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Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: brads70] #1682276
10/09/14 05:23 PM
10/09/14 05:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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Quote:

Wow that's crazy! I can see why it wouldn't last....

I did one like that for a racer years ago when the rules said no lightened gear sets. I machined pockets between the screw holes that bolted on the ring gear. Took me a lot of hours on a manual mill with a rotary table. Everything was machined with a radius, no sharp corners anywhere. The guy ran it for 4 seasons, lent it to another racer for a night and it grenade. He complained about how it didn't last very long! LOL like 2 seasons is pushing it on a gear set! He said he could feel the difference though? I think it was a 6:50 gear so the crown was really thick with lots of material removed. This was before you could buy them lightened. I've done a few gear clusters for T-10 based transmissions too. Funny how circle track stuff is all hush hush...
Fun times....




Oh that one pictured lasts fine.

We had another that was cut up WAY more that that one. That's the one that failed. It skipped a few more ring gear bolts!

Key is how you treat and maintenance the car. They always try push the car from a standing start. We used to HAVE to do that when we ran only ONE clutch disk in a multi staged clutch setup. Measured it every race. 2-3 races tops per disc.

Size and dedication of the crew go a long way.

Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: moparx] #1682277
10/17/14 06:38 PM
10/17/14 06:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline OP
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Quote:

the lower screw in joint that has the same taper as the 62-74 b&e bodies is the k719. however, that screw in joint has the same threads as the upper ball joints,





I got the Howe ball joint for a K719 and it is not the same taper or size as the B/E/A lower control arm

Last edited by brads70; 10/17/14 06:43 PM.
Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: brads70] #1682278
10/18/14 08:35 AM
10/18/14 08:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,386
north of coder
moparx Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

the lower screw in joint that has the same taper as the 62-74 b&e bodies is the k719. however, that screw in joint has the same threads as the upper ball joints,





I got the Howe ball joint for a K719 and it is not the same taper or size as the B/E/A lower control arm



now that's interesting. as of now, i have the moog brand k719 joint attached to a set of spindles and steering arms from a diplomat cop car. with that being said, i also used the same setup on my brothers 64 chrysler 300. both upper and lower joints are the same size outer threads and tapers[7*], but the lower joint stud is bigger as it is the load bearing joint. as the diplomat joint is attached to the lower arm like the 300, the mating hole is on the steering arm. where as the b/e/a joint is on the steering arm and the mating hole is on the lower control arm. i'm sure you know this already. i guess i really don't know what you are attempting to do for your application. howe,afco,qa1, and speedway brand joints are patterned after only a few moog brand joints that are popular applications in the dirt world. if you are talking nascar, i don't know what they use. if you are going to modify a factory lower arm to a screw in joint, to use your b/e/a spindles, and use a bolt in factory steering arm, the diplomat piece or 57[ish] to 64 d/p/c with the k719[moog] joint will work. please tell me what combination of spindles and arms you plan to use, and i'll try to help you with the joints needed if i can.

Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: moparx] #1682279
10/18/14 04:05 PM
10/18/14 04:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

the lower screw in joint that has the same taper as the 62-74 b&e bodies is the k719. however, that screw in joint has the same threads as the upper ball joints,





I got the Howe ball joint for a K719 and it is not the same taper or size as the B/E/A lower control arm



now that's interesting. as of now, i have the moog brand k719 joint attached to a set of spindles and steering arms from a diplomat cop car. with that being said, i also used the same setup on my brothers 64 chrysler 300. both upper and lower joints are the same size outer threads and tapers[7*], but the lower joint stud is bigger as it is the load bearing joint. as the diplomat joint is attached to the lower arm like the 300, the mating hole is on the steering arm. where as the b/e/a joint is on the steering arm and the mating hole is on the lower control arm. i'm sure you know this already. i guess i really don't know what you are attempting to do for your application. howe,afco,qa1, and speedway brand joints are patterned after only a few moog brand joints that are popular applications in the dirt world. if you are talking nascar, i don't know what they use. if you are going to modify a factory lower arm to a screw in joint, to use your b/e/a spindles, and use a bolt in factory steering arm, the diplomat piece or 57[ish] to 64 d/p/c with the k719[moog] joint will work. please tell me what combination of spindles and arms you plan to use, and i'll try to help you with the joints needed if i can.




I'm modifying a circle track steering arm to use a screw in ball joint with a pin/taper to match A/B -Body lower control arms. The K719 in close but slightly bigger than the B/E/A taper. Worse case is I can ream the hole in the LCA to fit the K719

Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: brads70] #1682280
12/16/14 02:12 AM
12/16/14 02:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline OP
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Just finished tig welding the steering arms to use screw in ball joints. I used a simple tail pipe expander to keep the threaded sleeves round while welding. Worked great no distortion at all!




Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: brads70] #1682281
12/16/14 02:36 AM
12/16/14 02:36 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline
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Quote:

Just finished tig welding the steering arms to use screw in ball joints. I used a simple tail pipe expander to keep the threaded sleeves round while welding. Worked great no distortion at all!








Pretty wild. I'll be interested to see how it all pans out.

Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1682282
12/16/14 04:30 AM
12/16/14 04:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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Nice.

Did you choose to alter the spring vs the lower ball joint to keeps it looking stock-type?

