:1 compression Mancini 8 QT pan ATI damper Mezziere water pump/MSD Dist/wires/ignition Bullet Roller cam 276/280 @ .050", .712"/.692" on 108 Crane Ultra Pros, Comp 3/8 Pushrods INDY 245RP CNC heads OOB W/SDSS 5 angle VJ & blend 68 CC chamber T&D 1.5 rockers, INDY 360-3R manifold port matched Ran two different sets of headers, first set were my dyno headers, 1 7/8" into 2" steps with 3.5" collectors. Second set are custom made by chassis shop for this guys car with 4" engine setback, 1 3/4" into 1 7/8" step with 3" collectors. Ran 2 different carbs..... first was 1000 Race Demon modifed for E85 use 2nd was OOB 1050 Quickfuel gasoline Drag carb Things I changed from original 580HP tune when it was originally built by shop in NY: Changed intake valves from 2.10" to 2.150", exhausts from 1.65 down to 1.625. Replaced INDY's Valve job with SDSS 5 angle valve job on heads, hand blend exhaust seats Port match intake manifold to RP port window, from INDY's std port match job Re-hone Barton honed block for proper cyl wall finish with TQ plate. (was very rough cross hatch, rings never seated on first build) Changed pushrods from 5/16" generic hand mades to .080" Comp 3/8 Hi-techs Replaced 271/275 @ .050", .627"/.639" Comp MM lobe Flat tappet with custom Bullet roller 276/280@ .050", .712"/.692" on 108 Change springs/retainers/locks/cups over to roller setup 240 seat/600 open, tool steel retainers etc. Put set of Crane 59* Ultra Pros in it New set of Total Seal AP Stainless Nitrous series rings, setup for small N20 shot. 1000 Demon sent out for 85 Conversion (shop found 2 boosters left 1/2 machined by Barry Grant & fixed that) Basically just put a roller in it & fix cyl wall/ring seal issues, fix attention to detail items..... Real simple basic motor, NO trick parts in it, only "custom" part in it not right out of a catalog was the cam I designed.... everything else was right off the shelf & thrown together with attention to detail. 1st pull I'll post is best pull we could get with the 1000 Demon on E85... We spent alot of time reworking fuel curve on this thing to get it rich enough, finally got it there with some mondo jetting, but was pretty darn lean OOB from shop that converted it. I think this was winter blend E85... (just got it out of pump in State College this AM, E85 not easy to acquire in PA) so I don't know exact blend, we did test the specific gravity, it was around .785 if I recall. I was thinking it would make 665 before we started the day on E85 & maybe 650 on gas, so we were in ballpark I thought on the E85 after all tuning. This was with the big tube dyno headers, we never ran it with small headers with the E85. This was with 39 degrees timing & 2" HVH super Sucker. We tried timing from 28 to 41, it liked 39-40 best on E85. Shop that converted carb did'nt quite seem to anticipate amount of power the motor would make I think.... We were outside reasonable jetting window by a bunch to get it rich enough. We told them it would make around 650 HP, which was mistake, because on their Land & Sea dyno, our 650s would be more like 720's to them. So kind of our mistake on not giving them better info on carb setup maybe.... although that does'nt excuse all 4 high speed air bleeds being so loose they were vibrating out of carb (luckily I cought that) Anyhow here the E85 #'s from best pull....
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Re: 416 INDY 245RP Head Dyno #'s.....
[Re: RyanJ]
#173039
12/22/08 08:52 PM
12/22/08 08:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
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I felt/feel the RP head with it's 2.75" of cross section & 245 runners was hurting TQ a bit, seemed little off what I'd have liked to see. Did pick up little later, but overall the head is a BIG head for a 4.07 bore 416, but power was good, TQ just suffered a little as I'd expect.
Here is is motor in same tune, 39 timing, Big tube dyno headers, just changed to Sunoco HCR+ race gas & a Box stock 1050 Quickfuel dominator for a quick glance to see what the fuel & carb change would do:
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Re: 416 INDY 245RP Head Dyno #'s.....
[Re: RyanJ]
#173041
12/22/08 09:06 PM
12/22/08 09:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
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Then last pull of day we pulled at 300 a second.... normally I pull everything at 600, & we almost never see a change going to 300/sec, usually I lose tiny amt of power at 300.... this motor picked TQ way up & power was also up. This was exact same tune as pull before it, 39 timing, 1050 dominator on gas with the small TTI look alike headers.....
