Moparts
Why do guys race small blocks?
Posted By: Hemi_Joel
Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 12:09 AM
What is the allure of the small block? I am asking because of interest and curiosity, not to start an argument. I just have always figured that you get more torque and power for the same investment of time and $ with a big block, so I'm wondering why not go big?
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 12:22 AM
I raced em for years then my friend Al turned me onto a guy who took us for a ride in a 500+ in Max Wedge..............Need I say more?
Posted By: Adobedude
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 12:28 AM
Because it's fun to beat big blocks.
Posted By: CHAPPER
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 12:34 AM
"..not to start an argument.." Yea, right!!
I see a
coming,
Posted By: 340B5
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 12:35 AM
Because it's too hard to get an 1800 gram bobweight in a Bigblock. Honestly, I'm a semi-reformed rpm junkie that just likes an engine that sounds like a chainsaw when you mash it.
Posted By: Hemi_Joel
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 12:39 AM
Quote:
Because it's fun to beat big blocks.
OK, I get it. The David vs. Goliath thing... 
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 12:41 AM
nearly 100 pounds lighter, more room same power
Posted By: Hemi_Joel
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 12:44 AM
Quote:
Because it's too hard to get an 1800 gram bobweight in a Bigblock. Honestly, I'm a semi-reformed rpm junkie that just likes an engine that sounds like a chainsaw when you mash it.
I get the RPM rush too, but times have changed. With all the parts and technology available now, guys are revving 500+ inch motors over 9000 every day. Unless you have to go 12,000 now because your are an RPM junkie that needs a bigger and bigger fix... 
Oh oh.. I think I just started arguing... Sorry, I'll just shut up and listen. 
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 12:53 AM
Our W5 mill was a bit quicker than my low buck 498, but my dad's car was a whole lot more fun to drive than my Mirada. I've just always liked the small blocks and it's good to be back!
Posted By: Sammy
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 12:56 AM
I like the sound of 9000 rpm's
Posted By: Locomotion
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 12:59 AM
Lighter parts, lighter overall weight, helps weight transfer, more room under the hood to work on it, might be cheaper and easier to get parts for. It's not always to be "THE" fastest. There will always be someone faster. As for speed, I've always run a small block. But I'm having as much fun or more running low-mid 11's now than when I was running low-mid 10's with my old Challenger. My current car pulls the front wheels better!
It's also fun to try & get more from less.
Posted By: 71yelladustr
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:04 AM
Lots of reasons. They are cheap and easy to come by. The exception of course, a 340. Toss a rod out the side of a 360, no big loss. Go find another block and start over. Do that will a big block and a replacement may be a little harder to find. This of course only applies to factory parts. The full-on race stuff is a different story. If you have a sb and get beaten by a bb, no body takes notice. On the other hand, beat a bb with a sb, everybody takes notice.
Posted By: perfmachst
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:04 AM
hi BINGO, I agree small blocks are fun. just as you say, get more for less.
Posted By: D-50
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:07 AM
I used to run big blocks . Changed to small blocks around 1996 in my Demon and that is all I have run since. And I like the challenge to go fast with less. We are running mopars so it is obvious we like to be the underdog or to be different. When I go to the track I am the only mopar there.
Posted By: 70AARcuda
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:12 AM
The stock pile of parts I have...
It would be crazy for me to change engines.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:15 AM
1. Need a new block for your SB? I can buy a core with a hydro roller set up any day of the week for $100, try THAT with a BB. That block will handle the same power as a stock BB.
2. Spark plugs are a pain in a BB not to mention plug wire routing around headers or manifolds and the location in the chamber sucks and needs a lot of advance.
3. #100 off the nose of the car for free.
4. Bolts up to a 904 or a-500 for free that saves power and wider ratios are almost free and is a lot lighter and I have never heard of a 904 drum exploding. If you get the right one you can shut off lock up with a simple switch.
5. Magnum heads can make just as much power as any free BB heads because of the increased efficiency.
6. Machined valve cover rails with 10 bolts, one piece oil pan gasket, no water on the head bolts or ex bolts (again magnum heads)
7. 4 inch cast cranks (No eagle crap) are real cheap and hold up fine in most apps.
8. Converting a SB car to a BB (most of our cars were SB) is a big pain, swaping trans, exhaust, mounts...
Me and most of my customers are broke folks that don't really need expensive blocks and heads and don't want to add the weight for little gain. I talked a good friend out of a 440 in his 318 68 Cuda, instead stroked a 318 mag to a 392 and he calls me all the time carrying on about how fast this thing is and how he is glad he did not go BB. Saved all the money on the conversion and it still handles well.
There is a place for a BB but it is not really what most guys need. You really should have aftermarket heads and 500+ cubes to make it worth it.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:21 AM
Because the have money to burn??? that or its regulated by class or something.
Posted By: ademon
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:26 AM
I like beating, BB Chevys, Fords, Pontiacs etc.. With my 71 340 demon, the look on their face is priceless when I pop the hood! Now a days your not giving up to much with these 420 to 440 + inch SB's
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:27 AM
Quote:
I like the sound of 9000 rpm's
I hear ya on the r`s they pull and it`s nasty sounding for sure but hard to get that motor to have stump pulling torque which I fell in love with..............They all have their place.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:35 AM
Quote:
I like beating, BB Chevys, Fords, Pontiacs etc.. With my 71 340 demon, the look on their face is priceless when I pop the hood! Now a days your not giving up to much with these 420 to 440 + inch SB's
yes but you can take a BB MUCH bigger for cheaper and have a more useful vehicle. You are pretty much tapped out at 440 ci in a small block w/o some crazy expensive parts. Unless you want to race an A-body BB is the only way to go. Of course this excludes road racing where handling is more important than power.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:37 AM
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I like the sound of 9000 rpm's
I hear ya on the r`s they pull and it`s nasty sounding for sure but hard to get that motor to have stump pulling torque which I fell in love with..............They all have their place.
who's car were you driving when you was doing the stump pulling?
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:40 AM
BB's and Hemi's were all the rage forever until the W8 came along.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:42 AM
Quote:
BB's and Hemi's were all the rage forever until the W8 came along.
what's a W8 cost? I mean say from carb to oil pan?
Posted By: Kindafast
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:45 AM
With all the stroker engines out there these days it makes no sense to run a heavy big block. My 422cubic inch 318 block has tons of torque and with the right heads will make all the power a big block could muster too. Half the weight !!!!!
Posted By: ademon
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:46 AM
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I like beating, BB Chevys, Fords, Pontiacs etc.. With my 71 340 demon, the look on their face is priceless when I pop the hood! Now a days your not giving up to much with these 420 to 440 + inch SB's
yes but you can take a BB MUCH bigger for cheaper and have a more useful vehicle. You are pretty much tapped out at 440 ci in a small block w/o some crazy expensive parts. Unless you want to race an A-body BB is the only way to go. Of course this excludes road racing where handling is more important than power.
Yes I like to race a light A body car, and also like it to handle. Why race a heavy B body that's nuts. At least pull the 500 + inch BB and stick it in something light !!!! LOL
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:50 AM
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I like beating, BB Chevys, Fords, Pontiacs etc.. With my 71 340 demon, the look on their face is priceless when I pop the hood! Now a days your not giving up to much with these 420 to 440 + inch SB's
yes but you can take a BB MUCH bigger for cheaper and have a more useful vehicle. You are pretty much tapped out at 440 ci in a small block w/o some crazy expensive parts. Unless you want to race an A-body BB is the only way to go. Of course this excludes road racing where handling is more important than power.
Yes I like to race a light A body car, and also like it to handle. Why race a heavy B body that's nuts. At least pull the 500 + inch BB and stick it in something light !!!! LOL
but I like to get my wife and kids in the car and drive..I also like to grab the groceries and a 30 pack if need be. Plus No A-Body EVER looked as cool as a B-body.
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:54 AM
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BB's and Hemi's were all the rage forever until the W8 came along.
what's a W8 cost? I mean say from carb to oil pan?
About the same as a mega block, indy 440-1 headed 500 inch big block. Because that's the minimum you will need to run with a w8 motor.
Posted By: ademon
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 01:57 AM
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I like beating, BB Chevys, Fords, Pontiacs etc.. With my 71 340 demon, the look on their face is priceless when I pop the hood! Now a days your not giving up to much with these 420 to 440 + inch SB's
yes but you can take a BB MUCH bigger for cheaper and have a more useful vehicle. You are pretty much tapped out at 440 ci in a small block w/o some crazy expensive parts. Unless you want to race an A-body BB is the only way to go. Of course this excludes road racing where handling is more important than power.
Yes I like to race a light A body car, and also like it to handle. Why race a heavy B body that's nuts. At least pull the 500 + inch BB and stick it in something light !!!! LOL
but I like to get my wife and kids in the car and drive..I also like to grab the groceries and a 30 pack if need be. Plus No A-Body EVER looked as cool as a B-body.
As long as your happy with your b I'm happy for you.
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 02:04 AM
It fits easier and has always been what I run. Enjoy the rpm, the way the car feels on the street and the look of people at race track when they see its a small block. Also enjoy out running big blocks.
Posted By: WHITEDART
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 02:08 AM
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BB's and Hemi's were all the rage forever until the W8 came along.
what's a W8 cost? I mean say from carb to oil pan?
About the same as a mega block, indy 440-1 headed 500 inch big block. Because that's the minimum you will need to run with a w8 motor.
that might get you close
Posted By: tubtar
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 02:18 AM
Why does a dog lick his own.............well , you get the picture.
BECAUSE WE CAN !!!
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 02:23 AM
Quote:
nearly 100 pounds lighter, more room same power
Some of us use Aluminum Blocks, which evens that 100 pounds out.. 
As far as power, just depends I guess..
As for more room, I'll give you that one.. 
Chris.. 
Posted By: WHITEDART
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 02:26 AM
the question should have been why are most of the guys on this site that race heads up ...running small blocks.... what won engine masters this year
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 02:32 AM
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nearly 100 pounds lighter, more room same power
Some of us use Aluminum Blocks, which evens that 100 pounds out..
