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Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: bentwheel43]
#1692050
10/30/14 02:45 PM
10/30/14 02:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
dizuster
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
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My guess is that it comes down to the fact buying a car with a big or small block in it costs money to switch over. Even if you’re starting with a survivor 318 car, it still has a trans core, alternator brackets, distributor, motor mounts, k-frame, timing cover, water pump, etc… It takes very little to build a 408” long block, and re-use most of that stuff to drop it in.
If you’re starting from scratch with a /6 car, then it’s a different story.
If you took a pole, I would bet most small block racecars on this site are A-bodies for just that reason. Just the same way that most of the big block racecars on this site are B-bodies too.
Mine has a small block in it because the magnum manifolds flipped backwards for the turbo easily, the block was already a hydraulic roller, and my Dad and I had a crap load of old used small block stuff laying around to use up.
But you can bet I would have started with a low-deck BB if I was building NA again. I could have bought out of the box BB Eddy’s, and they would flow nearly what my CNC ported small block Eddy’s do.
The regular 10 second type small block build would have a tough time competing dollar for dollar with an Eddy headed BB build. 400” BB cores aren’t exactly holding their price in the weight of gold, so there isn’t a huge “core price” advantage there. Machine work, cam, intake, oil pans, headers, etc… are all about a wash. So you’re down to the price of the heads and rotating assy. Eddy BB heads are cheaper then any equivalently flowing SB head. Even if you compare the price of the ported SB heads to offset the price of the higher rotating ASSY cost of the BB, would you rather have a 300cfm head on a 500” motor, or a 300cfm head on a 400” motor? The 500” motor is going to take a lot less gear, cam, converter, etc… to make work.
By the way… why are we comparing the prices of used, hard to find deals on W8 motors, compared to new BB build prices. There are certainly good deals out there for BB stuff too, so we gotta compare apples to apples.
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Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1692052
10/30/14 03:17 PM
10/30/14 03:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: B3422W5]
#1692053
10/30/14 03:26 PM
10/30/14 03:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Sure but you can do it easier w/ a 400 block, 440 crank, and chevy rods. Buddy's old valaint even had leaf springs and went mid 9's. Doubt the engine saw anything above 6500.
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Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1692054
10/30/14 03:31 PM
10/30/14 03:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Sure but you can do it easier w/ a 400 block, 440 crank, and chevy rods. Buddy's old valaint even had leaf springs and went mid 9's. Doubt the engine saw anything above 6500.
Your gonna have WAY more in any big block motor that will run mid 9's than 6-8 grand.
Just the top end will get close to that.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1692055
10/30/14 03:57 PM
10/30/14 03:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Sure but you can do it easier w/ a 400 block, 440 crank, and chevy rods. Buddy's old valaint even had leaf springs and went mid 9's. Doubt the engine saw anything above 6500.
The w8 motor will have top shelf parts and make 1000 of passes, the stock parts in your big block are questionable at best at that power level and be lucky to last a season racing it.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1692056
10/30/14 04:23 PM
10/30/14 04:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Sure but you can do it easier w/ a 400 block, 440 crank, and chevy rods. Buddy's old valaint even had leaf springs and went mid 9's. Doubt the engine saw anything above 6500.
The w8 motor will have top shelf parts and make 1000 of passes, the stock parts in your big block are questionable at best at that power level and be lucky to last a season racing it.
dude had it for years... this was way before any "pre-packaged" kit was even available. I looked up W8 and r5p7 stuff, it's not cheap even used. Speed costs money no doubt.
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Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1692057
10/30/14 04:52 PM
10/30/14 04:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
cudadoug
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
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Like anything else, there are pro's and con's to each, right?
Back in the day, I stabbed a untouched smogger era 440 shortblock in a Duster. Adding stock 915 heads, MP .557 cam, torker, 750 and those FUGLY fenderwell headers. With a 3.91 gear and dirt track tires I went high 11's easy and drove it EVERY DAY on 89 octane CA pump swill.
Replacing the smogger 440 with a smogger 360, could I have run those numbers?? NO FREAKIN' WAY!
