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Re: Aluminum BB Cylinder Head hierarchy
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1689041
10/23/14 05:43 PM
10/23/14 05:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,106
Quebec, Canada
Diablo
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,106
Quebec, Canada
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My list would be Predator....B-1 TS....B-1 PSO.......B1-MC.......B-1.......600-13......572-13......440-1 and then anything else. Might be some debate on the original B-1 vs the 600-13. Also a stretch to call a 440-1 a "race" head as it is common on street cars. I myself would pretty much consider anything less than a 440-1 a street head or street/strip head at best. Just depends on your performance goals and intended use. Just because you have an Edelbrock head on your "race" car, doesn't mean it was designed to be a "race" head.
Likely the LEAST user friendly head of the group is the B-1 TS, as there just are not commonly available parts to make it work correctly. Needs a custom intake and really needs the lifters moved in the block to be optomized
Monte
What about the B1 T/S 4.84 heads.. I remember you saying you have a set stashed away, and since the Predators are only 4.80 I would think that puts the B1 T/S on top.. 
Chris.. 
I do have a set of 4.840 TS heads with the "Wayne County" head bolt pattern. They are currently at Buck Racing Engines getting some work done on them. They SHOULD be better than a Predator because of bore size alone, but I really didn't include them because of rarity and most don't even know they exist.
Monte
I agree mostly with this list. I'm not sure I would put either of the 4.8 or 4.840 b1-TS heads above the Predators. If anything I would put them on par. Since the TS stuff needs a lot of extra work to get them to be reliable and work well.
When we were working with the 4.840 b1-Ts stuff we pondered about going to the Predator stuff but when it came down to it neither were going to push the power much past 1300hp.
We had worked with 3 sets of 4.840 TS heads and the flow numbers some "think" they make may not be the reality.
Monte.... What size valve were you able to get in your TS heads?
I would't put the 600-13 heads anywhere near the Preds , Ts, Pso heads. Just cause they are on a larger Bore space does not equal performance.
The reason we had to just quit with the B1-TS or Pred stuff was their limited nature. Our first 5" Hemi 99 engine put all our TS stuff to shame and now our new Billet 5" Goodwin engine put that Hemi to shame.
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Re: Aluminum BB Cylinder Head hierarchy
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1689042
10/24/14 04:12 AM
10/24/14 04:12 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,161
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,161
Bend,OR USA
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My list would be Predator....B-1 TS....B-1 PSO.......B1-MC.......B-1.......600-13......572-13......440-1 and then anything else. Might be some debate on the original B-1 vs the 600-13. Also a stretch to call a 440-1 a "race" head as it is common on street cars. I myself would pretty much consider anything less than a 440-1 a street head or street/strip head at best. Just depends on your performance goals and intended use. Just because you have an Edelbrock head on your "race" car, doesn't mean it was designed to be a "race" head.
Likely the LEAST user friendly head of the group is the B-1 TS, as there just are not commonly available parts to make it work correctly. Needs a custom intake and really needs the lifters moved in the block to be optomized
Monte
Half the heads on Monte list I've never heard of  Predators, B1, B1 MC and then 440 is what I have heard of and know some folks who have used them, it must be nice to have access to the rest on that list   Probally helps to be current on whats out there and how they work
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Aluminum BB Cylinder Head hierarchy
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1689043
10/24/14 04:31 AM
10/24/14 04:31 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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My list would be Predator....B-1 TS....B-1 PSO.......B1-MC.......B-1.......600-13......572-13......440-1 and then anything else. Might be some debate on the original B-1 vs the 600-13. Also a stretch to call a 440-1 a "race" head as it is common on street cars. I myself would pretty much consider anything less than a 440-1 a street head or street/strip head at best. Just depends on your performance goals and intended use. Just because you have an Edelbrock head on your "race" car, doesn't mean it was designed to be a "race" head.