As far as power, just depends I guess..
As for more room, I'll give you that one.. :hammer
Chris..
:
As far as power what do you got? I have been [Email]162@3195!![/Email] : With a small block!
Posted By: Adobedude
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 02:43 AM
Because bracket racer...
Final answer.
Posted By: Leon441
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 02:44 AM
I like the guys bragging about their BB then in their signature they post their slow results.
My small block gets 15 mpg. Runs 5.7's all day long. On the jug it runs much much faster. And you cannot build any comparable combo for what I have in it. R5P7 all over EBay. But, my other smallblocks kicked but too.
If I had anything other than an A body probably do a big block. Just to fill the engine for looks. I just don't need the headaches to run engines that are no faster.
Posted By: dartman366
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 02:45 AM
the reason why I run one? cause I like them.
Posted By: WHITEDART
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 02:50 AM
Quote:
I like the guys bragging about their BB then in their signature they post their slow results.
My small block gets 15 mpg. Runs 5.7's all day long. On the jug it runs much much faster. And you cannot build any comparable combo for what I have in it. R5P7 all over EBay. But, my other smallblocks kicked but too.
If I had anything other than an A body probably do a big block. Just to fill the engine for looks. I just don't need the headaches to run engines that are no faster.
\\\\\\BIG BLOCK BBQ:
Posted By: StrkrDart69
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 03:26 AM
I am still trying to figure out why guys race big blocks.
Posted By: Dartthunder340
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 03:36 AM
Because it's fun to hunt elephants with a small caliber bullet.
Posted By: SpareParts
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 03:55 AM
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BB's and Hemi's were all the rage forever until the W8 came along.
what's a W8 cost? I mean say from carb to oil pan?
If you look hard you can buy complete minus carb for $6-7k. That's with an R block
Posted By: 440W8 Duster
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 05:20 AM
Posted By: Ari440
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 05:25 AM
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BB's and Hemi's were all the rage forever until the W8 came along.
what's a W8 cost? I mean say from carb to oil pan?
If you look hard you can buy complete minus carb for $6-7k. That's with an R block
that's a lot of money for a door stop 
Posted By: SB412DUSTER
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 05:39 AM
Because Big block's Suck
Posted By: Ari440
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 05:51 AM
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Because Big block's Suck
big small blocks are a wanabe big block
Posted By: SpareParts
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 06:08 AM
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BB's and Hemi's were all the rage forever until the W8 came along.
what's a W8 cost? I mean say from carb to oil pan?
If you look hard you can buy complete minus carb for $6-7k. That's with an R block
that's a lot of money for a door stop
That's a 9.85 in your sig, not an 8.85..... around here the 4 cylinder guys can out run that 
Posted By: SB412DUSTER
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 06:08 AM
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Because Big block's Suck
big small blocks are a wanabe big block
I'm glad mine's not a big small block
Posted By: LA360
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 06:19 AM
Aussie Valiant's are all A Bodies, and were never available with a BB from the factory. So for me, it was availability. Some guys here just love Hemi 6's, so it's horses for courses I guess.
I am yet to see a Big Block mopar with Wedge heads make the HP/cube that a W8 engine can make.
Posted By: quickd100
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 12:16 PM
Quote:
Because Big block's Suck
To each is own but I got to like'n 764ftlbs@3500rpm naturally aspirated out of my BB and have yet to find a SB to match it. And that's on 89.5 octane.Dave 
Posted By: Guitar Jones
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 02:42 PM
I had a nice, mild, 550 horse iron head 440 when I bought my Duster. The Duster came with a 340. I looked at the 340, looked at the 440, looked at 340, looked at the 440 and decided to sell the 440. Been running small blocks ever since.
Posted By: 408strokerdart
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 03:37 PM
I like watching the expression on the brand X guys face when they look at my car in my pit and realize they just got out run by a n/a small block. They first look for a monster under the hood then they look for the bottle......finding neither.
Posted By: OA5599
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 03:42 PM
Test and tune night running a motor that looks like an almost bone stock 340 to the layman and running low 11s. Victims included a blown big block IROC Camaro as well as a few other big block cars that wanted to know where the N2O bottle was hidden. Hard to convince some guys the car had no bottle and running pump gas. But a stroker kit and and well ported Eddy heads have embarrassed a lot of iron the last couple of times out. ...or a Show-N-Go at an 1/8 mile track and have your stock looking small block car beat up on cars that have the words Boss, 454, or Hemi on the side...it feels good. If I were choosing a show or collector car, I'd obviously rather have a big block. But for my cheap junk on a budget, I have no interest in a BB.
Posted By: Duner
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 03:49 PM
We race small blocks because we don't know any better.
And with boost - my small block THINKS it's a big block anyway.
Posted By: MoparBilly
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 03:58 PM
Duner FTW!
I love racing a big block. Distributor in the front, external oil pump, flat pan gasket, cheap, easy, reliable horsepower.
But I can't figure out how to shoehorn one in here, and keep my 62 Valiant a street car. So it will remain a small block, and I will continue to marvel at how hard guys are willing to work to make these things fast. Huge respect to all of them.
Posted By: justinp61
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 03:59 PM
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Because Big block's Suck
To each is own but I got to like'n [Email]764ftlbs@3500rpm[/Email] naturally aspirated out of my BB and have yet to find a SB to match it. And that's on 89.5 octane.Dave
That's because there's never been a 600+" small (Mopar) block.
Posted By: Airwoofer
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 04:02 PM
My 496 would spin 9300+ in a heartbeat if you weren't careful in the waterbox without a pill. I may have went over (way over) the first time cause I wasn't watching the tach. I saw 9300+ the second time.
Big blocks can and do rev.
Posted By: DavidDean
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 04:44 PM
1. Because I'm crazy-- Deviate from the norm
2. To show bowties and big blocks their way isn't the only way.
3. To do it my own way damnn it
4. Because I've always raced SBMs and I've acquired quite a few parts
5. Continue to repeat 1 & 2
Indy headed X block-904-Dana 5.66 @ 120
Posted By: FASTFISH420
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 06:00 PM
Majority of people look under the hood of mine and dont know what it is with the wide W8 valvecovers and cam driven distributor.Most people see mine run think it has a Hemi in it,lol
Posted By: mafo
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 06:24 PM
Posted By: bentwheel43
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 06:24 PM
That red Duster runs 134 MPH in the 1/8 mile.
I call it a dragster in a can!!
Posted By: dizuster
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 06:45 PM
My guess is that it comes down to the fact buying a car with a big or small block in it costs money to switch over. Even if you’re starting with a survivor 318 car, it still has a trans core, alternator brackets, distributor, motor mounts, k-frame, timing cover, water pump, etc… It takes very little to build a 408” long block, and re-use most of that stuff to drop it in.
If you’re starting from scratch with a /6 car, then it’s a different story.
If you took a pole, I would bet most small block racecars on this site are A-bodies for just that reason. Just the same way that most of the big block racecars on this site are B-bodies too.
Mine has a small block in it because the magnum manifolds flipped backwards for the turbo easily, the block was already a hydraulic roller, and my Dad and I had a crap load of old used small block stuff laying around to use up.
But you can bet I would have started with a low-deck BB if I was building NA again. I could have bought out of the box BB Eddy’s, and they would flow nearly what my CNC ported small block Eddy’s do.
The regular 10 second type small block build would have a tough time competing dollar for dollar with an Eddy headed BB build. 400” BB cores aren’t exactly holding their price in the weight of gold, so there isn’t a huge “core price” advantage there. Machine work, cam, intake, oil pans, headers, etc… are all about a wash. So you’re down to the price of the heads and rotating assy. Eddy BB heads are cheaper then any equivalently flowing SB head. Even if you compare the price of the ported SB heads to offset the price of the higher rotating ASSY cost of the BB, would you rather have a 300cfm head on a 500” motor, or a 300cfm head on a 400” motor? The 500” motor is going to take a lot less gear, cam, converter, etc… to make work.
By the way… why are we comparing the prices of used, hard to find deals on W8 motors, compared to new BB build prices. There are certainly good deals out there for BB stuff too, so we gotta compare apples to apples.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 07:08 PM
dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 07:17 PM
Quote:
dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 07:26 PM
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dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Sure but you can do it easier w/ a 400 block, 440 crank, and chevy rods. Buddy's old valaint even had leaf springs and went mid 9's. Doubt the engine saw anything above 6500.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 07:31 PM
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dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Sure but you can do it easier w/ a 400 block, 440 crank, and chevy rods. Buddy's old valaint even had leaf springs and went mid 9's. Doubt the engine saw anything above 6500.
Your gonna have WAY more in any big block motor that will run mid 9's than 6-8 grand.
Just the top end will get close to that.
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 07:57 PM
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dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Sure but you can do it easier w/ a 400 block, 440 crank, and chevy rods. Buddy's old valaint even had leaf springs and went mid 9's. Doubt the engine saw anything above 6500.
The w8 motor will have top shelf parts and make 1000 of passes, the stock parts in your big block are questionable at best at that power level and be lucky to last a season racing it.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 08:23 PM
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dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Sure but you can do it easier w/ a 400 block, 440 crank, and chevy rods. Buddy's old valaint even had leaf springs and went mid 9's. Doubt the engine saw anything above 6500.
The w8 motor will have top shelf parts and make 1000 of passes, the stock parts in your big block are questionable at best at that power level and be lucky to last a season racing it.
dude had it for years... this was way before any "pre-packaged" kit was even available. I looked up W8 and r5p7 stuff, it's not cheap even used. Speed costs money no doubt.
Posted By: cudadoug
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 08:52 PM
Like anything else, there are pro's and con's to each, right?
Back in the day, I stabbed a untouched smogger era 440 shortblock in a Duster. Adding stock 915 heads, MP .557 cam, torker, 750 and those FUGLY fenderwell headers. With a 3.91 gear and dirt track tires I went high 11's easy and drove it EVERY DAY on 89 octane CA pump swill.
Replacing the smogger 440 with a smogger 360, could I have run those numbers?? NO FREAKIN' WAY!
