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Re: 470 to 512
[Re: fattire]
#1712407
12/22/14 05:03 PM
12/22/14 05:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Whats your 60' now... yeah cubes are nice but if your chassis isnt working right with what you have now you MIGHT end up going slower with the cubes.. I loaned my buddy my 1050 that was dialed in for my engine and we put it on his car... the ET was slower but the MPH was up 2 mph.. his chassis didnt like more power 
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Re: 470 to 512
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1712409
12/22/14 05:12 PM
12/22/14 05:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
OR, The carb was like EVERY one I`ve seen where it was soft down low(rich)and cleaned up as they do............. 
His problem was it made more torque and spun off the
line and with the 850 it just barely spun.. this was
on the same day
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Re: 470 to 512
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1712411
12/22/14 05:34 PM
12/22/14 05:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Torque good...................no traction bad............. 
Aient that the truth
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Re: 470 to 512
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#1712420
12/24/14 12:53 PM
12/24/14 12:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Read AndyF's threads about his 505" with the EZ heads. He's had them over 800hp, although with some fairly exotic valvetrain. S/F....Ken M
If I recall correctly he was/is using TD rockers..
nothing exotic about them... just good
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Re: 470 to 512
[Re: fattire]
#1712423
12/24/14 02:48 PM
12/24/14 02:48 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I run H.S. rockers and Manton rods with a Scott Brown solid roller, I don't think I will go beyond this level.
I was running a Scott cam in my W-9.. I didnt like it..
it gave up a lot of power.. he was/is big on the wide
LSA like the 112 that mine was
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Re: 470 to 512
[Re: fattire]
#1712425
12/24/14 03:04 PM
12/24/14 03:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
So what do you run now?
I sold that engine and I sent a blank 48* cam with it
so he can have what ever he wants to run.. I like the
Bullit/Ulradye grinds.. I have a old MP cam in my 416
thats a roundy round solid roller grind with a 105 LSA
and thats where I installed it.. its making 590hp
for my street rod.. its actually more than I wanted
for power since I only want to run 10.0
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Re: 470 to 512
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1712426
12/24/14 03:39 PM
12/24/14 03:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 494
IL
EchoSixMike
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 494
IL
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Quote:
Quote:
Read AndyF's threads about his 505" with the EZ heads. He's had them over 800hp, although with some fairly exotic valvetrain. S/F....Ken M
If I recall correctly he was/is using TD rockers..
nothing exotic about them... just good
Thought he was running the paired Jesels, that's getting into the semi-exotic stuff, for an EZ head.
Not so exotic on B-1's and up. Just my opinion, obviously nothing set in stone. Heck, I'm looking at putting cut down NASCAR Ti valves into iron heads, just because I can, lol. S/F....Ken M
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Re: 470 to 512
[Re: fattire]
#1712429
12/25/14 02:25 PM
12/25/14 02:25 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I'm running out of the box Indy EZ heads now but after port work will these support a 12.5 to 1 512" motor? And what gains do think I would see using the ported heads and going from 975cfm carb to 1050 on the 470"?
JMO.. but I would port the heads... I believe you will
gain more in the head work than you would in the cubes
and more than likely be a fair bit cheaper so you
can invest the extra money elsewhere
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Re: 470 to 512
[Re: fattire]
#1712431
12/25/14 07:16 PM
12/25/14 07:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,232
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,232
Bend,OR USA
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I've been building and racing Mopar V8 for a lot of years, from street to NHRA class and S/class racing. I have not had a N/A Mopar V8 motor that liked wide LSA including some blown gas street Hemi motors   I've tried a lot of different cams in a lot of different motors, all the SB Mopar I've raced or helped race like 106 or closer LSA and the BB, unless intended to be shifted above 8500 RPM like 104 to 110 LSA, not 111 to 114 no matter where the intake lobe center was degreed into  The theory of opening the lobe centers up is based on RPM and HP and torque peak, wider LSA (112 or more)looses low speed(below7000 RPM) HP and torque and moves the peak up to a higher RPM like 7500 or higher. Closer LSA below 110, make more power down low, above 4000 RPM and peak sooner, 5500 to 7000 RPM  I had a very good Mopar sponsored S/S 4 speed racer (Joe Alread, RIP) tell me years ago to concentrate on the first 100 ft. of the track, he said you get it right and the rest of the track will take care of itself That has worked very well for me  Huh, Dominic 
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 470 to 512
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1712433
12/26/14 12:48 AM
12/26/14 12:48 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Quote:
I've been building and racing Mopar V8 for a lot of years, from street to NHRA class and S/class racing. I have not had a N/A Mopar V8 motor that liked wide LSA including some blown gas street Hemi motors I've tried a lot of different cams in a lot of different motors, all the SB Mopar I've raced or helped race like 106 or closer LSA and the BB, unless intended to be shifted above 8500 RPM like 104 to 110 LSA, not 111 to 114 no matter where the intake lobe center was degreed into The theory of opening the lobe centers up is based on RPM and HP and torque peak, wider LSA (112 or more)looses low speed(below7000 RPM) HP and torque and moves the peak up to a higher RPM like 7500 or higher. Closer LSA below 110, make more power down low, above 4000 RPM and peak sooner, 5500 to 7000 RPM I had a very good Mopar sponsored S/S 4 speed racer (Joe Alread, RIP) tell me years ago to concentrate on the first 100 ft. of the track, he said you get it right and the rest of the track will take care of itself That has worked very well for me Huh, Dominic
Yup.................  Bumper to bumper hugh Cab..........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: 470 to 512
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1712436
12/26/14 12:12 PM
12/26/14 12:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Quote:
I've been building and racing Mopar V8 for a lot of years, from street to NHRA class and S/class racing. I have not had a N/A Mopar V8 motor that liked wide LSA including some blown gas street Hemi motors I've tried a lot of different cams in a lot of different motors, all the SB Mopar I've raced or helped race like 106 or closer LSA and the BB, unless intended to be shifted above 8500 RPM like 104 to 110 LSA, not 111 to 114 no matter where the intake lobe center was degreed into The theory of opening the lobe centers up is based on RPM and HP and torque peak, wider LSA (112 or more)looses low speed(below7000 RPM) HP and torque and moves the peak up to a higher RPM like 7500 or higher. Closer LSA below 110, make more power down low, above 4000 RPM and peak sooner, 5500 to 7000 RPM I had a very good Mopar sponsored S/S 4 speed racer (Joe Alread, RIP) tell me years ago to concentrate on the first 100 ft. of the track, he said you get it right and the rest of the track will take care of itself That has worked very well for me Huh, Dominic
That's strange, went from a 106 to a 112 lsa on my 422 small block and it picked up 6 mph in the qtr. I only shift it at 7200 so I don't turnit that hard. It does go through the traps at 7600 at 162. It seems like all the engine master combos are going to large lsa also.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: 470 to 512
[Re: ProSport]
#1712440
12/26/14 01:50 PM
12/26/14 01:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 305
Mentor,Oh.
fattire
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 305
Mentor,Oh.
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Found the card:@1.5 rocker ratio lobe lift-int. 0.435 exh. 0.430 valve lift- int. 653 exh. 645 adv. dur. - int. 289 exh. 300 dur@.050 - int. 259 exh. 267 lobe centerline - int. 108 exh. 116 valve timing int. open 21.5 btdc close 57.5 abdc exh. 69.5 bbdc 17.5 atdc lobe separation 112 degree intake lobe to 108
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Re: 470 to 512
[Re: fattire]
#1712445
12/27/14 01:42 AM
12/27/14 01:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Well it is a street car that goes to the track D.O.T. tires full exhaust air cleaner even a kick butt sound system just think there is some more in it, thinking heads and carb should get me 10.30 - 10.40
Well, you posted 1.46/1.48 60ft. times. That's kind of soft for the engine combo. More carb and ported heads might even make those 60,fts slower.
But even with that said, those EZ heads OOTB arent that great, so yes have them ported.
It seems you have the budget for the 512, so YES Id go ahead and do that too. But , I say NO on the 12.5 comp.512 motor, if you do that you've just "lost" your Street car combo. Keep it around 10.5/11.0 max and enjoy pump gas.
Further, that cam you have now will be better suited for the 512 vs the 470.
That 470 is a good motor, if your going to stick with it. Change the cam and port the EZheads and swap carbs. @ 3700# your ride isn't running to bad, but she does have more in her.
With a 1.46/1.48 your running what, about a 10.75 to 10.9 ET If your ET,s are faster then that, your actually running pretty good with that motor at 3700# Maybe you need more Vert.
Id say just go with the 512, more streetable at a 10.5 comp, and plus you know you Want one. 
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Re: 470 to 512
[Re: ProSport]
#1712450
12/27/14 04:27 PM
12/27/14 04:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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David Vizzard's latest book HOW TO BUILD HORSEPOWER has some great info on why and where the LSA should be for different motors. In a nut shell, it is about intake valve to cubic inches,valve to valve relationship, combined with a bit wider LSA for high compression. Our big blocks suffer from small valves to start with. They are also parallel, which doesn't help. Then we stroke them to the limit and reduce the overlap flow needed per cubic inch even more.
When you get into large engines there is a need for more exhaust flow, and in my case with 528 cubes and 7100 rpm shifts it works out to 110 to 112 LSA IF it has more exhaust duration. Because I have over 15/1 compression and poor exhaust flow for the cubes and fuel, it works. The cam timing is brought back to more like a 110 or 108 LSA by advancing it combined with the extra exhaust duration. If you look at the card numbers, my cam current cam which is 284/296/112 installed at 108 looks like a 108 LSA cam with 284 intake and 284 exhaust duration on all three opening and closing points but the exhaust opening point.
With very high compression, the pressure in the cylinder decreases at a high rate compared to low compression, and for that reason opening the exhaust early is less detrimental than the gains from more exhaust flow.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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