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Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: ntsqd] #1676965
11/10/14 11:44 PM
11/10/14 11:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
DoctorDiff Offline
master
DoctorDiff  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
My Stage 4 brake kit uses Mercedes rotors because they are the only off-the-shelf part deep enough to keep the fat calipers away from the spokes of a commonly available/reasonably priced wheel.

For some reason, Mercedes produces only ONE rotor with directional vanes. I talked to Centric about this last year at SEMA. They were getting complaints from customers about the straight vanes on their aftermarket rotors, so they recently started producing one directional rotor for both sides, just like the OEM Mercedes rotors.

Because Mercedes installs the same directional rotor on BOTH sides of the vehicle. I buy blank rotors and have them slotted (L and R), so at least they match the look of of the rear rotors.

Of course, Baer 2 piece Eradispeed rotors are also available, which almost double the cost of the brake kit.

Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: DoctorDiff] #1676966
11/11/14 01:24 PM
11/11/14 01:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets Offline
Senior Management
feets  Offline
Senior Management

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
Quote:

My Stage 4 brake kit uses Mercedes rotors because they are the only off-the-shelf part deep enough to keep the fat calipers away from the spokes of a commonly available/reasonably priced wheel.





Are those the same 220 chassis S-class rotors I used? They had the deep offset and were available in 13" and 14" diameters.

Sadly, the 14s are 37 lbs each.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: feets] #1676967
11/12/14 02:34 AM
11/12/14 02:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
DoctorDiff Offline
master
DoctorDiff  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
You are correct.

Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: DoctorDiff] #1676968
11/12/14 02:43 AM
11/12/14 02:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
astjp2 Offline
master
astjp2  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
Coleman will build any rotor you want, they make the hats and the rotors 2 piece so they can be rebuilt once they get wore out. Cost is a little more than a centric but they are an option. Tim


1941 Taylorcraft
1968 Charger
1994 Wrangler
1998 Wrangler
2008 Kia Rio
2017 Jetta

I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: RylisPro] #1676969
11/13/14 04:27 PM
11/13/14 04:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
When we were putting together our ChumpCar, I was explicitly to stay away from drill and slotted brakes. The drilled units tend to come apart. So far so good. We run a quality stock rotor w/ Hawk Black pads, We probably have 24 hours of racing on this set and they have about 50-60% life left.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: RylisPro] #1676970
11/18/14 04:16 PM
11/18/14 04:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3
behind you... BOO!
T
the ghoul Offline
member
the ghoul  Offline
member
T

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3
behind you... BOO!
I disagree;
I have run the "cheap" drilled rotors for many years on many different cars with no issues.By "cheap" I mean the auto store replacement rotors that some one has drilled in their shop.
Yes I agree the serve no purpose other than look cool, yes less material means less heat disapation, and yes more surface area the greater possibility of crack nuclation.... However on the street these are vary minor inefficiencys. Even in autocross events your brakes donot get hot enough for any of this to make a difference. I have found that the pads wear excessively and the rotors start to develop un-even wear long before any material fatigue can take place..... And that's on a daily driver; so these issues will be even less evident on a "good weather" car.
The quickest I have ever had a set fail was on a modern silverado I drove daily and hauled many cars/parts with. I went thru a set of ebay drilled rotors in 10k miles. Even then I blame the ceramic pads more than I do the rotors.

IMO if you like how the look go for it, if you are trying to build a "race car" you are never going to get there with ebay parts, so stop being cheap.

Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: the ghoul] #1676971
11/18/14 04:50 PM
11/18/14 04:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
About to go away
Supercuda  Offline
About to go away

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Quote:

I disagree;
I have run the "cheap" drilled rotors for many years on many different cars with no issues.By "cheap" I mean the auto store replacement rotors that some one has drilled in their shop.
Yes I agree the serve no purpose other than look cool, yes less material means less heat disapation, and yes more surface area the greater possibility of crack nuclation.... However on the street these are vary minor inefficiencys. Even in autocross events your brakes donot get hot enough for any of this to make a difference. I have found that the pads wear excessively and the rotors start to develop un-even wear long before any material fatigue can take place..... And that's on a daily driver; so these issues will be even less evident on a "good weather" car.
The quickest I have ever had a set fail was on a modern silverado I drove daily and hauled many cars/parts with. I went thru a set of ebay drilled rotors in 10k miles. Even then I blame the ceramic pads more than I do the rotors.

IMO if you like how the look go for it, if you are trying to build a "race car" you are never going to get there with ebay parts, so stop being cheap.




wow

So Professor, what is "heat disapation"?

Or "crack nuclation"?

Or this one "vary minor inefficiencys"

Kinda like a knock off professor, not the real thing but close enough for the foolish to buy.