That combo still can't be beat today for a low dollar hauler, as there are still plently of smogger 440's out there.
Having said that, I'm a small block convert under my current circumstances. I'm on a self induced A-body budget. I simply REFUSE to spend B or E body money on this hobby.
I don't like ANY of the BB/A-body header choices and I REALLY don't like fighting the BB/A-body to work on it. Therefore it makes the most sense for me.
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 09:01 PM
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dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Sure but you can do it easier w/ a 400 block, 440 crank, and chevy rods. Buddy's old valaint even had leaf springs and went mid 9's. Doubt the engine saw anything above 6500.
The w8 motor will have top shelf parts and make 1000 of passes, the stock parts in your big block are questionable at best at that power level and be lucky to last a season racing it.
dude had it for years... this was way before any "pre-packaged" kit was even available. I looked up W8 and r5p7 stuff, it's not cheap even used. Speed costs money no doubt.
Does he race the car? Like really race it not once or twice a year. I know of a w8 motor right now you can buy for 5000. You need to know where to look.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 10:05 PM
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dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Sure but you can do it easier w/ a 400 block, 440 crank, and chevy rods. Buddy's old valaint even had leaf springs and went mid 9's. Doubt the engine saw anything above 6500.
The w8 motor will have top shelf parts and make 1000 of passes, the stock parts in your big block are questionable at best at that power level and be lucky to last a season racing it.
dude had it for years... this was way before any "pre-packaged" kit was even available. I looked up W8 and r5p7 stuff, it's not cheap even used. Speed costs money no doubt.
Does he race the car? Like really race it not once or twice a year. I know of a w8 motor right now you can buy for 5000. You need to know where to look.
every weekend almost. On the back bumper too.
Posted By: StealthWedge67
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 10:07 PM
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the stock parts in your big block are questionable at best at that power level and be lucky to last a season racing it.
Please tell me you're kidding..... 
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 10:14 PM
"Does he race the car? Like really race it not once or twice a year. I know of a w8 motor right now you can buy for 5000. You need to know where to look."
plus what does one need for W8? how much stall? Gear? Most BB need 4000-4500 max. You can run 10's w/ 4.10's and you don't need to rev the tar out of it. The engine I have w/ a good intake and Dominator would run low 10's easy in an A-body w/ a 4000 stall and 4.10's. I could drive it 60 miles race and drive it home. I paid 3k for it valley pan to oil pan.
Posted By: dizuster
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 10:46 PM
$5000 for the W8, and another $2,000 to have someone build headers.
It's more then just the cost of the motor.
Again that is a one off deal. I also know a guy that bought a prostock motor for way cheaper then you'd think you could... but those deals are less common then the apples to apples conversation we're trying to have.
Posted By: ademon
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/30/14 11:09 PM
Quote:
"Does he race the car? Like really race it not once or twice a year. I know of a w8 motor right now you can buy for 5000. You need to know where to look."
plus what does one need for W8? how much stall? Gear? Most BB need 4000-4500 max. You can run 10's w/ 4.10's and you don't need to rev the tar out of it. The engine I have w/ a good intake and Dominator would run low 10's easy in an A-body w/ a 4000 stall and 4.10's. I could drive it 60 miles race and drive it home. I paid 3k for it valley pan to oil pan.
I don't know about low 10's with your motor, your only running mid 11's now! I will agree you would be faster in a tricked out 70 duster or something. Which brings us to the meat of the post your running 11's with a bb and some with sb are running 8's and 9's, are you wanting to pull your motor and stick it in a A body? Probably not, just like guys that are happy running whatever et with a SB couldn't care less about going to a BB.
Posted By: KOS
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 12:21 AM
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dizuster and I think alike. No way you can start from Penny one and build a 10.0 small block for the same cost as a BB, especially if you are running a b-body. And like he also mentions SB tend to need more gear, RPM and converter than BB, making them less drivable.
The only SB I'd consider using in a B-Body would be a boosted Gen III Hemi....and I'm seriously looking at that route. Of course I'll have to break this 440 1st.
For an honest 6-8k, you can buy a r5/p7 motor that will easily run mid 9's in a typical A body. Buddy of mine did just that, except his motor was on the low side of the above range, and was going 9.40's with it in a 68 Dart within a couple of outings.
Sure but you can do it easier w/ a 400 block, 440 crank, and chevy rods. Buddy's old valaint even had leaf springs and went mid 9's. Doubt the engine saw anything above 6500.
The w8 motor will have top shelf parts and make 1000 of passes, the stock parts in your big block are questionable at best at that power level and be lucky to last a season racing it.
dude had it for years... this was way before any "pre-packaged" kit was even available. I looked up W8 and r5p7 stuff, it's not cheap even used. Speed costs money no doubt.
Does he race the car? Like really race it not once or twice a year. I know of a w8 motor right now you can buy for 5000. You need to know where to look.
Hook me up im looking for a w8 motor....PM me
Posted By: bdaz smblk
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 12:55 AM
It's funny all u big block guy's think your motors are so much better then a small block.I was just at a mopar race this past weekend with lots of good cars and I was in the fastest class there which was top et.My car is a street car with full interior and everything and there was only one car faster and it was a tube car with a big block and steam rollers.
Posted By: 80arrow
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 01:41 AM
Because its what I had, lol.
Posted By: D-50
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 01:53 AM
Quote:
$5000 for the W8, and another $2,000 to have someone build headers.
It's more then just the cost of the motor.
Again that is a one off deal. I also know a guy that bought a prostock motor for way cheaper then you'd think you could... but those deals are less common then the apples to apples conversation we're trying to have.
I built my own headers for my D-50 and only have about $400.00 in them. First set I have ever built. There is no wat I would pay $2000.00 for a set. They are not that hard to do.
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 02:30 AM
Quote:
"Does he race the car? Like really race it not once or twice a year. I know of a w8 motor right now you can buy for 5000. You need to know where to look."
plus what does one need for W8? how much stall? Gear? Most BB need 4000-4500 max. You can run 10's w/ 4.10's and you don't need to rev the tar out of it. The engine I have w/ a good intake and Dominator would run low 10's easy in an A-body w/ a 4000 stall and 4.10's. I could drive it 60 miles race and drive it home. I paid 3k for it valley pan to oil pan.
Now we're back to mid tens? I have a 4500 stall convertor and 4.30 gears and have been 9.40s on pump gas. I too drive mine on the street, have full interior in it. I shift my motor at 7200 and used to shift it at 5800 to go 10.0 index racing. Good luck getting a second out of intake and carb swap, lol.
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 02:33 AM
Quote:
$5000 for the W8, and another $2,000 to have someone build headers.
It's more then just the cost of the motor.
Again that is a one off deal. I also know a guy that bought a prostock motor for way cheaper then you'd think you could... but those deals are less common then the apples to apples conversation we're trying to have.
Next time you need headers I will drive to Michigan pick up your car and get you headers for 2000.00. Could it be soon I need some money to but my car back together. I could get stainless headers for less then that.
Posted By: dvw
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 02:34 AM
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$5000 for the W8, and another $2,000 to have someone build headers.
It's more then just the cost of the motor.
Again that is a one off deal. I also know a guy that bought a prostock motor for way cheaper then you'd think you could... but those deals are less common then the apples to apples conversation we're trying to have.
I built my own headers for my D-50 and only have about $400.00 in them. First set I have ever built. There is no wat I would pay $2000.00 for a set. They are not that hard to do.
Trouble is not everyone can build headers, fab cross members to clear the oil pan. Not to mention Dry sumps, odd ball bell housings. extravagant cooling systems etc. If you do break a p-5/p7 parts are costly. I personally run both SB and BB. Each has it's advantages. Cheap power per dollar with new parts and low maintenance is not a w-8 or Nascar style SB. It is also not a Hemi or Predator. A eddy headed 408 or a eddy headed 500 BB are both probably the best bang for the buck. Not only can't the average guy afford too much more, then there's the maintenance. That takes both skill and money. Fortunately I can do my own motors, and have machine shop support. How many of these 8 second cars run 15 or more times a year? How many weigh 3300+ lbs? I'm sure some do, but not on the average budget.
Doug
Posted By: Gary Robbins
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 02:35 AM
I love to play with smallblocks...Come get ya some !!
Show me any street legal smallblock MOPAR in the 4'S in the 1/8 or 7'S on the 1/4 ??
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 02:41 AM
Quote:
I love to play with smallblocks...Come get ya some !!
Show me any street legal smallblock MOPAR in the 4'S in the 1/8 or 7'S on the 1/4 ??
There is none. But when Chad gets his w8 turbo deal done I am sure he would race ya!
Posted By: Leadfoot
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 03:01 AM
Let's come back to earth and be realists for a minute. Let's play how most of us play. Lets go dollar for dollar. Start with an empty engine compartment and a $5k budget. Let's toss in a builder motor of your choice. The builder motor is free. Pick a small block or a big block built with your $5k budget. What's going to get you the lowest E.T.? Same car too. A Duster will be a good platform to start with. Leave the transmission, exhaust and cooling out of the equation too. That's already included. We're talking just the engine.
That should automatically exclude the Hemi. That's the worst H.P/dollar investment we can possibly come up with.
But! I'll pick the small block. I don't think you can get down the track as quick on the $5k budget with a BB
No bottles either.
Posted By: Gary Robbins
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 03:14 AM
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I love to play with smallblocks...Come get ya some !!
Show me any street legal smallblock MOPAR in the 4'S in the 1/8 or 7'S on the 1/4 ??
There is none. But when Chad gets his w8 turbo deal done I am sure he would race ya!
Come on Brad you can do better than that ...Outlaw big turbo car against mine ...They don't even allow boost on bigblocks in what I'm racing
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 03:16 AM
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I love to play with smallblocks...Come get ya some !!
Show me any street legal smallblock MOPAR in the 4'S in the 1/8 or 7'S on the 1/4 ??
There is none. But when Chad gets his w8 turbo deal done I am sure he would race ya!
