Re: Magnum/LX platform frame rust?
[Re: 5thAve]
#1686524
11/11/14 10:05 PM
11/11/14 10:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 105 ON, Canada
AMC400Mopar
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 105
ON, Canada
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Here is an update on the serious structural defect with my 2005 Dodge Magnum RT, and how the situation has been handled thus far by Chrysler Canada. I fear this potentially dangerous situation likely affects other 2005 Chrysler LX-Platform vehicles.If you own or know someone that has a 2005 Magnum/Charger/300 please carefully inspect the frame structure alongside the catalytic converters!
The catalytic converters have burned through the factory applied protective coating on the frame structure, allowing quick formation of rust on the frame structure. I believe this defect has gone unnoticed because it is in a location that is very difficult to see. I would also like to describe how this serious structural rust perforation defect has been mishandled by Chrysler Canada. As this problem could result in wrongful death or injury, I feel it is important to share this information.
My clean Magnum RT was recently found to have developed a serious corrosion issue with the frame structure immediately adjacent to the catalytic converters, on both sides. Following an investigation by Niagara Chrysler a report was sent to the District Service Manager. Performance Collision, an authorized Chrysler body shop in St.Catharines, ON, also inspected my car and quoted over $8000 to replace the rotten frame members.
The following is a more in depth overview of the defect with my Magnum RT: I purchased my Magnum RT this past March, certified, with 145,000km, from the original owner. The car is exceptionally clean and has never been in an accident, had any bodywork or been undercoated or modified in any way. On Oct 16, 2014, while repairing a broken dipstick handle (which necessitated removing the dipstick tube from the right side of the engine) my mechanic was shocked to discover rust perforation of the frame structure alongside the catalytic converters. In his opinion intense heat from the catalytic converters had burned away the factory protective coating on the frame structure, allowing rust to form on the resulting bare metal. He was worried about the safety of the vehicle and advised me to talk to Chrysler right away and to get it repaired. On Oct 21, 2014, Performance Collision (Part of Performance Chrysler) was just able to glimpse the damage from above, and scheduled me to come back for a more thorough inspection. Later that day I visited two other respected local body shops in Niagara Falls, ON. Dominion Auto Body was shocked at the rust perforation damage to the frame structure, and feared other LX-Body Chrysler cars may share the same hidden defect. The inspecting technician felt the rust perforation was caused by heat from the catalytic converters damaging the factory chassis coating. They refused to repair the vehicle, and advised me not to try to stop the rust from spreading by oil spraying or treating the area because of risk of fire. Maple Leaf Auto Body estimated repair would take 30 to 40 hours and would require removal of the engine, transmission and exhaust to properly access the damaged area. They did not want to take on the work. They told me to talk to Chrysler right away, as this is a serious structural safety defect they felt was caused by heat from the catalytic converters damaging the protective coating on the frame structure. On Oct 23, 2014, my car was inspected by two mechanics at Niagara Chrysler. They noted the frame drain holes were clear and were surprised by the rust perforation damage to the frame structure immediately adjacent to the catalytic converters. Service Manager was called over to see; he was concerned and promptly took photos and sent in a report to his District Service Manager. I was charged $52.50 for the inspection, and was told I would be reimbursed that amount if Chrysler would do the repairs. I was advised to call Chrysler Customer Care and have the car inspected by an approved body shop. On Oct 24, 2014, my car was inspected at Performance Collision by two technicians. They remarked how clean and well-maintained the rest of my car is. I was told the drive train, engine cradle, interior and exhaust system would need to be removed to replace the rust damaged frame structure. They said they could imagine how a mechanic could miss the damaged area during routine service as it is very difficult area to see, especially when the exhaust system is hot. They also felt this rust problem has been growing in my car for years. They estimated $8107 to repair the damage properly and safely. Both Niagara Chrysler and Performance Collision were excellent to deal with and showed regret for the defect with my car and concern for my safety until it is properly repaired. That afternoon I filed a report with Chrysler Canada Customer Care, Case file number 25844173.
On the morning of Oct 27 2014 Chrysler Canada Customer Care called to tell me my file had been escalated. Later that day Niagara Chrysler called me to tell me the DSM was not willing to do a goodwill repair. Chrysler Canada Customer Care called shortly after, saying they had reviewed my case file and decided the defect with my car was too far outside the warranty period for them to repair. They added if the frame structure rust perforation defect was later found to be chronic among LX-body cars they would extend the warranty or issue a recall. Chronic or not, this defective condition exists in my car and I don't see how the number of similarly affected cars has any bearing on Chrysler's level of responsibility. Regardless, on Oct 28 2014 I personally inspected five wrecked LX-body Chryslers, ranging from 2005 to 2010, at Millers Auto Recycling in Fort Erie. I found a 2005 Chrysler 300C with 216,774km that was showing similar frame rust in the same exact locations adjacent to the catalytic converters as my car, though the rust had not yet perforated the steel to the severe extent it has on my car. I politely called Chrysler Canada Customer Care to ask for an email address where I could send my rust perforation photos and copies of the estimates to repair my car so they might better understand the problem. They refused to provide an email address for any employee of Chrysler Canada Customer Care or to any higher level of Chrysler Canada management. I was told I could send something to the Chrysler Canada Customer Care general mailbox, but I was warned they would not accept emailed files of photographs or work orders.
