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MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? #1711567
12/16/14 06:44 PM
12/16/14 06:44 PM
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Morrow, OH
markz528 Offline OP
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What is the bore size of a Mopar Performance P5249271 master cylinder?


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: markz528] #1711568
12/16/14 07:52 PM
12/16/14 07:52 PM
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Cincinnati, Ohio
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1 1/32" from my quick research.

The part # that ends in 70 is a 15/16" bore.

Last edited by Challenger 1; 12/16/14 08:21 PM.
Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: Challenger 1] #1711569
12/16/14 08:05 PM
12/16/14 08:05 PM
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15/16

Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: markz528] #1711570
12/16/14 08:12 PM
12/16/14 08:12 PM
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web page

And this add says 1 1/8" I/m not sure, just trying to help you. web page

web page

Last edited by Challenger 1; 12/16/14 08:23 PM.
Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: Challenger 1] #1711571
12/16/14 08:51 PM
12/16/14 08:51 PM
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markz528 Offline OP
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I searched pretty thoroughly before I posted and I found conflicting information. However it may very well be a 1 1/32" bore.

If it is, I wonder if it would be prudent to switch to 15/16" MC to improve my braking? Got the 10 3/4 inch Wilwood 4 piston caliper rakes all the way around, and at 140 mph and 3450 lbs braking ain't great.

Opinions?


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: markz528] #1711572
12/16/14 11:12 PM
12/16/14 11:12 PM
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Is it possible for you to change the pedal ratio? With those calipers, you need to move a lot of fluid. The 15/16" bore will probably be marginal, at best. If you can change the ratio, you can use the larger bore master cylinder and still have the same pedal effort and not have to push the pedal 12" to do it.

Brian

Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: markz528] #1711573
12/17/14 12:09 AM
12/17/14 12:09 AM
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I got the 15/16 bore master from Dr. Diff. I love the feel of it. Wilwood fronts, drum rear....manual.

Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: markz528] #1711574
12/17/14 04:26 PM
12/17/14 04:26 PM
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I have the big bore one in my Dart Sport (because I couldn't find the one I intended to use until later, both OE parts) and it works fine, no big deal. Compare the area of your caliper pistons to stock to see how much the Wilwood brakes change things. You've got more pistons but the total piston area may be more or less than stock. I bought an AC/Delco knockoff 15/16" from RockAuto recently for $14 plus shipping.





Quote:

I searched pretty thoroughly before I posted and I found conflicting information. However it may very well be a 1 1/32" bore.

If it is, I wonder if it would be prudent to switch to 15/16" MC to improve my braking? Got the 10 3/4 inch Wilwood 4 piston caliper rakes all the way around, and at 140 mph and 3450 lbs braking ain't great.

Opinions?



Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: @#$%&*!] #1711575
12/17/14 07:29 PM
12/17/14 07:29 PM
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Quote:

I have the big bore one in my Dart Sport (because I couldn't find the one I intended to use until later, both OE parts) and it works fine, no big deal. Compare the area of your caliper pistons to stock to see how much the Wilwood brakes change things. You've got more pistons but the total piston area may be more or less than stock. I bought an AC/Delco knockoff 15/16" from RockAuto recently for $14 plus shipping.





Quote:

I searched pretty thoroughly before I posted and I found conflicting information. However it may very well be a 1 1/32" bore.

If it is, I wonder if it would be prudent to switch to 15/16" MC to improve my braking? Got the 10 3/4 inch Wilwood 4 piston caliper rakes all the way around, and at 140 mph and 3450 lbs braking ain't great.

Opinions?








I've been fooled by that before (once). Measure the caliper bores and do the math to find the piston area. 4 piston Wilwoods and 4 piston something else may not be the same.

Strange offers a 1.032 and 1.125. 1.032 Strange on a Demon with 4 piston Wilwoods all around worked nice on one we did. Typically 4 piston Strange on all 4 corners wants the 1.125.