Come on Brad you can do better than that ...Outlaw big turbo car against mine ...They don't even allow boost on bigblocks in what I'm racing
Bottom 5s is all I know of. If I shead enough weight and push mine off a cliff I might get close to 4s.
Posted By: fishy340
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 03:20 AM
It's a shame they have to be street legal ca use I know 4 that run mid 4s.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 03:23 AM
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$5000 for the W8, and another $2,000 to have someone build headers.
It's more then just the cost of the motor.
Again that is a one off deal. I also know a guy that bought a prostock motor for way cheaper then you'd think you could... but those deals are less common then the apples to apples conversation we're trying to have.
Next time you need headers I will drive to Michigan pick up your car and get you headers for 2000.00. Could it be soon I need some money to but my car back together. I could get stainless headers for less then that.
X2. I'll build you a set of headers for 2k as well.
Posted By: SpareParts
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 03:31 AM
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It's a shame they have to be street legal ca use I know 4 that run mid 4s.
Go on.... I love me some SBM
Posted By: 72N96RR
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 03:51 AM
So is a low deck 400 stroked to low 500 cubic inches a happy place in between ?? I know its considered a big block but it has a lighter/ faster rotating assembly...
Posted By: dvw
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 03:55 AM
Quote:
Let's come back to earth and be realists for a minute. Let's play how most of us play. Lets go dollar for dollar. Start with an empty engine compartment and a $5k budget. Let's toss in a builder motor of your choice. The builder motor is free. Pick a small block or a big block built with your $5k budget. What's going to get you the lowest E.T.? Same car too. A Duster will be a good platform to start with. Leave the transmission, exhaust and cooling out of the equation too. That's already included. We're talking just the engine.
That should automatically exclude the Hemi. That's the worst H.P/dollar investment we can possibly come up with.
But! I'll pick the small block. I don't think you can get down the track as quick on the $5k budget with a BB
No bottles either.
BB parts currently for sale in the race section here.
511" short block,Ross pistons ,eagle rods, new $3300
Eddy heads,springs, $ 750
solid.549/.571@108 cam new $ 140
Cloyes chain and gears new $ 95
Valve covers, chrome $ 50
TM-7 intake, used $ 100
Still missing
Just missed pushrods and rockers, cheap
tappets,gaskets,oil pan,oil pump & drive.
I'd bet that would be close to $5500 total. If this thing wouldn't make close to 575-600hp I'd be surprised.
Doug
Posted By: justinp61
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 04:04 AM
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I love to play with smallblocks...Come get ya some !!
Show me any street legal smallblock MOPAR in the 4'S in the 1/8 or 7'S on the 1/4 ??
There is none. But when Chad gets his w8 turbo deal done I am sure he would race ya!
Come on Brad you can do better than that ...Outlaw big turbo car against mine ...They don't even allow boost on bigblocks in what I'm racing
And how much nitrous are you feeding your baby?
Posted By: Gary Robbins
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 04:21 AM
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I love to play with smallblocks...Come get ya some !!
Show me any street legal smallblock MOPAR in the 4'S in the 1/8 or 7'S on the 1/4 ??
There is none. But when Chad gets his w8 turbo deal done I am sure he would race ya!
Come on Brad you can do better than that ...Outlaw big turbo car against mine ...They don't even allow boost on bigblocks in what I'm racing
And how much nitrous are you feeding your baby?
Not as much as most or what you think...What's that got to do with anything anyway ??? N/A cars will never keep up with power adder cars as HP is HP any way you figure it !!! 
Posted By: WO23Coronet
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 04:27 AM
W8's get it done for sure, but for a comparably exotic BB head and likely a compareable price point you're looking at B1 stuff, which would win the HP race.
What stands out to me on this board is the SB guys seem more hardcore than the BB guys, seems to be more exotic W8 stuff in cars than B1's, just my observation
Posted By: justinp61
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 04:30 AM
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I love to play with smallblocks...Come get ya some !!
Show me any street legal smallblock MOPAR in the 4'S in the 1/8 or 7'S on the 1/4 ??
There is none. But when Chad gets his w8 turbo deal done I am sure he would race ya!
Come on Brad you can do better than that ...Outlaw big turbo car against mine ...They don't even allow boost on bigblocks in what I'm racing
And how much nitrous are you feeding your baby?
Not as much as most or what you think...What's that got to do with anything anyway ??? N/A cars will never keep up with power adder cars as HP is HP any way you figure it !!!
For a lot of us it has everything to do with it.
Posted By: Gary Robbins
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 04:58 AM
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I love to play with smallblocks...Come get ya some !!
Show me any street legal smallblock MOPAR in the 4'S in the 1/8 or 7'S on the 1/4 ??
There is none. But when Chad gets his w8 turbo deal done I am sure he would race ya!
Come on Brad you can do better than that ...Outlaw big turbo car against mine ...They don't even allow boost on bigblocks in what I'm racing
And how much nitrous are you feeding your baby?
Not as much as most or what you think...What's that got to do with anything anyway ??? N/A cars will never keep up with power adder cars as HP is HP any way you figure it !!!
For a lot of us it has everything to do with it.
I have 4 other cars from 8 second to 12 second quarter mile cars all N/A and none compare to low teen 60' at 3250# on a 275 drag radial...Besides if ya think it's easy come give it a try as the water is only luke warm and so easy even a HILLBILLY from Oklahoma can do it !!
Posted By: SpareParts
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 05:24 AM
Quote:
W8's get it done for sure, but for a comparably exotic BB head and likely a compareable price point you're looking at B1 stuff, which would win the HP race.
What stands out to me on this board is the SB guys seem more hardcore than the BB guys, seems to be more exotic W8 stuff in cars than B1's, just my observation
This is true. Maybe us SBM guys aren't scared to run some parts over lol. Open the bottle and shift it at 8200..... golden
Posted By: fishy340
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 05:31 AM
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BB's and Hemi's were all the rage forever until the W8 came along.
what's a W8 cost? I mean say from carb to oil pan?
If you look hard you can buy complete minus carb for $6-7k. That's with an R block
that's a lot of money for a door stop
Even though my heavier pump gas Streeter was 4mph and 2 tenths faster then you )
Posted By: fishy340
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 05:40 AM
MOPAR Pro Stock Chrysler Australia:
http://youtu.be/qKSuJ05kclMAnd there is a faster one built by Bob Book using Slawko heads...This is why we like sb's
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 05:49 AM
Quote:
MOPAR Pro Stock Chrysler Australia: http://youtu.be/qKSuJ05kclM
And there is a faster one built by Bob Book using Slawko heads...This is why we like sb's
So Now we're on to Pro Stock $100,000.00 stuff.. 
Chris..
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 06:00 AM
I shift my junk at 9400. I have less than 7k in this engine. Haven't changed a single part yet. Checked bearings every year and they still had coating on them. Now that there is over 5000 miles on it, I'm tearing it down this winter and refreshing the heads and rings.
Even with the Ti valves it'll cost less than $700 to do the heads
Posted By: LA360
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 07:17 AM
Lee car went 6.90's in testing with the new BRE bullet, ran 7.018 on it's first pass in the car.
Posted By: justinp61
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 12:07 PM
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I love to play with smallblocks...Come get ya some !!
Show me any street legal smallblock MOPAR in the 4'S in the 1/8 or 7'S on the 1/4 ??
There is none. But when Chad gets his w8 turbo deal done I am sure he would race ya!
Come on Brad you can do better than that ...Outlaw big turbo car against mine ...They don't even allow boost on bigblocks in what I'm racing
And how much nitrous are you feeding your baby?
Not as much as most or what you think...What's that got to do with anything anyway ??? N/A cars will never keep up with power adder cars as HP is HP any way you figure it !!!
For a lot of us it has everything to do with it.
I have 4 other cars from 8 second to 12 second quarter mile cars all N/A and none compare to low teen 60' at 3250# on a 275 drag radial...Besides if ya think it's easy come give it a try as the water is only luke warm and so easy even a HILLBILLY from Oklahoma can do it !!
What class?
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 01:51 PM
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"Does he race the car? Like really race it not once or twice a year. I know of a w8 motor right now you can buy for 5000. You need to know where to look."
plus what does one need for W8? how much stall? Gear? Most BB need 4000-4500 max. You can run 10's w/ 4.10's and you don't need to rev the tar out of it. The engine I have w/ a good intake and Dominator would run low 10's easy in an A-body w/ a 4000 stall and 4.10's. I could drive it 60 miles race and drive it home. I paid 3k for it valley pan to oil pan.
I don't know about low 10's with your motor, your only running mid 11's now! I will agree you would be faster in a tricked out 70 duster or something. Which brings us to the meat of the post your running 11's with a bb and some with sb are running 8's and 9's, are you wanting to pull your motor and stick it in a A body? Probably not, just like guys that are happy running whatever et with a SB couldn't care less about going to a BB.
My setup is far from prefect as it sits. The six-pack is a limiting factor as well as the stall and gear. I haven't even got a run w/ the cal-tracs yet nor have I messed w/ the outboards. Again this is a freshened up motor w/ a bunch of used parts. The SBs you are talking about are all out race motors and cost double or triple what I have and would never run close to 8's or 9's in a 3800lb car. And I have done the B to A body swap. I had a nice 383 that ran 13.20's (spinning)in a full steel 69 Charger, nothing special .030 over 10:1 383, ported 915 heads w/ 1.81, 2.14 valves, 509 cam, headers, torker II, 750DP...usual early 90's build pulled the motor stuck it in a 68 dart (gutted no inner fenders, gutted hood), and it ran 11.98 w/ a suspect trans. Car would have run easy 11.50's w/ a good trans. So I know what a lighter car will do.
$ for $ you won't beat a BB wedge. Sure you can spend a ton of money on a race SB or Hemi but for most of us here those are not options.
Posted By: MattW
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 01:55 PM
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I love to play with smallblocks...Come get ya some !!
Show me any street legal smallblock MOPAR in the 4'S in the 1/8 or 7'S on the 1/4 ??
There is none. But when Chad gets his w8 turbo deal done I am sure he would race ya!