Do you think that was easier than altering the LCA for a screw in ball joint

Is that a Howe take apart adjustable ball joint?

Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: autoxcuda] #1682283
12/16/14 09:44 AM
12/16/14 09:44 AM
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Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline OP
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"Did you choose to alter the spring vs the lower ball joint to keeps it looking stock-type?" -Not sure what you mean?

"Do you think that was easier than altering the LCA for a screw in ball joint." - Yes as I'll be using A-Body LCA's I could have modified the later B-Body LCA's but to get the geometry right( roll centers) I needed to get the ball joint closer to the spindle pin.

"Is that a Howe take apart adjustable ball joint?" Yes
http://www.howeracing.com/p-7933-howe-22418-fits-k719.aspx

Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: brads70] #1682284
12/17/14 12:05 AM
12/17/14 12:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,386
north of coder
moparx Offline
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looks good. are those ball joint rings the "universal" threaded [commonly available] rings ?

Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: moparx] #1682285
12/17/14 10:43 AM
12/17/14 10:43 AM
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Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline OP
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Quote:

looks good. are those ball joint rings the "universal" threaded [commonly available] rings ?




Yep, standard circle track parts.

Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: brads70] #1682286
03/29/15 12:24 AM
03/29/15 12:24 AM
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Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline OP
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FINALLY got to work in the garage, it was up to 0C ! ::) Spent the afternoon and evening whittling out my hubs on the lathe today. I'm hoping tomorrow I'll get some time to drill the wheel studs and bolt holes that hold on the rotor.
Started with two chunks of 6061 aluminum. 13" Wilwood rotors






Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: brads70] #1682287
03/29/15 01:08 AM
03/29/15 01:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi Offline
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Why such small rotors ?

And...how well will the aluminum hold up to the stress there, does it need heat treating or anything ? (I don't really know...just curious)

And it was in the mid 90's here the past 2 days...finally cooled down into the 80's today, so was nicer in the garage too.

Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: OzHemi] #1682288
03/29/15 01:46 AM
03/29/15 01:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline OP
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Quote:

Why such small rotors ?

And...how well will the aluminum hold up to the stress there, does it need heat treating or anything ? (I don't really know...just curious)

And it was in the mid 90's here the past 2 days...finally cooled down into the 80's today, so was nicer in the garage too.



Well the stock Mercedes was 37lbs I think I read, these are 19lbs. Aluminum hubs have been used for years in circle track racing. Wilwood has aluminum hubs for street use too. These are thicker were it counts and I built in the rotor mounting plate/hat. Ya in another month or two it will be in the 90's here too, then I'll be complaining it's too hot?

Last edited by brads70; 03/29/15 02:54 PM.
Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: brads70] #1682289
03/29/15 03:03 PM
03/29/15 03:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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hmmm methinks I'll be buying more custom parts from you in the future

Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: brads70] #1682290
03/29/15 04:19 PM
03/29/15 04:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Why such small rotors ?

And...how well will the aluminum hold up to the stress there, does it need heat treating or anything ? (I don't really know...just curious)

And it was in the mid 90's here the past 2 days...finally cooled down into the 80's today, so was nicer in the garage too.



Well the stock Mercedes was 37lbs I think I read, these are 19lbs. Aluminum hubs have been used for years in circle track racing. Wilwood has aluminum hubs for street use too. These are thicker were it counts and I built in the rotor mounting plate/hat. Ya in another month or two it will be in the 90's here too, then I'll be complaining it's too hot?




Could have went carbon rotors...I recently shipped some to a buddy in Oz. 15.5" in diameter was only about 15 or 16 pounds from memory. Around $1200 or $1300 a piece as well though..


Nice looking setup though, and knew of aluminum hubs being used in racing setups, just wasn't sure what might have been done to them or how they may hold up over the long term?

Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: OzHemi] #1682291
03/30/15 11:00 AM
03/30/15 11:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline OP
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Ya those carbon rotors are pricey , not to mention the cost of the attaching hardware too. I would assume they also require a specific pad too? Like not the same pad compound as used on iron rotors?

Last edited by brads70; 03/30/15 11:01 AM.
Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: brads70] #1682292
03/30/15 01:02 PM
03/30/15 01:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi Offline
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As for attaching hardware, they have an aluminum hub already.. Here is how they came..

(Just OE Brembo ones for a ZR1. He bought OE pads too, but imagine there would be other compounds out there that work properly with them?)

Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: OzHemi] #1682293
03/30/15 01:31 PM
03/30/15 01:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline OP
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Wow very little offset on those. Rims must have lots of caliper clearance.

Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: brads70] #1682294
03/30/15 08:13 PM
03/30/15 08:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi Offline
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Yep, my buddy is getting some wheels with a pretty thick mounting pad area for clearance. (Similar to what the ZR1 would have used, but with a little more dish to the outside as well)

The S55 rotors I use,at 76mm in height are as flat as I could go with my wheels, no way could I run something like those carbon rotors. (Let alone my wheels are only 18" in diameter as well )

Re: Need help with a ball joint taper dimension [Re: OzHemi] #1797641
04/07/15 05:48 PM
04/07/15 05:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 383
Essex, Ont., Canada
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Brad, what calipers are those?


1972 Plymouth Cuda 340 4 speed 1971 Plymouth Road Runner 383 Auto 1970 Plymouth Duster /6 Auto
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