That combo still can't be beat today for a low dollar hauler, as there are still plently of smogger 440's out there.
Having said that, I'm a small block convert under my current circumstances. I'm on a self induced A-body budget. I simply REFUSE to spend B or E body money on this hobby.
I don't like ANY of the BB/A-body header choices and I REALLY don't like fighting the BB/A-body to work on it. Therefore it makes the most sense for me.
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Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1692058
10/30/14 05:01 PM
10/30/14 05:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Sure but you can do it easier w/ a 400 block, 440 crank, and chevy rods. Buddy's old valaint even had leaf springs and went mid 9's. Doubt the engine saw anything above 6500.
The w8 motor will have top shelf parts and make 1000 of passes, the stock parts in your big block are questionable at best at that power level and be lucky to last a season racing it.
dude had it for years... this was way before any "pre-packaged" kit was even available. I looked up W8 and r5p7 stuff, it's not cheap even used. Speed costs money no doubt.
Does he race the car? Like really race it not once or twice a year. I know of a w8 motor right now you can buy for 5000. You need to know where to look.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1692059
10/30/14 06:05 PM
10/30/14 06:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Sure but you can do it easier w/ a 400 block, 440 crank, and chevy rods. Buddy's old valaint even had leaf springs and went mid 9's. Doubt the engine saw anything above 6500.
The w8 motor will have top shelf parts and make 1000 of passes, the stock parts in your big block are questionable at best at that power level and be lucky to last a season racing it.
dude had it for years... this was way before any "pre-packaged" kit was even available. I looked up W8 and r5p7 stuff, it's not cheap even used. Speed costs money no doubt.
Does he race the car? Like really race it not once or twice a year. I know of a w8 motor right now you can buy for 5000. You need to know where to look.
every weekend almost. On the back bumper too.
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Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1692063
10/30/14 07:09 PM
10/30/14 07:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
ademon
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
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Quote:
"Does he race the car? Like really race it not once or twice a year. I know of a w8 motor right now you can buy for 5000. You need to know where to look."
plus what does one need for W8? how much stall? Gear? Most BB need 4000-4500 max. You can run 10's w/ 4.10's and you don't need to rev the tar out of it. The engine I have w/ a good intake and Dominator would run low 10's easy in an A-body w/ a 4000 stall and 4.10's. I could drive it 60 miles race and drive it home. I paid 3k for it valley pan to oil pan.
I don't know about low 10's with your motor, your only running mid 11's now! I will agree you would be faster in a tricked out 70 duster or something. Which brings us to the meat of the post your running 11's with a bb and some with sb are running 8's and 9's, are you wanting to pull your motor and stick it in a A body? Probably not, just like guys that are happy running whatever et with a SB couldn't care less about going to a BB.
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Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1692064
10/30/14 08:21 PM
10/30/14 08:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,575
KOS
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,575
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Sure but you can do it easier w/ a 400 block, 440 crank, and chevy rods. Buddy's old valaint even had leaf springs and went mid 9's. Doubt the engine saw anything above 6500.
The w8 motor will have top shelf parts and make 1000 of passes, the stock parts in your big block are questionable at best at that power level and be lucky to last a season racing it.
dude had it for years... this was way before any "pre-packaged" kit was even available. I looked up W8 and r5p7 stuff, it's not cheap even used. Speed costs money no doubt.
Does he race the car? Like really race it not once or twice a year. I know of a w8 motor right now you can buy for 5000. You need to know where to look.
Hook me up im looking for a w8 motor....PM me
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Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: KOS]
#1692065
10/30/14 08:55 PM
10/30/14 08:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 437
south central pa
bdaz smblk
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 437
south central pa
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It's funny all u big block guy's think your motors are so much better then a small block.I was just at a mopar race this past weekend with lots of good cars and I was in the fastest class there which was top et.My car is a street car with full interior and everything and there was only one car faster and it was a tube car with a big block and steam rollers.
3120lb, small block, 10.5" tire, NA, through exhaust, full int, WITH 83/4 REAR, 9.0 at 150mph
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