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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: feets]
#1683752
10/15/14 01:18 PM
10/15/14 01:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
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master
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Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
IS there anything that can be done to help integrate that chin spoiler with the front of the Challenger?
I'm sure it's effective but it looks horribly tacky as it if was on sale at Pep Boys. It just doesn't "fit" the car. Perhaps if it rolled up the sides of the fenders it would look like a bit more thought went into it.
Since it is a copy of the Posey spoiler used during the '70 race season, maybe you should pose the question to someone involved in the trans am efforts of the era why everybody in the series chose such a tacky, Pep Boys approach to a race spoiler.
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1683753
10/15/14 04:29 PM
10/15/14 04:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Senior Management
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Irving, TX
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Quote:
Since it is a copy of the Posey spoiler used during the '70 race season, maybe you should pose the question to someone involved in the trans am efforts of the era why everybody in the series chose such a tacky, Pep Boys approach to a race spoiler.
Easy, Killer. I know exactly what it is.
You, of all people, know that when you're building a race car winning comes first. Performance absolutely takes precedence over all else. Pretty is the last thing on anybody's mind.
In the early 70s there were still Formula 1 teams that were operation without benefit of wind tunnels. Most stuff was shot from the hip. When something worked, you kept it.
That chunk of guard rail under the front of the car worked. Done. On to the next item.
We know far more these days and have far better manufacturing at hand. Surely there's something that can perform the same job but do so in a manner that is better integrated with the vehicle design and less of an amateurish hack than sliding an industrial size dust pan under the car.
Find me another item on the exterior of the car that is perfectly flat, sharp edged, and protruding sharply from the adjacent surface.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: feets]
#1683754
10/16/14 06:40 AM
10/16/14 06:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
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the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Quote:
Since it is a copy of the Posey spoiler used during the '70 race season, maybe you should pose the question to someone involved in the trans am efforts of the era why everybody in the series chose such a tacky, Pep Boys approach to a race spoiler.
Easy, Killer. I know exactly what it is.
You, of all people, know that when you're building a race car winning comes first. Performance absolutely takes precedence over all else. Pretty is the last thing on anybody's mind.
In the early 70s there were still Formula 1 teams that were operation without benefit of wind tunnels. Most stuff was shot from the hip. When something worked, you kept it.
That chunk of guard rail under the front of the car worked. Done. On to the next item.
We know far more these days and have far better manufacturing at hand. Surely there's something that can perform the same job but do so in a manner that is better integrated with the vehicle design and less of an amateurish hack than sliding an industrial size dust pan under the car.
Find me another item on the exterior of the car that is perfectly flat, sharp edged, and protruding sharply from the adjacent surface.
You're just mad because to put the same scale ov spoiler on your Imp you'd need to weld a garage door solid and mount it....
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: feets]
#1683757
10/16/14 03:09 PM
10/16/14 03:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
Jerry
master
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Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
now that's funny! what does he do about the rear spoiler? wing from a 747?
Industrial size snow plow.
I was going to suggest that but since your from didn't texas didn't know if you would know what a snow plow is. here in the Midwest we just about have to drive them to work in the winter.
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: feets]
#1683759
10/16/14 06:06 PM
10/16/14 06:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar
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master
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Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
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Rear spoiler? About the last thing one should be worried about is body lift or keeping the tires planted when you're pushing 5300 lbs steel around... As for filling the vacuum gap behind the car when at speed, I would look into blowing highly compressed air into that area or something 
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#1683760
10/17/14 02:18 AM
10/17/14 02:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Senior Management
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Irving, TX
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When you're packing the aerodynamics of a vending machine (and a large one at that) you don't worry too much about aero. Just add boost and tires. 
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: feets]
#1683761
10/17/14 02:45 AM
10/17/14 02:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
I got lucky at Woodward!
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I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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Quote:
Rear spoiler?
About the last thing one should be worried about is body lift or keeping the tires planted when you're pushing 5300 lbs steel around...
As for filling the vacuum gap behind the car when at speed, I would look into blowing highly compressed air into that area or something
Quote:
When you're packing the aerodynamics of a vending machine (and a large one at that) you don't worry too much about aero.
Just add boost and tires.
Well, 67Charger runs his '67 Charger at the Silver State. He was telling me that when he first got into the 120 mph class he had issues as the car would produce so much lift at some points he'd have no steering feel. That's why he added a big front splitter to his car. A rear wing will help more with traction. How much, I'm not sure, but I'd imagine quite a bit. At the last autocross even I went to I saw a '73 Camaro utilizing a huge spoiler. I asked the guys if there was really any benefit to it at low speeds and they said it had a little, but when the car hit around 50 mph it just sucked the rear end down and the car came alive. It should help with our front heavy cars. Larger tires would just be a bonus. Compare the aero of the Hellcat Charger and Challenger. Same everything, but the Charger added an extra 4 mph to its top speed and a couple tenths of a second in the 1/4 mile.