Define "braking ain't that great". Changing MC bore size effects pedal travel and pressure. A smaller bore will increase pressure at the calipers with the same force on the pedal. It will also increase pedal travel.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 12/17/14 07:33 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: J_BODY] #1711576
12/18/14 04:35 PM
12/18/14 04:35 PM
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Quote:

I got the 15/16 bore master from Dr. Diff. I love the feel of it. Wilwood fronts, drum rear....manual.



Same here, changed from the mopar large bore master cylinder. Much improved


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: Tig] #1711577
12/19/14 01:18 AM
12/19/14 01:18 AM
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Morrow, OH
markz528 Offline OP
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What do I mean by poor braking - I hit the pedal and the car slows but it just is like the brakes are fading. Does not feel like a lot of grab.

I have been running these brakes for about 15 years and the pads and rotors are original (not a lot of runs in that time period). Perhaps it is time for new rotors and pads - the rotors have some grooving - not sure if that is affecting braking or not.

However, I also question if a 15/16 inch MC might not be an appropriate upgrade.

I do have the Doc 15/16" MC in my 67 Coronet street car with 73 Duster discs up front and 10 1/2 drums in the rear. The braking stinks - currently trying to figure that one out. I can lock up the rear brakes pretty easy on dry pavement so the issue has to be in the front.


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: markz528] #1711578
12/19/14 01:49 AM
12/19/14 01:49 AM
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Quote:

What do I mean by poor braking - I hit the pedal and the car slows but it just is like the brakes are fading. Does not feel like a lot of grab.

I have been running these brakes for about 15 years and the pads and rotors are original (not a lot of runs in that time period). Perhaps it is time for new rotors and pads - the rotors have some grooving - not sure if that is affecting braking or not.

However, I also question if a 15/16 inch MC might not be an appropriate upgrade.

I do have the Doc 15/16" MC in my 67 Coronet street car with 73 Duster discs up front and 10 1/2 drums in the rear. The braking stinks - currently trying to figure that one out. I can lock up the rear brakes pretty easy on dry pavement so the issue has to be in the front.




Do you have a adjustable prop valve on the 73..
if you do which line is it on, front or rear.. is
the pedal hard to push with very little movement
to the pedal... if you go with a smaller master the
pressure will go up but the pedal will travel farther

Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: markz528] #1711579
12/19/14 11:52 AM
12/19/14 11:52 AM
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My Dart has wildwood brakes on the rear and Strange on the front. The Wilwoods I put on the car when I built it along with factory bbp disk. It had a factory small bore cast iron mc on it and it stopped fantastic, the car felt like it just sit down when I got on the brakes hard. The iron mc was leaking when I installed the Strange brakes so I installed a 1 1/32" bore aluminum mc from auto zone, the pedal was almost as hard as my head and would make me wonder if it was going to stop even though it always did. After talking with Cass aka Drdiff, I ordered his 15/16" bore mc and installed it. The car stops a lot better but not as good as the small bore mc that was on it.

My car has the factory pedal set up. The 1 1/32" mc had almost no pedal travel the one from Cass has more and feels better and definitely stops better. If I ever have any problems in the future I'll put a 7/8" bore Strange mc on it. BTW I'm using a gutted 73 proportioning valve.

Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: markz528] #1711580
12/19/14 02:58 PM
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Quote:

What is the bore size of a Mopar Performance P5249271 master cylinder?


P5249271 = 1 1/32 bore. P5249270 = 15/16 bore. I would talk to Wilwood and go with their recommendation on bore size - since you are using their calipers. Adjustable proportioning valve for sure. New rotors / pads. Still don't like the pedal feel, change the ratio. A typical ratio for manual brakes is 6:1. Converted my late B body over to manual brakes a few years ago. Used all original system - disc / drum / p-valve / master. Used 6:1 on the pedal ratio. I'm stopping a "train" at around 130. No problems.