Come on Brad you can do better than that ...Outlaw big turbo car against mine ...They don't even allow boost on bigblocks in what I'm racing
Bottom 5s is all I know of. If I shead enough weight and push mine off a cliff I might get close to 4s.
all over my keyboard!!!!!
Lets see 32 feet per second per second equals 183 mph depending on altituted 
You'll need an airbag Matt
Posted By: dagohman
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 02:06 PM
1. Because all I do is occasionally bracket race and TNT.
2. Its all I have.
3. SB's are are what I have worked on the most
That about sums it up
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 02:46 PM
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Quote:
"Does he race the car? Like really race it not once or twice a year. I know of a w8 motor right now you can buy for 5000. You need to know where to look."
plus what does one need for W8? how much stall? Gear? Most BB need 4000-4500 max. You can run 10's w/ 4.10's and you don't need to rev the tar out of it. The engine I have w/ a good intake and Dominator would run low 10's easy in an A-body w/ a 4000 stall and 4.10's. I could drive it 60 miles race and drive it home. I paid 3k for it valley pan to oil pan.
I don't know about low 10's with your motor, your only running mid 11's now! I will agree you would be faster in a tricked out 70 duster or something. Which brings us to the meat of the post your running 11's with a bb and some with sb are running 8's and 9's, are you wanting to pull your motor and stick it in a A body? Probably not, just like guys that are happy running whatever et with a SB couldn't care less about going to a BB.
My setup is far from prefect as it sits. The six-pack is a limiting factor as well as the stall and gear. I haven't even got a run w/ the cal-tracs yet nor have I messed w/ the outboards. Again this is a freshened up motor w/ a bunch of used parts. The SBs you are talking about are all out race motors and cost double or triple what I have and would never run close to 8's or 9's in a 3800lb car. And I have done the B to A body swap. I had a nice 383 that ran 13.20's (spinning)in a full steel 69 Charger, nothing special .030 over 10:1 383, ported 915 heads w/ 1.81, 2.14 valves, 509 cam, headers, torker II, 750DP...usual early 90's build pulled the motor stuck it in a 68 dart (gutted no inner fenders, gutted hood), and it ran 11.98 w/ a suspect trans. Car would have run easy 11.50's w/ a good trans. So I know what a lighter car will do.
$ for $ you won't beat a BB wedge. Sure you can spend a ton of money on a race SB or Hemi but for most of us here those are not options.
Just plugged my motor in your 3800 pound car, wallace spit out 8.94@151. R5P7 Duster has 7000 in his and goes mid nines na where are you getting a big block with type of parts in it for that money? Your not going too. Why do your examples keep getting slower? First you said mid nines, then mid tens now we are all the way down to mid 11s, big difference in those times.
I used to have factory 340 block, mp 3.65 stroke crank(close out 550 new) edelbrock rpms, eagle rods, m1 intake and off the shelf crowler roller. Low dollar motor ran on pump gas and went mid tens na and mid nines on the bottle.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 03:02 PM
You SB guys are comparing apples to onions. You are not going to take a stock 340-360 block and an a summit catalog and build a 9 second motor. (w/o boost or N2O) However you CAN do that with a BB wedge. The r5p7 motor is a freakin' NASCAR engine and the W8 is an all out race motor. If you want to spin it, One could take a KB all aluminum Hemi and run 6's w/ your logic.
The 11 second thing was me explaining I have done the B to A body BB swap and the car was much faster (as expected) with the same motor. That motor I got fresh off the stand intake to oil pan for $500 (I wish I could find that kind of deal again) Of course that was 1992-93.
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 03:06 PM
Alright, how fast can I go with an NA pump gas small block that I can run on the street with a 4 speed and 4.56s in my 3700 lb car for 7k?
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 03:29 PM
Quote:
You SB guys are comparing apples to onions. You are not going to take a stock 340-360 block and an a summit catalog and build a 9 second motor. (w/o boost or N2O) However you CAN do that with a BB wedge. The r5p7 motor is a freakin' NASCAR engine and the W8 is an all out race motor. If you want to spin it, One could take a KB all aluminum Hemi and run 6's w/ your logic.
The 11 second thing was me explaining I have done the B to A body BB swap and the car was much faster (as expected) with the same motor. That motor I got fresh off the stand intake to oil pan for $500 (I wish I could find that kind of deal again) Of course that was 1992-93.
Hello he paid $7000 for his motor, I dont care who built it. Can you get a aluminum hemi for 7000? maybe the block lol. Goes mid nines NA with a 358 small block. Whats your summit motor for 7000 that will go mid nines.
Posted By: Gary Robbins
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 03:46 PM
I've got nothing against little blocks as I have a 400+ eddy headed smallblock Duster streeter and a nice w headed 400+ setting in the floor...Besides,my next build will be a turbo smallblock w headed or gen3 Hemi
Posted By: MoparBilly
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 04:07 PM
Talking used motors? Indy Maxx low deck aluminum block, with Indy -1 heads, jesel rockers, roller cam, 512 inches dominator to dragster pan and dual line oiling system. 10,500. Slid it right in where my Eddie headed 440 came out. No need for custom adapters, or high dollar 7 inch converters.
I spent 9800 on my small block, and I already had the X block, rockers, pan, valve covers. I'm happy with it so far. If it was a BB, I'd know exactly how much N20 I could hit it with, and how many passes I could abuse it, before it needed freshened, the small block...I don't...yet. The fear of the unknown makes me nervous!
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 04:08 PM
My first hit of fun began with a 340 in my Mirada. It went from mild, to 6pak, to 4bbl with a NOS plate. About 93 we build our low buck RB stroker and put that in. That incarnation ended up running into the 9's at sea level over years of tweeking and upgrading..... but launch at 3400, shift at 5800, trap at 6200 was kind of s snoozer. It was waayyy more fun going back to SoDak and wheeling my dads W5 powered Duster. Even short shifting at 6800 that lil car would haul the mail. Big block car is gone..... so I'm back to where I prefer to be. A nice lowbuck iron head 360 that will run 10.8 in Vegas, and our W8 small block is residing between the fenders now awaiting it's first trek to the track. For the money I have in the W8 I'm sure I could have built more power with a big block package, but maybe not.... Either way, I love my small blocks!
Posted By: W5DART66
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 06:04 PM
Small block NA
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 06:22 PM
Simple answer to this question..........POWER is directly rated to air flow.......flow more air, make more power. Now the question to the question, is how much power you want to make.
If your goal is 700hp or less, either can easily do it, with the smallblock in this range only required to be slightly more exotic to achieve these numbers. And in a weight for weight car, the small motor should be quicker because of lighter engine.
If 800hp is what you want, both can still easily do it, but the big block gets more costly and the smallblock gets REALLY costly.
If 900 is your goal, this is big block land......... NOT saying a smallblock won't make 900, it will. But at that level the 900hp small motor will cost WAY more than the 900hp big block and be less reliable.
If you want a good bit over 900hp, this is big block land......PERIOD
Monte
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 07:38 PM
Quote:
Simple answer to this question..........POWER is directly rated to air flow.......flow more air, make more power. Now the question to the question, is how much power you want to make.
If your goal is 700hp or less, either can easily do it, with the smallblock in this range only required to be slightly more exotic to achieve these numbers. And in a weight for weight car, the small motor should be quicker because of lighter engine.
If 800hp is what you want, both can still easily do it, but the big block gets more costly and the smallblock gets REALLY costly.
If 900 is your goal, this is big block land......... NOT saying a smallblock won't make 900, it will. But at that level the 900hp small motor will cost WAY more than the 900hp big block and be less reliable.
If you want a good bit over 900hp, this is big block land......PERIOD
Monte
Is this for na motors? Or would you consider this for power adder motors too.
Posted By: 1Fast340
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 08:13 PM
Quote:
MOPAR Pro Stock Chrysler Australia: http://youtu.be/qKSuJ05kclM
And there is a faster one built by Bob Book using Slawko heads...This is why we like sb's
Love everything prostock,doenst mather if its 400 or 500 cui.
Except they make me feel inferior,makes me feel less capable,worth less.
i hate the obivous fact that some people have alot more talent.
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 08:40 PM
Quote:
Alright, how fast can I go with an NA pump gas small block that I can run on the street with a 4 speed and 4.56s in my 3700 lb car for 7k?
Posted By: 1320Dart
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 09:16 PM
Quote:
BB's and Hemi's were all the rage forever until the W8 came along.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a die hard BB guy. I'm not well versed in the SB area. So I'm going to ask a dumb question here.....
So what is this W8 thing all about. I'm just curious
Posted By: Paul_Fancsali
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 09:49 PM
Race what you want but back in day of the late 60s and early 70s I looked for 440 and hemi powered cars to race with my 340 Duster on the street. Most of the hemi's in particular were less then spectacular. I raced several Hemi powered cars on street and won. I was running modified dist and carb nothing else and I could really shift a 4 speed. Now I watch the new Hemi cars in 11s or better so trying to compare the old big blocks and small blocks ? why race a old Hemi when the new hemi one will be a winner stock? Face it times are changing and the cars are just plain faster , but that doesn't stop me from racing the new ones too If they are supercharged I say nitrous! But do what you want !!
Posted By: Duner
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 09:54 PM
NA smallblock?
I'm ruined for life.
I can't even imagine trying to make anything go fast without boost.
It's a no-brainer.
Posted By: Hemi_Joel
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 10:03 PM
Quote:
Don't get me wrong. I'm a die hard BB guy. I'm hot well versed in the SB area. So I'm going to ask a dumb question here.....
So what is this W8 thing all about. I'm just curious
Further, (revealing my ignorance of things that are not hemis) what is an r5p7? Is that a real small block mopar based engine, or a unique NASCAR creation? I looked at some pics online, and obviously the heads are not small block Mopar. How about the rest of it?
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 10:12 PM
Quote:
NA smallblock?
I'm ruined for life.
I can't even imagine trying to make anything go fast without boost.
It's a no-brainer.
