Re: Overcharging issue?
[Re: MONC]
#1717028
12/28/14 06:50 PM
12/28/14 06:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
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Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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DO NOT run it anymore (not even 10 seconds) till you swap the reg. I'm assuming you have an OE type electromechanical type reg? Your parts house has a Wells VR 706 (iirc) electronic replacemnt reg (does not look identical to OE) and mrrandyj at aol dot com has an electronic version with an black cover that does look identical to the OE electromechanical ones for $29 to your door. Reportedly you can swap your current cover to an electronic parts house replacement reg but I ain't sure which one that is.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Overcharging issue?
[Re: MONC]
#1717030
12/28/14 07:04 PM
12/28/14 07:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Circle Track
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Yes! dirt cheap/no tax/free shipping/USA made/good seller/expedited shipping. that's as good as it gets
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Overcharging issue?
[Re: MONC]
#1717033
12/28/14 07:51 PM
12/28/14 07:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,817 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Without further testing, I wouldn't assume the problem is the regulator. A high current draw or direct short somewhere in the system will cause a perfectly good alternator and regulator to charge at the max rate.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Overcharging issue?
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#1717034
12/28/14 08:07 PM
12/28/14 08:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,664 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
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Quote:
Without further testing, I wouldn't assume the problem is the regulator. A high current draw or direct short somewhere in the system will cause a perfectly good alternator and regulator to charge at the max rate.
What further testing do you suggest John?
Do those voltage readings at the VR and alternator at idle indicative of charging at the max rate?
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Re: Overcharging issue?
[Re: dezduster]
#1717037
12/29/14 11:29 AM
12/29/14 11:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,361 PA
70HemiGTX
top fuel
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top fuel
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Posts: 2,361
PA
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Don't be surprised if you have a bad connection at either the bulkhead connector or the connector on the steering column. Look at the heavy red wire at both connections. Look for discoloration of the plastic. Pull them apart if possible and check them. I had the same problem on my 71 Challenger and I changed everything out. Regulators, alternators, had it to two different shops, nothing. I was under the dash one day just looking around and saw a brown streak in the connection for the steering column to the main harness. I bypassed the connector and that took care of the overcharging problem. Remember, these connectors are 45 alomost 50 yrs. old.
Last edited by 70HemiGTX; 12/29/14 11:31 AM.
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Re: Overcharging issue?
[Re: MONC]
#1717039
12/29/14 12:56 PM
12/29/14 12:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,376 Omaha Ne
TJP
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Quote:
I checked the voltage at the battery before starting it was about 12.75V . While idling the battery voltage was 17.50 - 17.62 volts ( seems high to me ) .
I checked the voltage at the regulator at idle and it was 6.8-7.5 volts. I checked the alternator at idle and it was about 7.8- 8.2 volts
Double check your readings.
It is impossible to have 17.5 at the battery with 7.8-8.2 at the alternator.
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Re: Overcharging issue?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1717041
12/29/14 06:56 PM
12/29/14 06:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,376 Omaha Ne
TJP
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I Live Here
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Quote:
Quote:
It is impossible to have 17.5 at the battery with 7.8-8.2 at the alternator.
Those are blue wire ign1 field terminal readings as opposed to a alt batt stud reading and they are low cuz they were taken at idle (alt ain't puttin out) whereas at a higher RPM the field terminal (blue wire circuit) voltage readings would be in the 17+ range (as would the entire electrical system) from the alt putting out what it is capable of & the bad (full fielded) reg telling/allowing it to put out all it can.
Ok he didn't specify that, but if so, 1. he is losing 1V between the alt and reg. 2.The ign side of the reg should be close to battery V or 17V,
You say the readings are low because the alt is at idle and not putting out yet his battery V is 17+ ????
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Re: Overcharging issue?
[Re: TJP]
#1717042
12/29/14 07:03 PM
12/29/14 07:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Circle Track
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Oh OK I see what you are sayin cuz he does state that his batt voltage is 17+ at (normal/slow?) idle
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Overcharging issue?
[Re: dart4forte]
#1717045
12/29/14 08:17 PM
12/29/14 08:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
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Never had a weather related problem with my points type regulators that I recall. But the farthest north I ever was running this system during the winter was Memphis in 90-91. Yeah, it snowed there.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Overcharging issue?
[Re: MONC]
#1717046
12/29/14 08:51 PM
12/29/14 08:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,376 Omaha Ne
TJP
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I Live Here
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Omaha Ne
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Re: Overcharging issue?
[Re: RJS]
#1717047
12/29/14 10:38 PM
12/29/14 10:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,147 Mesa, Arizona
dart4forte
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I Live Here
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks for the reply Robert. This is the VR I saw on Ebay Motors - is this the type I should get :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Charger-Ch...0ce&vxp=mtr
Once your sure you have your charging straight I have a Reproduction cover with Red writing I would sell if you need. Ron
I e-mailed Randy but it looks like I'll need one of your covers. Have any date coded for 1968?