I then asked if the District Service Manager could be scheduled to see my car personally, at the Chrysler dealer of their choice and at their convenience, since photographs do not do the damage justice as the area is next to impossible to photograph well. Chrysler Canada Customer Care refused. I expressed my concern that other LX-Body cars may share a similar rust perforation defect with the frame structure adjacent to the catalytic converters, and that I had in fact seen and photographed a 2005 Chrysler 300C at the junkyard that was starting to show similar damage.
They very firmly told me my case is closed and Chrysler Canada Customer Care will go no further with it. I told them I simply wanted my car fixed and did not wish to cause trouble for Chrysler, but I was prepared to talk to a lawyer and to go public with the problem on Dodge and Chrysler forums and to the media. I was again firmly told my case is closed and they are sorry I feel it necessary to go that route. I asked for an email address at Chrysler Canada where I could copy them any correspondence I have with Transport Canada, the NHTSA and the media, but Chrysler Canada Customer Care refused to provide that contact information.
I am very disappointed in Chrysler for not taking my frame structure rust perforation defect seriously, or at the very least having a DSM or engineer inspect the damage to my car personally. I’m stuck with an otherwise beautiful car that has a serious structural defect which makes it impossible for me to sell or trade in good conscience. I am very concerned this defect could be affecting other Chrysler LX-body cars without their owner's knowledge. As the car is unsafe to operate I have stopped driving it until it has been repaired.
Sorry for the lengthy post, but that's where my situation stands as of now. Please check the frame structure alongside the cats on your LX-Platform cars and spread the word, because I really don't want to see anyone get hurt because of rust perforation in the frame structure of their cars!
Last edited by AMC400Mopar; 11/12/14 12:34 PM.
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Re: Magnum/LX platform frame rust?
[Re: AMC400Mopar]
#1686526
11/12/14 09:42 AM
11/12/14 09:42 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,647 Ringtown, Pa.
Dartsport540
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,647
Ringtown, Pa.
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If it was mine. I would go and trade it in at a Chrysler dealership. If they don't already have your car and vin # listed or flagged. I don't think any car manufacturer is going to do anything about a rotted unibody frame, on a 9 year old car. Just my opinion... You bought a used car , without having it checked out first. I own a auto repair business, I have a lot of customers, bring used cars to me to be checked out before they buy them. I catch a lot of stuff that is rotted, because someone was getting rid of it, knowing about a problem. That is why they were selling the car, or traded it in. I also get a lot of people that bring a car in for an auto inspection , after they purchase a car. Then I find a problem like yours, and they won't pass inspection.
548 cu. in., Bill Mitchell Aluminum Block, CRT 727 auto trans, Alston Chassis. 8.981et at 149.46 mph. 1.204et - 60 foot, So Far....
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Re: Magnum/LX platform frame rust?
[Re: Dartsport540]
#1686527
11/12/14 08:27 PM
11/12/14 08:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,838 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,838
Freeport IL USA
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I sure wish I could look at this rust in person. By looking at the pictures, its difficult to determine the exact location, the degree of actual damage, and the effect the damaged area has on the structure of the car. The reality is that given the general location of the rust being the top end of the frame rails, near the transmission tunnel/firewall junction, it likely is not location for a serious structural issue. Frame rails at that location are likely designed to assist in deflecting the motor downward in the event of a major crash. The actual effect on this purpose, if that was the intended purpose, by the amount of deterioration from the existing rust is questionable.
I suspect Chrysler chose not to do anything for 3 reasons. 1) The damage from the rust is not a safety issue. 2) You were not the original purchaser. 3) The car is a structurally sound 9, and possibly 10 year old car, with nearly 100,000 miles on it.
I also don't buy that the converters caused this problem. I suspect water that has been sitting inside the frame rails, is the cause of the rust. That water may have come from above the rails, or from inside the car.
I suspect you are not in intimate danger driving this car. Its time to own up to the fact you bought a used car with a rust issue, which may, in reality, be minor. You are left with 3 choices, 1) Fix the rust. 2) Drive it and ignore the rust. 3) Junk the car and keep whining. If you choose #3, I'll take if off your hands. Gene
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Re: Magnum/LX platform frame rust?
[Re: AMC400Mopar]
#1686529
11/13/14 01:34 PM
11/13/14 01:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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One thought comes to mind, Chrysler didn't send anyone to look at it for a reason, they've already seen it elsewhere.
As for the cops auctioning off their cruiser, that is scary as all get out. Wonder if they disclosed it.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Magnum/LX platform frame rust?
[Re: Supercuda]
#1686530
11/13/14 06:41 PM
11/13/14 06:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,055 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,055
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Bottom line? It was a used car, period end of subject Chrysler in reality owes you nothing. I know it sucks but your beef should be with whoever sold you the car. Sorry.