A lot more complexity under the hood, I like it simple and easy and a 4.25 stroke in a 360 mag block is not hard or unreliable and can easily be made fast and drivable
Posted By: Duner
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 10:18 PM
Taking an otherwise completely tame and street friendly 400 hp 360 and making 800 hp with it by adding a turbo is just too easy for me to pass up.... and the torque is KILLER. Trying to make 800hp NA would be WAAAYYYY tougher - and most likely not bery street friendly.
Posted By: dragram440
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 10:39 PM
To me it just seems like to make a 3800 lb car run 10's was a lot cheaper and street friendly with big block. Can you really buy a new r5p7 engine for cheap? or we talking a used engine that could be shot to start with. Thats kinda a chance you take with used.
Posted By: 1Fast340
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 10:40 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Don't get me wrong. I'm a die hard BB guy. I'm hot well versed in the SB area. So I'm going to ask a dumb question here.....
So what is this W8 thing all about. I'm just curious
Further, (revealing my ignorance of things that are not hemis) what is an r5p7? Is that a real small block mopar based engine, or a unique NASCAR creation? I looked at some pics online, and obviously the heads are not small block Mopar. How about the rest of it?
ofcourse they are mopar,the p7 are just like the ancient poly heads found on the 318A engines. well kind of,almost.
Posted By: madscientist
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 10:51 PM
Quote:
Simple answer to this question..........POWER is directly rated to air flow.......flow more air, make more power. Now the question to the question, is how much power you want to make.
If your goal is 700hp or less, either can easily do it, with the smallblock in this range only required to be slightly more exotic to achieve these numbers. And in a weight for weight car, the small motor should be quicker because of lighter engine.
If 800hp is what you want, both can still easily do it, but the big block gets more costly and the smallblock gets REALLY costly.
If 900 is your goal, this is big block land......... NOT saying a smallblock won't make 900, it will. But at that level the 900hp small motor will cost WAY more than the 900hp big block and be less reliable.
If you want a good bit over 900hp, this is big block land......PERIOD
Monte
Once again, Monte is proving why he is one of the sharpest guys around.
It really is this simple.
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 10/31/14 11:09 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Alright, how fast can I go with an NA pump gas small block that I can run on the street with a 4 speed and 4.56s in my 3700 lb car for 7k?
Still waiting. Where'd the 7K 8 second 273 guys go?
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 12:16 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Alright, how fast can I go with an NA pump gas small block that I can run on the street with a 4 speed and 4.56s in my 3700 lb car for 7k?
Still waiting. Where'd the 7K 8 second 273 guys go?
R5P7 for under 7000 and done
Posted By: SpareParts
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 12:17 AM
Too many variables to your question. You already know this, can you drive it? Will it hook and go?
Buy an R3W8 motor or an R5P7 (that would love a manual trans) for 5-7k and away you go. You can't try to add in the cost of fuel and ignition system since the big block would need that too.
There, you got an answer, I'm not going to map out an entire build.... how would you be 3700 with a SBM tho?? Sports Fury wagon?? Lol
Posted By: dvw
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 12:29 AM
Used parts, deals and all that are just that, good deals. I'm one of the luckiest on the planet. Traded labor for the upper half, short block donated. Bought a few new parts. I saddled it down with stock eddy carbs and a cross ram. hat did I end up with? A 572 that has gone
9.12@147, 3340lbs, 10.5 tires for less than $3500. Is it a world beater? No way. Can I bracket race it with low maintenance, yes. Was I lucky to get it ,Yes Yes yes. It doesn't have.027" rings, how much are those? Headers are easy to make until the inner fenders are still there.
Doug
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 12:52 AM
Quote:
Used parts, deals and all that are just that, good deals. I'm one of the luckiest on the planet. Traded labor for the upper half, short block donated. Bought a few new parts. I saddled it down with stock eddy carbs and a cross ram. hat did I end up with? A 572 that has gone [Email]9.12@147[/Email], 3340lbs, 10.5 tires for less than $3500. Is it a world beater? No way. Can I bracket race it with low maintenance, yes. Was I lucky to get it ,Yes Yes yes. It doesn't have.027" rings, how much are those? Headers are easy to make until the inner fenders are still there.
Doug
I've got several brand new sets with .043 rings and .927 pins. Cheap cheap cheap... Also two cranks with Chevy journals. This engine will last me a lifetime unless the block splits in half.
Let this be our little secret... Cut the flanges off w2 headers and and tweak the tubes just a touch, P7 flanges will weld right on. Don't tell any one. OK? 
Posted By: dvw
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 01:13 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Used parts, deals and all that are just that, good deals. I'm one of the luckiest on the planet. Traded labor for the upper half, short block donated. Bought a few new parts. I saddled it down with stock eddy carbs and a cross ram. hat did I end up with? A 572 that has gone [Email]9.12@147[/Email], 3340lbs, 10.5 tires for less than $3500. Is it a world beater? No way. Can I bracket race it with low maintenance, yes. Was I lucky to get it ,Yes Yes yes. It doesn't have.027" rings, how much are those? Headers are easy to make until the inner fenders are still there.
Doug
I've got several brand new sets with .043 rings and .927 pins. Cheap cheap cheap... Also two cranks with Chevy journals. This engine will last me a lifetime unless the block splits in half.
Let this be our little secret... Cut the flanges off w2 headers and and tweak the tubes just a touch, P7 flanges will weld right on. Don't tell any one. OK?
How does a .043" ring fit a .027" groove? No way they run at 7000 and make power. I believe your video it looks like 8500+, am I correct? What if you want to change the cam? Nothing against the old NASCAR stuff. But I question the work required raises the costs. Also not everyone has fab skills necessary. I'm assuming dry sump, was that extra $? Oil lines? Tank? Accessory drive? How about the bell housing and converter stuff? Personally if I wasn't running a specific class ( N/SS) I would definitely consider a P-7. That being said fabrication doesn't scare me at all. How about a "total cost" to get it in the car? How many MPH has your
car run and at what weight, just curious as I know your still working on ET.
Doug
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 01:22 AM
I'm thinking Thumpers Dart dollar for dollar is the best going that I've seen..
Chris..
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 02:07 AM
Quote:
How does a .043" ring fit a .027" groove? No way they run at 7000 and make power. I believe your video it looks like 8500+, am I correct? What if you want to change the cam? Nothing against the old NASCAR stuff. But I question the work required raises the costs. Also not everyone has fab skills necessary. I'm assuming dry sump, was that extra $? Oil lines? Tank? Accessory drive? How about the bell housing and converter stuff? Personally if I wasn't running a specific class ( N/SS) I would definitely consider a P-7. That being said fabrication doesn't scare me at all. How about a "total cost" to get it in the car? How many MPH has your
car run and at what weight, just curious as I know your still working on ET.
Doug
I have several sets of pistons with .043 ring lands is what I meant. I never said that 7000 was what it made power at. $7000 is what I have in the engine itself complete. I bought all the accessories and motorplate for $1200 from EEI. I bought a complete engine in NEW parts for $3800 from John Nizamoff (PS Arrow). I bought the oil tank for $450 from Peterson. I bought a Lot of AN lines/fittings from a shop in SC for $200 (enough lines and fittings to plumb about 5 engines). Cut apart a 2 sets of damaged inconel headers (free) and made one set to fit my duster. Bought pin oilers for $75 around $300 in gaskets, $100 for aluminum freeze plug kit, $65 for one wire alt. $115 for 20AN kevlar upper radiator hose, $190 for a radiator. Had to buy some misc bolts for intake, water manifold, headers, and a dizzy hold down.
If you are willing to search around you can find awesome deals. If you want one tomorrow you may pay a little more.
I built the engine myself so, I only had $180 in finish machining on the block.
Yes, your eyes are correct 9400 rpms. All the fab was done by myself or at my buddies machine shop by me. But I thought we were just talking the price of the engine? Either way when making power you have to build a trans and buy a good converter so that point is mute.
To date the car has been 141 mph. Et is erratic due to traction/suspension issues as is the 60'.
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 02:44 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Alright, how fast can I go with an NA pump gas small block that I can run on the street with a 4 speed and 4.56s in my 3700 lb car for 7k?
Still waiting. Where'd the 7K 8 second 273 guys go?
R5P7 for under 7000 and done
How fast will it go? What in it? Cam/Compression/Displacement? What block? Where do you buy the heads? Intake?
I don't know anything about them really, I would like to drink from the goblet of knowledge.
P7 are the heads and R5 is the block?
What, if anything, interchanges with an LA or Magnum engines? Fuel pump, dizzy, etc.?
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 04:20 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Alright, how fast can I go with an NA pump gas small block that I can run on the street with a 4 speed and 4.56s in my 3700 lb car for 7k?
Still waiting. Where'd the 7K 8 second 273 guys go?
y
R5P7 for under 7000 and done
How fast will it go? What in it? Cam/Compression/Displacement? What block? Where do you buy the heads? Intake?
I don't know anything about them really, I would like to drink from the goblet of knowledge.
P7 are the heads and R5 is the block?
What, if anything, interchanges with an LA or Magnum engines? Fuel pump, dizzy, etc.?
All you had to do was read the post above yours.
Posted By: dvw
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 04:43 AM
Quote:
Quote:
How does a .043" ring fit a .027" groove? No way they run at 7000 and make power. I believe your video it looks like 8500+, am I correct? What if you want to change the cam? Nothing against the old NASCAR stuff. But I question the work required raises the costs. Also not everyone has fab skills necessary. I'm assuming dry sump, was that extra $? Oil lines? Tank? Accessory drive? How about the bell housing and converter stuff? Personally if I wasn't running a specific class ( N/SS) I would definitely consider a P-7. That being said fabrication doesn't scare me at all. How about a "total cost" to get it in the car? How many MPH has your
car run and at what weight, just curious as I know your still working on ET.