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1683762
10/17/14 06:46 AM
10/17/14 06:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar
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The Netherlands
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The 1st gen. Chargers where 'known' to have (rear) body lift when they hit the Nascar tracks. A little lip-spoiler on the decklid of those models disturbed the air well enough to fill the area behind the car quicker. The front splitter would create a low pressure area under the car and smooth out the airflow so that would helped a lot aswell I could imagine. For that same reason I would like to mount a spoiler of some sorts on my own Dart, but will only do this after I've changed to Hotchkis-shocks and perhaps better torsion bars. Mounted slightly higher than in the pic; 
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#1683763
10/17/14 10:55 AM
10/17/14 10:55 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
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All our cars will have lift front and rear lift without aero aids. The rear is in part due to the concave rear window to deck surfaces.
Charger 500 and the winged cars fixed the problem for nascar.
Last edited by uhcoog1; 10/17/14 11:10 AM.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1683766
10/17/14 12:56 PM
10/17/14 12:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Irving, TX
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Samy, you've probably seen this a billion times.  Now, what happens when you take away most of the air under the wing? The front spoiler does exactly that. It pushes that air to the side and reduces the flow under the car. It also creates a low pressure area behind the spoiler. That helps draw air through the radiator and cooling package too. The cars will have lift at the front due to the car blasting air aside. They will also have lift at the rear from the turbulence of a chopped off roof line and rear end. The rear spoilers do exactly what they say. They spoil the air flowing over the back of the car. Instead of a laminar flow they smack the air upwards and create a more turbulent flow. This increases drag in front of and behind the spoiler but the air in front of it also pushes the car down. That's why wings are more efficient. They move the air without completely blocking it's path. Take a look at this Ferrari. At 240 mph the front end has so much lift that the suspension is maxed out.  Read the link to the story behind the car. It ran 267 mph at 66% throttle. http://bobnorwood.com/Terminal%20Velocity%A0%20Norwood%208_2-Liter%20Power%20on%20the%20Salt.htmLonger cars have better control over the air flow. That's why Bonneville streamliners are really long. People complain that the smart car should get 60+ mpg on the highway. It can't because it sucks. Well, it sucks the air in behind it at speed due to the lack of bodywork. It's very turbulent as witnessed by the collection of dirt and grime on the back window. The Charger is longer than the Challenger and has more surface area to handle the air while enjoying a similar size frontal area.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: feets]
#1683769
10/18/14 07:06 AM
10/18/14 07:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
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Swears too much
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Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Take a look at this Ferrari. At 240 mph the front end has so much lift that the suspension is maxed out.
Read the link to the story behind the car. It ran 267 mph at 66% throttle.
http://bobnorwood.com/Terminal%20Velocity%A0%20Norwood%208_2-Liter%20Power%20on%20the%20Salt.htm
267mph from what looks like a (pretty much) stock-bodied Magnum era Ferrari? [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] me. Kind ov ironic coming from a guy that famously said "Aerodynamics are for guys who cant build engines."
NOW i'm impressed. A guy from my old gym drove a car like that... some 308GTO or something. I couldn't imagine going that fast in such a little skateboard...
Quote:
Longer cars have better control over the air flow. That's why Bonneville streamliners are really long.
People complain that the smart car should get 60+ mpg on the highway. It can't because it sucks. Well, it sucks the air in behind it at speed due to the lack of bodywork. It's very turbulent as witnessed by the collection of dirt and grime on the back window.
I thought long and hard about building an AMX instead ov my Challenger... its still an option. But as much as the super short wheelbase helps in some things, in this way certainly not. And yeah... i did think ov the Smart Car. Drove one once... scary on the highway. Didn't feel stable at all... which at the time i attributed to it almost being taller than it is long...
Quote:
The Charger is longer than the Challenger and has more surface area to handle the air while enjoying a similar size frontal area.
Yep... i know my car is shorter... but the Charger has that awful rear window deal, which by every account does a LOT ov damage to the ultra-high speed effort, yet still they went 190... Hmmm... If not as good, bet i'd be close. Quite honestly... i think my extremely low weight (for the size ov the car, Challengers still aint small) is going to damage any super-high MPH effort more than anything else.
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1683770
10/30/14 01:46 PM
10/30/14 01:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
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Erda, UT
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Yes, the front spoiler shown here helped immensely. The front planted down and was quite stable at 140 which was my class max and the speed I was going in this picture. The problem I had here was the tail getting light and feeling like it wanted to "wag". You can see in this pic I am down on the front suspension and from my measurements, I'm into it about an inch lower than its resting height. Bear in mind I am running 1.14" t-bars, so that is a lon of force. Next step is a small spoiler on the rear for the higher speed stuff. 
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: Years ago... Hotrod magazine... 190mph 68 Charger...
[Re: 67Charger]
#1683771
11/03/14 10:12 PM
11/03/14 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Nice pic!
I enjoy seeing the old iron going out to play.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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