Likely the LEAST user friendly head of the group is the B-1 TS, as there just are not commonly available parts to make it work correctly. Needs a custom intake and really needs the lifters moved in the block to be optomized
Monte
Half the heads on Monte list I've never heard of Predators, B1, B1 MC and then 440 is what I have heard of and know some folks who have used them, it must be nice to have access to the rest on that list Probally helps to be current on whats out there and how they work
All the B-1s are just the revamping of the head during its run as a Pro-Stock head. You had the Original B-1.......next was the B-1 MC (moved centerline) which allowed a larger intake valve. Next was the B-1 PSO (Pro Stock Option). This is an extreme raised port head but LOOKS just like the MC from the outside, but you pull the valve cover and the runners are RIGHT there. All the valve gear is basically above the VC rail because the roof is raised so much. Next was the B-1 TS(totally serious) and was the last of the REAL Mopar Pro-Stock heads. Good head, but was really no match for the GM DRCE (drag race corporate engine) head. This is NOT an inline wedge head, but a canted and splayed valve head. These heads would have had WAY more potential had they not elected to keep the center exhaust ports paired. They also made a 4.840 and 4.900 bore space version of this head. After the TS, the next Pro-Stock head was the Eicke head. I didn't bother to mention it, because it is just a Big Block Chevy head with a Mopar insignia cast in it, plus they are really rare.
The 572-13 and the 600-13 are INDY inline wedge heads. The 572-13 is the largest port head they make and the 600-13 is designed to go on the 4.840 bore space block that INDY offers. These two heads never lived up to the hype in my opinion, as I still think B-1s are better than either of these.
Somebody mentioned ZEEKER heads. These are the original 440-1s. Loren Zeedyk originally designed the heads and started casting them. Poor castings and likely even poorer business practices, forced him to sell the design to INDY, or it was just taken, depending on who you choose to believe.
FBS......Fred Brewer heads, were supposed to be the next great thing, but that never materialized. As trying to make the heads LOOK like a Mopar head, to keep the purists happy, just limits what you can do to make them better and these also have casting issues and are prone to leak water.
Monte
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Re: Aluminum BB Cylinder Head hierarchy
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1689044
10/24/14 01:29 PM
10/24/14 01:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,932
Finalnd, Perkele
jyrki
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,932
Finalnd, Perkele
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I guess the FBS heads for mopar was an attempt to get more market for the design, as they were already available as AMC versions. There is only so much you can do with an inline wedge design with the regular siamesed intake ports. Actually the AMC heads are still available as billet heads. I really don't know much about them, but guess they are an upgrade over the 18 year old 440-1's currently on the block. But we'll see, once I get them here I will take them to a local flowbench, and I have some other data from the same bench to compare with, our 440-1's, several B1's both regular and MC, and CNC'd MW Victors.
Last edited by jyrki; 10/24/14 01:31 PM.
Plynouth VIP '67 TT IC EFI
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Re: Aluminum BB Cylinder Head hierarchy
[Re: jyrki]
#1689045
10/24/14 04:34 PM
10/24/14 04:34 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 345
Nebraska
451Cuda
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 345
Nebraska
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I guess the FBS heads for mopar was an attempt to get more market for the design, as they were already available as AMC versions. There is only so much you can do with an inline wedge design with the regular siamesed intake ports. Actually the AMC heads are still available as billet heads. I really don't know much about them, but guess they are an upgrade over the 18 year old 440-1's currently on the block. But we'll see, once I get them here I will take them to a local flowbench, and I have some other data from the same bench to compare with, our 440-1's, several B1's both regular and MC, and CNC'd MW Victors.
They're hard to find now, and chances are you'll be dealing with leaks. Pretty sad considering the potential they had. I actually bought a set and was sending Fred money in anticipation of getting the CNC porting done and a manifold made, but I ended up pulling the plug and requesting a refund when a friend told me of all the problems he had getting them to run without leakage problems.
Better off going with B1 MC or PSO heads for the same type of build.
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Re: Aluminum BB Cylinder Head hierarchy
[Re: madscientist]
#1689048
10/25/14 11:25 AM
10/25/14 11:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Cab you left out Indy 600-13, 572-13, Brewer and Zeeker. Well Brewers if they will hold water and Zeekers if you can find them. But they are also options from best to least.