Doug
I have several sets of pistons with .043 ring lands is what I meant. I never said that 7000 was what it made power at. $7000 is what I have in the engine itself complete. I bought all the accessories and motorplate for $1200 from EEI. I bought a complete engine in NEW parts for $3800 from John Nizamoff (PS Arrow). I bought the oil tank for $450 from Peterson. I bought a Lot of AN lines/fittings from a shop in SC for $200 (enough lines and fittings to plumb about 5 engines). Cut apart a 2 sets of damaged inconel headers (free) and made one set to fit my duster. Bought pin oilers for $75 around $300 in gaskets, $100 for aluminum freeze plug kit, $65 for one wire alt. $115 for 20AN kevlar upper radiator hose, $190 for a radiator. Had to buy some misc bolts for intake, water manifold, headers, and a dizzy hold down.
If you are willing to search around you can find awesome deals. If you want one tomorrow you may pay a little more.
I built the engine myself so, I only had $180 in finish machining on the block.
Yes, your eyes are correct 9400 rpms. All the fab was done by myself or at my buddies machine shop by me. But I thought we were just talking the price of the engine? Either way when making power you have to build a trans and buy a good converter so that point is mute.
To date the car has been 141 mph. Et is erratic due to traction/suspension issues as is the 60'.
You did pretty decent on the accessory costs. I knew you didn't run it at 7000. Just pointing out that the RPM range on one of these motors is pretty high. The transmission question was, what special parts are required to bolt it up? I guess my point is you can't pull out a 340/360 and bolt one of these in in a weekend for 5-7K total. I love listening to it though. I'm sure you'll get the chassis hooking as well.
Doug
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 04:50 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
How does a .043" ring fit a .027" groove? No way they run at 7000 and make power. I believe your video it looks like 8500+, am I correct? What if you want to change the cam? Nothing against the old NASCAR stuff. But I question the work required raises the costs. Also not everyone has fab skills necessary. I'm assuming dry sump, was that extra $? Oil lines? Tank? Accessory drive? How about the bell housing and converter stuff? Personally if I wasn't running a specific class ( N/SS) I would definitely consider a P-7. That being said fabrication doesn't scare me at all. How about a "total cost" to get it in the car? How many MPH has your
car run and at what weight, just curious as I know your still working on ET.
Doug
I have several sets of pistons with .043 ring lands is what I meant. I never said that 7000 was what it made power at. $7000 is what I have in the engine itself complete. I bought all the accessories and motorplate for $1200 from EEI. I bought a complete engine in NEW parts for $3800 from John Nizamoff (PS Arrow). I bought the oil tank for $450 from Peterson. I bought a Lot of AN lines/fittings from a shop in SC for $200 (enough lines and fittings to plumb about 5 engines). Cut apart a 2 sets of damaged inconel headers (free) and made one set to fit my duster. Bought pin oilers for $75 around $300 in gaskets, $100 for aluminum freeze plug kit, $65 for one wire alt. $115 for 20AN kevlar upper radiator hose, $190 for a radiator. Had to buy some misc bolts for intake, water manifold, headers, and a dizzy hold down.
If you are willing to search around you can find awesome deals. If you want one tomorrow you may pay a little more.
I built the engine myself so, I only had $180 in finish machining on the block.
Yes, your eyes are correct 9400 rpms. All the fab was done by myself or at my buddies machine shop by me. But I thought we were just talking the price of the engine? Either way when making power you have to build a trans and buy a good converter so that point is mute.
To date the car has been 141 mph. Et is erratic due to traction/suspension issues as is the 60'.
You did pretty decent on the accessory costs. I knew you didn't run it at 7000. Just pointing out that the RPM range on one of these motors is pretty high. The transmission question was, what special parts are required to bolt it up? I guess my point is you can't pull out a 340/360 and bolt one of these in in a weekend for 5-7K total. I love listening to it though. I'm sure you'll get the chassis hooking as well.
Doug
If you add up what he has yes you can, you just need the adaptor plate that goes it a 727/904 trans and your done. I would assume sine you had a 340/360 you would already have Trans.
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 04:56 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Simple answer to this question..........POWER is directly rated to air flow.......flow more air, make more power. Now the question to the question, is how much power you want to make.
If your goal is 700hp or less, either can easily do it, with the smallblock in this range only required to be slightly more exotic to achieve these numbers. And in a weight for weight car, the small motor should be quicker because of lighter engine.
If 800hp is what you want, both can still easily do it, but the big block gets more costly and the smallblock gets REALLY costly.
If 900 is your goal, this is big block land......... NOT saying a smallblock won't make 900, it will. But at that level the 900hp small motor will cost WAY more than the 900hp big block and be less reliable.
If you want a good bit over 900hp, this is big block land......PERIOD
Monte
Is this for na motors? Or would you consider this for power adder motors too.
Doesn't matter, air flow is KING..........You are familiar with this heads up small tire stuff. Keith Berrys small block corvette, runs 4.0s with about the baddest small block twin turbo motor that can be built. He weighs 2600lbs........Dewayne Mills and several others go 4.0s with twin turbo BIG blocks. They weigh 3250lbs. Now why would that be.........because they make a TON more power, that's why
Monte
Posted By: fishy340
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 06:26 AM
How come no bb's run 50's in x275 if it's all about powa ? BB MOPAR gotta make a ton more hp then Ron Rhodes no ?
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 07:18 AM
Quote:
How come no bb's run 50's in x275 if it's all about powa ? BB MOPAR gotta make a ton more hp then Ron Rhodes no ?
You're kidding right??? There have been SEVERAL BB cars run in the .50s in X275. And lets see....oh yeah, big block cars have one kit and have to weigh 3250. Ron Rhodes can have all the kits he wants and weighs 2600..........Any more questions.......LOL!!!
Plus.....I don't think its a real secret that big blocks are capable of making more power than smallblocks. Super Stock Hemis are approaching the 1050 level with a stock valve angle head. Where is the 426 inch smallblock that does that? 500" smallblocks are possible, show me one that makes the power of a 500" BB pro stocker.
One more time......AIRFLOW.....AIRFLOW......AIRFLOW......LOL!!!
Monte
Posted By: ademon
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 08:49 AM
This post is about racing not what engine will make the most HP. In most of the classes and bracket racing any SB car can beat a BB, more the driver and setup and dial in.
Posted By: MoparBilly
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 04:51 PM
OK, to recap up to this point.
OP-WHY race small blocks, what is the allure.
Answers:
BECAUSE-
-they are lighter
-they fit in smaller places, take up less room.
-we are RPM junkies
-we are cheap
-as if being a Mopar guy is not underdog enough, now we are the underdog of the underdogs.
-the challenge of doing more with less
-more junkyard parts availability
-we are masochists who enjoy the pain and struggle of wringing out all the performance we can find
-we don't know any better (AKA it's all we've ever raced)
-it's the only way to use up all these parts I've accumulated for twenty years
-Big Blocks Suck
-exotic Nascar engines that require a ton of work to re-engineer, and install (see masochists)
-we don't have enough chips on our shoulder
-we have W8s and you don't
-need room for the turbo
-r5p7
-we think trying to run fast at 3800lbs is even crazier than trying to run fast with less inches
Ok, did I miss any so far?
Posted By: Duner
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 05:09 PM
I think that just about covers it Billy.... but move that weight up to 4600# or so. Some of us WISH we could get DOWN to 3800#.
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 05:22 PM
W8 mill for 7K ready to go...... Boy I sure didn't hit the easy button on that deal! Got a great deal on the top end..... but the rest.....WHEW!
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 06:02 PM
Thank god Monte still posts once in a while
Posted By: MoparBilly
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 06:23 PM
Quote:
Thank god Monte still posts once in a while
Darn it Ray,
If a guy had posted multiple times on this thread, and was the sensitive type, he might take that the wrong way!
By the way, was thinking of you yesterday when I shot this picture:
Posted By: fishy340
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 06:47 PM
Monte take a breath and answer the question...how many bb MOPARS ?
I don't need to know about other makes that do it,it's my boys motors that are the fastest
Posted By: mopars4ever
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 06:55 PM
more room in the engine compartment to work on it
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 07:18 PM
I LOVE both big and small blocks. I've gone
9.91@131 with a very mild 408 and
5.48@159mph with my big block. Both were NA and both should be running way better in 2015.
Posted By: Gary Robbins
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 07:31 PM
Quote:
Monte take a breath and answer the question...how many bb MOPARS ?
I don't need to know about other makes that do it,it's my boys motors that are the fastest
I see it coming...SILVERFISH on silverfish crime !!
W headed smallblock vs B1 headed bigblock !!
Fastback vs notchback !!
I'll give ya the back tire and the move !!
Posted By: SpareParts
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 07:53 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Monte take a breath and answer the question...how many bb MOPARS ?
I don't need to know about other makes that do it,it's my boys motors that are the fastest
I see it coming...SILVERFISH on silverfish crime !!
W headed smallblock vs B1 headed bigblock !!
Fastback vs notchback !!
I'll give ya the back tire and the move !!
I like the silver car's odds
Giving that much and knowing the little I think Iremember about the notch, I'd probably go with that one. Love both cars tho
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 08:15 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Thank god Monte still posts once in a while
Darn it Ray,
If a guy had posted multiple times on this thread, and was the sensitive type, he might take that the wrong way!
By the way, was thinking of you yesterday when I shot this picture:
Well, i was going to include you and one other in that statement also. I like that plate. I need one
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/01/14 08:47 PM
r5 on ebay... he has more that are more expensive 10k 13k I'd want to see paper work on the 829hp... plus what type of stall would one need for a motor that starts making power at 6500...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Dodge-Ray-Ev...751&vxp=mtr
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/02/14 07:19 AM
My converter is a 7000 stall
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/02/14 07:34 AM
Quote:
Monte take a breath and answer the question...how many bb MOPARS ?
I don't need to know about other makes that do it,it's my boys motors that are the fastest
Well I guess I don't understand the question..........you made the comment and then mentioned Ron Rhodes. He drives a SB Chevy, so I assumed you meant in general.