8367161-brake2.jpg (138 downloads)

Fastest 300
Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1711581
12/23/14 04:45 PM
12/23/14 04:45 PM
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markz528 Offline OP
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Quote:


Do you have a adjustable prop valve on the 73..
if you do which line is it on, front or rear.. is
the pedal hard to push with very little movement
to the pedal... if you go with a smaller master the
pressure will go up but the pedal will travel farther





I do have an adjustable proportioning valve on the rear brakes. I did keep the original block which I believe is only a distribution valve not a proportioning valve - is that correct?

When I installed the discs had a larger bore MC and the pedal had little travel and was very hard. Its better with the Doc Diff 15/16" MC.

Plan to measure the pressure at the calipers and at the drums. In addition I plan on replacing the 73 A Body calipers with the larger piston 76 F body calipers. That should act like making the MC bore smaller without affecting the rear brakes.

Interesting that before I put the discs on the car, the brakes really stunk. I replaced the rear drums and shoes (10 x 2 1/2") but not the wheel cylinders.

Installed a cast iron E Body MC with a larger bore when I installed the discs. Braking stunk and pedal was very hard so I went with the Doc Diff 15/16" MC. Helped a little and pedal is better but braking still stinks.

With the proportioning valve set at about 50% my daughter spun the car out at the finish line because the rear brakes locked up. A couple of weeks ago I did some trials on dry pavement - stopping hard from about 10 mph. With valve fully closed the rear brakes would lock up every time and the fronts were acting almost like they weren't there. At 50% it was questionable and at 90% it seemed better. I left it at 90%.

Other than checking pressures and the larger piston calipers, any suggestions?


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: MP Master Cylinder - What is the Bore Size? [Re: markz528] #1711582
12/23/14 05:40 PM
12/23/14 05:40 PM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

Quote:


Do you have a adjustable prop valve on the 73..
if you do which line is it on, front or rear.. is
the pedal hard to push with very little movement
to the pedal... if you go with a smaller master the
pressure will go up but the pedal will travel farther





I do have an adjustable proportioning valve on the rear brakes. I did keep the original block which I believe is only a distribution valve not a proportioning valve - is that correct?

When I installed the discs had a larger bore MC and the pedal had little travel and was very hard. Its better with the Doc Diff 15/16" MC.

Plan to measure the pressure at the calipers and at the drums. In addition I plan on replacing the 73 A Body calipers with the larger piston 76 F body calipers. That should act like making the MC bore smaller without affecting the rear brakes.

Interesting that before I put the discs on the car, the brakes really stunk. I replaced the rear drums and shoes (10 x 2 1/2") but not the wheel cylinders.

Installed a cast iron E Body MC with a larger bore when I installed the discs. Braking stunk and pedal was very hard so I went with the Doc Diff 15/16" MC. Helped a little and pedal is better but braking still stinks.

With the proportioning valve set at about 50% my daughter spun the car out at the finish line because the rear brakes locked up. A couple of weeks ago I did some trials on dry pavement - stopping hard from about 10 mph. With valve fully closed the rear brakes would lock up every time and the fronts were acting almost like they weren't there. At 50% it was questionable and at 90% it seemed better. I left it at 90%.

Other than checking pressures and the larger piston calipers, any suggestions?




Was the pedal pressure good now or is it still sorta
hard... you might want to put more pressure to it
so the fronts see more pressure... also understand
that the prop valve just controls the instant spike
if you jump on the brakes.. in a few seconds the pressure
will equalize on both sides of the prop valve(it
takes longer with the valve mostly closed) but it
will equalize.... also... on the master which line
goes to the front of the master(front or rear brakes)
EDIT
are you running skinny front tires... if so you do
want to do more stopping with the rear tires(more surface
area).. I put my prop valves on the front tires so
I dont skid them and blow them out on the hit

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 12/23/14 05:47 PM.






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