"Come get your wife"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Front and rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Magnum/LX platform frame rust?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#1686531
11/14/14 12:53 AM
11/14/14 12:53 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315 Ontario, Canada
RealWing
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
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As a minimum you should contact Transport Canada and initiate a formal complaint about a potential safety issue. Structural defects affect the crashworthiness of a vehicle. You would think that Chrysler/Fiat would learn from the huge GM ignition switch issue of not addressing potential safety defects!!
1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto 1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto 1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible 2022 Can Am Spyder RTL
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Re: Magnum/LX platform frame rust?
[Re: Mr T2U]
#1686535
11/14/14 12:44 PM
11/14/14 12:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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It's unfortunate but you have a 10 year old car with a rust spot on the frame, bought used from a province known for being heavy on the winter salt.
The reality is that if everyone who had a car with the same amount of rust on it stopped driving their car, 1/2 or more of the 10 year old cars from your province would probably be taken off the road. Not to mention just about every non restored muscle or collector car.
If it was mine I would crawl under it, drop the exhaust, grind the rust off with a wire wheel, spray on some weld thru primer, make a patch, lap weld it on, primer and undercoat it and call it done. I've done this kind of repair many a time, it's perfectly structurally sound.
Or you could drive the car for the rest of it's service life, junk it and probably never have an issue because of this.
While I would also not be happy to see this kind of rust on my 2007 driver, I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to do anything about it.
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Re: Magnum/LX platform frame rust?
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1686536
11/14/14 12:50 PM
11/14/14 12:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,497 N.E. Ohio
KillerBee
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,497
N.E. Ohio
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Quote:
It's unfortunate but you have a 10 year old car with a rust spot on the frame, bought used from a province known for being heavy on the winter salt.
The reality is that if everyone who had a car with the same amount of rust on it stopped driving their car, 1/2 or more of the 10 year old cars from your province would probably be taken off the road. Not to mention just about every non restored muscle or collector car.
If it was mine I would crawl under it, drop the exhaust, grind the rust off with a wire wheel, spray on some weld thru primer, make a patch, lap weld it on, primer and undercoat it and call it done. I've done this kind of repair many a time, it's perfectly structurally sound.
Or you could drive the car for the rest of it's service life, junk it and probably never have an issue because of this.
While I would also not be happy to see this kind of rust on my 2007 driver, I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to do anything about it.
Sorry to hear of your situation.
If your determined to keep the car I would do what is written above (either yourself or by a trusted shop) plus add some heat shields in the area.
If you trust the place that gave you the $1100 estimate I would be taking it there.
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Re: Magnum/LX platform frame rust?
[Re: RealWing]
#1686540
11/15/14 05:59 PM
11/15/14 05:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,186 Canada -- Posts: 4034 -Registe...
5thAve
Doesn't care what this says anyway
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Doesn't care what this says anyway
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,186
Canada -- Posts: 4034 -Registe...
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Quote:
As a minimum you should contact Transport Canada and initiate a formal complaint about a potential safety issue. Structural defects affect the crashworthiness of a vehicle. You would think that Chrysler/Fiat would learn from the huge GM ignition switch issue of not addressing potential safety defects!!
Do this ^^^. It's your best option at this point unless you just trade it in.
It's not surprising that Chrysler didn't do anything when it's a 9 year old car you've only had a year. Usually car companies are more willing to help when you bought the car new or nearly new from a dealer, or if in general the car is a lot newer.
There are a bunch of people on here who own similar aged ones and quite a few who probably don't live in areas prone to rust. It would be nice if they could check their cars at some point.
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Re: Magnum/LX platform frame rust?
[Re: 5thAve]
#1686541
11/15/14 06:35 PM
11/15/14 06:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 105 ON, Canada
AMC400Mopar
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 105
ON, Canada
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Thanks for all of your input.I have made a report to Transport Canada, and also sent a report to the NHTSA.
The area of the LX frame affected is in such tight confines that it is next to impossible to properly visually inspect, let alone repair, with the engine in place. Removal of the exhaust manifolds and cats would help to enable repair to the sides of the frame rails, but it would still be a really tight welding job, and in my car's case the corrosion wraps around to the top of the rails as well.
I urge LX owners, regardless of where they live, to check their cars very carefully for rust perforation and burnt paint and E coast on the frame directly adjacent to the catalytic converters. It's a question of catalytic converter heat, not salt or water, that caused the paint and ecoat to burn off the frame and allowed the rust to form. Even if you find there is no rust YET on your LX beside the catalytic converters but the frame coating looks cooked you should get that coating repaired before rust sets in!
I realize my car is 9 years old, but are we really to expect that a well cared for Chrysler with a $40+K msrp (I have the dealer invoice for my Magnum RT, it sold new to the original owner I bought the car from for $41,269 cdn) will last less than ten years before dangerous structural problems make the car undrivable?
C'mon, every car has its issues but there are all kinds of ten or 15 year old cars on the road from all manufacturers that aren't suffering major structural problems! I don't see how Chrysler could ignore this issue, an issue a Chrysler service manager posted they have been aware of for several years now, and risk that liability. At the very least they should be calling LX cars in to be inspected at a Chrysler dealer and repaired as necessary.
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