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Re: Overcharging issue? -UPDATE
[Re: MONC]
#1717049
01/03/15 03:24 PM
01/03/15 03:24 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,664 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
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Ok I checked the back of the voltage regulator on the car - definitely a standard unit not for electronic, based on what RR said and the article that TJP posted. So I bought the electronic one in the link above and installed it this morning. I think it did the trick. Ammeter in car reading near dead center, and no erratic movements. New readings : Battery at rest : 12.71v Battery at idle : 14.7v Alt at idle : 14.9v Voltage Reg at idle : 14.1v @ 1600 or so RPM readings didn't change much across the board. I took the car for a short ride and no ammeter jumps and read close to dead center. Obviously I'll have to go for a longer ride, but bad weather heading in this afternoon, so that'll have to wait ( hopefully not till Spring! ) In the meantime, thanks for all the input, as always
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Re: Overcharging issue? -UPDATE
[Re: MONC]
#1717050
01/03/15 04:47 PM
01/03/15 04:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,376 Omaha Ne
TJP
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Thanks for the feedback A lot do not post the final solution which leaves some of us wondering. Your readings all look good except for 14.1 at the VR. I'm assuming that is on the ign or voltage sense side. It would be nice to see that number closer to the battery V at 14.7. A .6 V drop between the two is a bit on the high side but when taking into account the multiple connections between the two points along with older harnesses etc it's not all that bad. The most likely source of the drop is the infamous bulkhead connections.
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Re: Overcharging issue? -UPDATE
[Re: TJP]
#1717051
01/03/15 05:00 PM
01/03/15 05:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,664 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
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Thanks for the help TJP . Those numbers were not exact as they fluctuated slightly as the car was running, so I am not overly concerned at this point. Once I can get it on the road for a longer drive and no issues and recheck of readings I'll feel better. No chance of that now that it's snowing...
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Re: Overcharging issue? -UPDATE 4/18
[Re: MONC]
#1806353
04/18/15 04:39 PM
04/18/15 04:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,892 Oregon
hooziewhatsit
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Install a volt gauge so you can see it while driving. If it maintains 14.5v while driving, the alternator is keeping up with demand. If it's below that, the alt is not keeping up.
If you're getting 14.9v at the battery, I bet you have some voltage drops equaling 0.4v between the battery and the blue wire at the voltage regulator.
You can measure the voltage between the battery + terminal and the blue wire at the alt. It should be 0.00v. Any higher indicates a voltage drop through the harness, which is bad.
I eventually installed a relay to bypass all the voltage drops through the bulkhead/ignition switch to finally get 14.5v at the battery.
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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Re: Overcharging issue? -UPDATE 4/18
[Re: MONC]
#1806376
04/18/15 05:39 PM
04/18/15 05:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,376 Omaha Ne
TJP
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The flickering is due to a flaky connection somewhere in the circuit or a load that is intermittent ( think turn signals as an example).
the ammeter is just responding to the current flowing through the system. the current is changing due to one of the following, 1. Ground issue between the body/ engine/ alternator/ regulator 2. Voltage sense line at the regulator is fluctuating due to A. Ignition switch contacts /connections. B. Bulk head connections.
3. Field circuit between the regulator and alternator has a flaky connection 4. loose /flakey connection between the battery and alternator which in turn causes the voltage to fluctuate in the circuit which causes the regulator/ alternator to respond. 5. Field / brush connections on the alternator are loose
You will have to try and isolate which circuit is fluctuating and causing the issue. refer to the previously posted article on how the system operates
NOTE You will need a good analog voltmeter or oscilloscope as digital meters respond to slowly.
Last edited by TJP; 04/18/15 05:42 PM.
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Re: Overcharging issue? -UPDATE 4/18
[Re: TJP]
#1807205
04/19/15 08:34 PM
04/19/15 08:34 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,664 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
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Thanks for making go back and read that article TJP. When the author stated that a bad ground will make you go chasing your tail, I had to laugh. And then I checked the ground listed, and I completely forgot about the engine ground. It was never there when I got the car back from the paint and engine install. And the bolt that attaches to the rear of the head was missing after I got the heads rebuilt . So I went off to the auto parts store this morning to put a generic one on there for now and get some bolts that would work. I checked continuity throughout the install and fired up the car when done. The ammeter needle slowly went to near center and stayed there. A little shake but it was idling and not completely warmed up. So I took her for a 20 or 30 minute ride, and I'll be damned if the thing didn't stay near dead center without a shake or shimmy ! So it looks I am good to go and onto other things and hopefully drivin' her around more religiously this season . Oh and even got invited to a car show by someone who saw me at the gas station and stopped and asked if I could bring it to show he was sponsoring. Thanks again for everyone's help.
Mopar Or No Car
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