But if you are asking about BB Mopars in X275, I think they can run that number with the right serious effort combo. At present, I can only think of ONE guy who is even running that combo in X period and that would be Mr Robbins. And this is in no way shape or form a slight against him, plus I am sure he will agree, that his current combo is not a balls to the wall, all out, X275 combo. Spoke with him at Holly Springs and he admitted as much. His combo needs a little work, likely doesn't have the right cam and head, nor has he even approached the jet size the "hitters" in the class run. He is more focused on a "jet limited" 275 class in Texas, where he runs near the front of the pack.............So, knowing what the "go to" head in the X275 class will flow and what a properly done PSO head can flow, I would say a BBM can do it, just that nobody has yet. I would like to try it myself, I just don't have an X275 ready chassis, nor do I have the FIRST part for that type motor...........Now if somebody wants to volunteer up a car and motor, we will see what we can do.........LOL!!!
Monte
Posted By: KOS
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/02/14 02:58 PM
To me its more impressive when a sb runs hard BBs are expected to.ive had people come up to me at the track after a pass to check out the car and are shocked when they realize its a sb NA....they automatically assume its a BB because of how fast it is....we even had to set the track announcer straight.LOL
Posted By: Gary Robbins
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/02/14 04:38 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Monte take a breath and answer the question...how many bb MOPARS ?
I don't need to know about other makes that do it,it's my boys motors that are the fastest
Well I guess I don't understand the question..........you made the comment and then mentioned Ron Rhodes. He drives a SB Chevy, so I assumed you meant in general.
But if you are asking about BB Mopars in X275, I think they can run that number with the right serious effort combo. At present, I can only think of ONE guy who is even running that combo in X period and that would be Mr Robbins. And this is in no way shape or form a slight against him, plus I am sure he will agree, that his current combo is not a balls to the wall, all out, X275 combo. Spoke with him at Holly Springs and he admitted as much. His combo needs a little work, likely doesn't have the right cam and head, nor has he even approached the jet size the "hitters" in the class run. He is more focused on a "jet limited" 275 class in Texas, where he runs near the front of the pack.............So, knowing what the "go to" head in the X275 class will flow and what a properly done PSO head can flow, I would say a BBM can do it, just that nobody has yet. I would like to try it myself, I just don't have an X275 ready chassis, nor do I have the FIRST part for that type motor...........Now if somebody wants to volunteer up a car and motor, we will see what we can do.........LOL!!!
Monte
Your 100% correct as we are very conservative on our program...4.80's are easy with low 70's or high 60's doable but still does not make us a serious player in X275...The TEX275 jet limit class is in our back yard and our main focus as we're a serious player in that class !!
It was refreshing in Holly Springs at how many complements we got on our car with most coming from mustang guys...was amazing out of 50 cars 90% were mustangs and class could be renamed FOX275,Lol.
Now that they lowered BOP/MOPAR weight to 3000# and give us -6 nitrous lines along with having a new set of PSO heads I may have to order up some carbon fiber body parts and see how serious Monte is about making a BBM NOS combo run up front !!!!!
Posted By: WHITEDART
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/02/14 05:38 PM
Quote:
Alright, how fast can I go with an NA pump gas small block that I can run on the street with a 4 speed and 4.56s in my 3700 lb car for 7k?
i could go 10.00 sbm with 7k
Posted By: all spooled up
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/02/14 06:14 PM
Quote:
To me its more impressive when a sb runs hard BBs are expected to.ive had people come up to me at the track after a pass to check out the car and are shocked when they realize its a sb NA....they automatically assume its a BB because of how fast it is....we even had to set the track announcer straight.LOL
so what times does it run at what weight
Posted By: moparguy7074
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/02/14 06:53 PM
My stock stroke, cast crank, .030 over 360 has been 10.29 this year. Normally in mid 10.30s. My car is 2960 w/me in it. Not bad for a SS spring in stock location w/9" slick car.
That's why I run a SB.
Posted By: mafo
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/02/14 09:45 PM
Posted By: TurboMike
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/02/14 10:23 PM
Here is something from this website, with real life facts. Look at the fastest car list. The six second zone is 2 Hemis a small block and a big block. The seven second zone is dominated by big blocks and Hemis, with one small block. The eight second zone is where it starts to get more interesting. The first two entries @ 8.02 one twin turbo big block and a nitrous small block, then it seems to go back and forth between big and small blocks. Depending on power adders, cubic dollars, and vehicles. Maybe a matter of personal preference.
Posted By: fishy340
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/02/14 11:37 PM
True...but I know 4 sb's that would be deep 7's but they run 1/8.
.
Goss's challenger went 204mph in the 1/4 is just one of the 4.
Posted By: Stroker Scamp
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/02/14 11:54 PM
Quote:
My stock stroke, cast crank, .030 over 360 has been 10.29 this year. Normally in mid 10.30s. My car is 2960 w/me in it. Not bad for a SS spring in stock location w/9" slick car.
That's why I run a SB.
very impressive times...stock elim.car?
Posted By: KOS
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/03/14 02:24 AM
Quote:
Quote:
To me its more impressive when a sb runs hard BBs are expected to.ive had people come up to me at the track after a pass to check out the car and are shocked when they realize its a sb NA....they automatically assume its a BB because of how fast it is....we even had to set the track announcer straight.LOL
so what times does it run at what weight
its went best of [Email]9.64@138.5mph[/Email] @ 3350lbs.stock suspension dart CE 3way shocks all way around SS springs 15x7"wheel with 275/60DR not the PRO.factory 6pak hood, no vac pump or electric WP factory motor mounts nothing exotic under the hood looks like a 12sec car.
Posted By: moparguy7074
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/03/14 03:28 AM
Quote:
Quote:
My stock stroke, cast crank, .030 over 360 has been 10.29 this year. Normally in mid 10.30s. My car is 2960 w/me in it. Not bad for a SS spring in stock location w/9" slick car.
That's why I run a SB.
very impressive times...stock elim.car?
I wish! I don't have enough money to do that! Just weekly bracket race at one of the toughest tracks around, Norwalk Ohio! 
Posted By: SpareParts
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/03/14 04:14 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Monte take a breath and answer the question...how many bb MOPARS ?
I don't need to know about other makes that do it,it's my boys motors that are the fastest
Well I guess I don't understand the question..........you made the comment and then mentioned Ron Rhodes. He drives a SB Chevy, so I assumed you meant in general.
But if you are asking about BB Mopars in X275, I think they can run that number with the right serious effort combo. At present, I can only think of ONE guy who is even running that combo in X period and that would be Mr Robbins. And this is in no way shape or form a slight against him, plus I am sure he will agree, that his current combo is not a balls to the wall, all out, X275 combo. Spoke with him at Holly Springs and he admitted as much. His combo needs a little work, likely doesn't have the right cam and head, nor has he even approached the jet size the "hitters" in the class run. He is more focused on a "jet limited" 275 class in Texas, where he runs near the front of the pack.............So, knowing what the "go to" head in the X275 class will flow and what a properly done PSO head can flow, I would say a BBM can do it, just that nobody has yet. I would like to try it myself, I just don't have an X275 ready chassis, nor do I have the FIRST part for that type motor...........Now if somebody wants to volunteer up a car and motor, we will see what we can do.........LOL!!!
Monte
PLEASE CONTACT GUP SO WE FANS HAVE A GUY TO ROOT FOR!!!!
Monte, can I get your input on Fred Brewer heads please?
Posted By: fishy340
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/03/14 05:21 AM
I hope and love to see a mopar contender bb or sb in Ultra or x275.
4.40s and 50's is the norm these days especially after the Bruders did what they've done the last 2 events.
Im personally gonna run ultra because of weight and minimal changes I have to make.
I wanted to really check the chassis this year w the sb indy motor.I gotta tell ya with a 26 jet and 13 degrees of timing out way safe....that little sucker moves
.
I was hopeing to atleast get up to a 36jet this yr,but Winter is here.
Anyways we will see next yr if a 15* sb can run hard enough.
440" w9 tons of head work from Brett Miller and chamber work for lots of nos use from a top notch cylinder head shop.
4/7 cam swap 60 mm
With all the bells and whistles which should yield 1300hp+.
9"
Pro glide
Posted By: SpareParts
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/03/14 05:27 AM
I am really looking forward to seeing what you can do with the new bullet. I envy it very much!! Lol it should be a killer.
Posted By: littleVAL
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/03/14 06:34 AM
I am a street car kind of guy and because of that I really don't expect to make over 400-500hp. If you can make that easily with a lighter engine it makes handling launching and sometimes mileage better. I will admit if I had a b body or other heavy car I would go to a big block.
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/03/14 07:10 AM
they take up less room storing them!
Posted By: FlyFish
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/03/14 03:09 PM
I just have too many small block parts to warrant the switch to a big block...besides, my goal was to build a mid 10 second street car that was reliable enough that I could drive it all over town AND to and from the race track...mission accomplished.
Posted By: Tobbe
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/03/14 09:41 PM
until i have my rb/BB dart put together ,i race my sb dakota
i like to race i don't mind a sb its still a mopar
Posted By: dartman366
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/04/14 03:34 AM
after spending most of my summer doing a RB, A body car for a guy, I can say most assuredly that I am not in any rush to do this for myself,,my body just finally healed up from the last one.
Posted By: SB449VALIANT
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/04/14 10:16 PM
Posted By: cudasteve68
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/05/14 02:56 AM
Quote:
I am still trying to figure out why guys race big blocks.
I raced both. I like the feeling of the front end dropping at 128mph cause it is still pulling with a big block. The small block was a great bracket car. After you pulled high gear I had all the time in the world to look for that big block chasing me.
Posted By: 1967dartgt
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/05/14 04:49 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I am still trying to figure out why guys race big blocks.
I raced both. I like the feeling of the front end dropping at 128mph cause it is still pulling with a big block. The small block was a great bracket car. After you pulled high gear I had all the time in the world to look for that big block chasing me.
Yes so do I, I like the dropping feeling at the eighth at 129 with my small block.
Posted By: SpareParts
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/05/14 07:11 AM
^^^^^^ Did you guys catch that? I caught that, I laughed
Posted By: Ian
Re: Why do guys race small blocks? - 11/11/14 12:46 AM
std 360 block pump fuel runs mid 9 at 143 mph at 3550 lbs with some gas 10 s with out .thats why i like them