Overall impressions of E85 is it's a neat fuel, paid $1.23 a gallon today for it, we used 6 gallons for 8 minutes of warm up time & 12 pulls. Does'nt stink as bad as I was told it did, it was'nt happy starting in dyno cell in 20 degree air when motor was cold but... gas does'nt like to start that cold either. Pretty neat fuel, just need to make sure carb is setup to move enough fuel for what you're doing.... We ended up with jets drilled out in the .142" range...
Was surpsied the convoluted small tube headers really did not hurt power at all.... Going to be doing some more testing next month with some W5TTI's VS the Sprint headers on a 700+ HP motor. We'll see how that pans out.
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Re: 416 INDY 245RP Head Dyno #'s.....
[Re: rt66jim]
#173043
12/22/08 09:19 PM
12/22/08 09:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
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Quote:
Very interesting. Would you care to disclose who prepped the carb for E85? Inquiring minds would like to know. Jim
PM me if you want...
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Re: 416 INDY 245RP Head Dyno #'s.....
[Re: 1976 Aspen]
#173047
12/22/08 10:04 PM
12/22/08 10:04 PM
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RyanJ
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Quote:
I hope my 230's can perform the same or better than that combo with a little more ci and a bit more compression
Your motor is basically the same except like you said another 7 CID? But you got 4.04 bore... that's why I really would'nt/did'nt want to run the RP head on your deal, plus your car is so damn heavy, you need the TQ, that this one lacked a bit of. This thing's going in a 2800 lbs Duster so TQ not a big concern as in a 3400# car. The 230's will make better TQ I'm certain, & power won't be too far off, it won't quite carry power like this one did to 7400+ because of the big CSA on the 245 head VS the 230 head but that does'nt matter. Your & G. Bell's cam is virtually identical to this one (all 276/280's) but this one was slightly different in I ran faster ramps on it because it had 1.5 rockers, where as you guys have 1.6's. Your peak TQ should be down in the 5100-5200 range with the 4.125 stroke & the 230 CNC head. not up in the 5800-5900's like this RP head.
This was good running motor for what it is, I was pleased. Wish we had little more time to ring it out on Gas after jacking around all day on E85 but... it worked well. That Gas Carb belongs to 369CfmW7 who's 449" 245RP motor is just about ready to dyno, I wanted to get a feel for it to make sure it was gonna work ok on his motor before we dynoed it. His should put up some pretty good #'s based on this RP motor. I'm thinking 730's which will be a stout true 59* motor on this dyno......
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Re: 416 INDY 245RP Head Dyno #'s.....
[Re: a408swinger]
#173048
12/22/08 10:09 PM
12/22/08 10:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
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Quote:
Ryan, what did you wind up doing for intake gaskets, and was there enough material on the intake to gasket match it? I made a cardboard template of the intake surface on the head and sent it to Cometic to make me some .188" thick gaskets which I think will raise the intake up high enough to allow for gasket matching. I'll just have to slot the intake bolt holes a little bit.
I don't know the exact deck height on this block off top of my head it's around 9.583" ish... Which is zero deck with a Ross piston, so it's not very low, & heads only have a cleanup cut on them as far as I know. I just ran a .060" INDY gasket, I glued them on, with top of ports matching top of port of head, then I slotted the bolt holes down, & trimmed floor out of gasket with razor. I had about .150" of metal on manifold sealing above port on head. I'd SWEAR INDY is cutting their new manifolds narrower than before... Although I think you have an old manifold so my theory goes out the door. Would be nice if Cometic would start stocking that RP gasket...
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Re: 416 INDY 245RP Head Dyno #'s.....
[Re: B1Fish540]
#173053
12/23/08 10:00 AM
12/23/08 10:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
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It's not the fuel that was down, it was the Demon Carb. Dominators usually make better TQ than a big 4150 like a 1000 Demon due to venturi shape being piss poor on a large 4150. As I told the customer, his best bet would be to just get an E85 Dominator done & get rid of the Demon. I never like to use large body 4150s on our SB motors, they never seem to work good, & I definitely don't like using Demons, but he already had the carb & wanted to stay with it.
Howard, that last pull we ran with the air inlet off, so that's why the #'s are funky. We did a pull right before that with the air inlet off (sucking outside air instead of shop air) & power was basically same as using shop air, then we went to 300 a sec on that last pull.
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Re: 416 INDY 245RP Head Dyno #'s.....
[Re: mrsmallblock]
#173057
12/23/08 12:40 PM
12/23/08 12:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 259 Canada
lenweiler
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Last edited by lenweiler; 12/23/08 12:42 PM.
Damn! I dropped my change.............
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