Have you used/flowed the Brewers?
I hear how great they are...but I never see them...and just by looks ( I would flow them for FREE to ANYONE who has one available) they are not impressive. Especially for engines over 500 CID. The CSA looks way too small to do much.
I personally saw the dyno (Lance Lines DTS) needle pass 1100 hp on a 604 Brewer motor. Those heads flow VERY well, because the valve to port angle is extremely low. I am not sure of the flow numbers, (500 intake?)but all that counts is the car went 7.80s at 2500 lbs at BIR in Minnesota. That track is at 1300 feet.
As an added note, those heads, due to the small high velocity ports, pull their power 500 rpm below other heads similar.
Last edited by gregsdart; 10/25/14 11:27 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Aluminum BB Cylinder Head hierarchy
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#1689050
10/25/14 12:05 PM
10/25/14 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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I spent an hour and a half making a list, only to lose my post because my picture was supposedly too big. Sometimes I really hate this site!
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: Aluminum BB Cylinder Head hierarchy
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1689053
10/25/14 01:18 PM
10/25/14 01:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
cudadon
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
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No love for the 295CC SR's huh... 
I`ve been considering these myself when I step up...........
Thumper I think you will like them.
They work good on my "racecar" decent flow/power without being EXOTIC.
Don
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Re: Aluminum BB Cylinder Head hierarchy
[Re: sasquatch]
#1689055
10/25/14 04:20 PM
10/25/14 04:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 345
Nebraska
451Cuda
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 345
Nebraska
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This list will always come down to application and cost. Comparing the low line budget heads to B1MC or the big Indy and Predator stuff is nuts. I think the original poster might find better info if he listed what application he is searching for and in lieu of just raw flow data, perhaps HP and Torque numbers and RPM potential might be more useful in comparing heads. What makes something a race head or a street head? I have built hemis with 500 plus cfm for the street and iron oem heads that ran in the 9s. The line between the two is impossible to define. Just my 2cents but knowing what you are trying to achieve is paramount in navigating the best path to get there.
todd 
Agreed, we need some info on what type of build he wants to do.
I suggested the B1 MC and PSO as replacement for someone considering FBS heads, which would be a serious wedge build with 4.80 block.
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Re: Aluminum BB Cylinder Head hierarchy
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1689057
10/25/14 11:30 PM
10/25/14 11:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,141
Central NC
gch
master
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,141
Central NC
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No love for the 295CC SR's huh...
I`ve been considering these myself when I step up...........
Thumper I think you will like them.
They work good on my "racecar" decent flow/power without being EXOTIC.
Don
Definately going to consider those after I get the most out of the junk I have now.
Send me your old ones when you are done. 
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Re: Aluminum BB Cylinder Head hierarchy
[Re: Digger73]
#2110369
07/15/16 04:43 AM
07/15/16 04:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 51
Vacaville, Ca
Kenny705K
member
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member
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Posts: 51
Vacaville, Ca
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I know this is an old post, but I haven't been on the site in a LONG time haha....Looking over a lot of great topics by all you guys. After reading a lot about people's opinions on all the "Mopar" heads, I think a lot of you guys are underrating some of them. Seems a lot of people don't think highly of the 600-13 heads. But, I can tell you that our Valiant at about 2,600-2,700 pounds ran a 7.40 @ 187 m.p.h. with a naturally aspirated 622 with these heads. And that was without ever pushing it to it's max, this was with never once changing jets or timing and running it fat and trying to run a 7.60 index. The chassis is mild steel and not legal to go faster than 7.50. I will have to get back to you on any possible flow numbers, but obviously these have had a lot of work done to them, and the guy's that built the motor don't give Indy too much credit for any help at all.
Last edited by Kenny705K; 07/15/16 04:54 AM.
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When I was looking for a set of heads for my 493 street/strip car I wanted a street strip head and the head that fit my particular build was an Indy EZ which is absent from the lists posted 