Yeah, I know what you "meant", but if you want to be taken seriously you have to write that way, not like a beauty school drop out.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: Supercuda] #1676972
11/18/14 05:33 PM
11/18/14 05:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3
behind you... BOO!
T
the ghoul Offline
member
the ghoul  Offline
member
T

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3
behind you... BOO!
Sorry, I have a materials science background (few years of study at asm international) so the two worlds don't often play well with each other.
As far as you taking me seriously or not i don't care. I am just telling it how I see it. I have personal experence on the topic I am trying to share.
If you want to belittle me to negate that; that's your problem not mine. I don't care if you come across as the "big man" on an Internet forum.
If you want to see how this topic plays out over and over again Google it and read some of the import forums; you will find topics gong back 10+ years. Time and time again you have the alarmists and want-to-be engineers trying to convince everyone that their rotors will explode; and the people that have run them on daily drivers and autocross cars for many years that have experences no issues at all.

I've seen both sides of this and stand by the oppinion that for "race" applications there are a lot better style rotors out there. If you have a daily driver you want to run them on because you think they look good than you will be fine.

Do what you want with that, dosent hurt me one bit either way.

Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: the ghoul] #1676973
11/18/14 08:35 PM
11/18/14 08:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
RylisPro Offline OP
top fuel
RylisPro  Offline OP
top fuel

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
I agree to disagree;

I have no problems if a person wants to buy drilled rotors. I am happy that you are happy with your purchase. Everyone is entitled to buy whatever part they want.

The issue is when it comes time for me to buy the un-drilled rotors that I want, but can't because the market is saturated with drilled rotors that I don't want, then it becomes a minor inconvenience for me.

Drilled rotors are fine for the street and autocross because you don't build up heat as high when compared to driving a track day at a road course. Driving repeat extended hard laps at a road course will crack any cast iron rotor eventually, drilled or not.

I already have a spare set of un-drilled rotors so...
that makes me happy


73 `Cuda
Instagram: @rylispro
YouTube: RylisPro
www.rylispro.com
925-214-9192
Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: the ghoul] #1676974
11/18/14 08:40 PM
11/18/14 08:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets Offline
Senior Management
feets  Offline
Senior Management

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
I must admit that the grammatical errors push me into the "whatever" mindset too, especially considering that nucleation refers to creating a new self-organized structure.

I can tell you that the import crowd suggested that I stay away from most of the aftermarket rotors. I was looking at doing a little update on my 200 Super S and had an eye on the Lancer brakes. A coworker (runs an Evo at 180+ in the standing mile) referred me to some forums where guys complained about the budget brake rotor failures.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: RylisPro] #1676975
11/18/14 08:50 PM
11/18/14 08:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
Quote:



Drilled rotors are fine for the street and autocross because you don't build up heat as high when compared to driving a track day at a road course. Driving repeat extended hard laps at a road course will crack any cast iron rotor eventually, drilled or not.





Are you inferring its the elevated temps that mainly causes the cracking cracking issue? Because I thought that cracking was related more to varying and repeated temp changes, not the ultimate temp, and if that is true, seems like street use would have more and wider temp changes then a closed circuit race track use. I'm not sure of the temp swings.

I would think most would agree a drilled rotor would crack easier then a solid rotor, and most will agreed a failed rotor when being driven/used is kinda bad, where we agree to disagree and reagree is how likely that is to happen and how much risk one is comfortable with assuming that risk.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: jcc] #1676976
11/18/14 09:16 PM
11/18/14 09:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
RylisPro Offline OP
top fuel
RylisPro  Offline OP
top fuel

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
Quote:

Are you inferring its the elevated temps that mainly causes the cracking cracking issue? Because I thought that cracking was related more to varying and repeated temp changes, not the ultimate temp, and if that is true, seems like street use would have more and wider temp changes then a closed circuit race track use. I'm not sure of the temp swings.

I would think most would agree a drilled rotor would crack easier then a solid rotor, and most will agreed a failed rotor when being driven/used is kinda bad, where we agree to disagree and reagree is how likely that is to happen and how much risk one is comfortable with assuming that risk.



Probably? What the heck do I know?

I drive a 40 year old Plymouth...
I'm not that smart,
haha!


73 `Cuda
Instagram: @rylispro
YouTube: RylisPro
www.rylispro.com
925-214-9192
Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: RylisPro] #1676977
11/19/14 12:49 AM
11/19/14 12:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 40
upper So. CA
N
ntsqd Offline
member
ntsqd  Offline
member
N

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 40
upper So. CA
Holes in pretty much anything are evil stress risers, avoid them.

I know of a set of drilled rotors that didn't even make it 10k miles before cracking. Yeah, they were home drilled about 20 years ago. Don't care, no drilled for me. Those that want them know that I'm laughing at your ignorance.


I used to swerve around my hallucinations, now I drive right thru them.
Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: ntsqd] #1676978
11/19/14 01:14 PM
11/19/14 01:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets Offline
Senior Management
feets  Offline
Senior Management

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
Quote:

Holes in pretty much anything are evil stress risers, avoid them.

I know of a set of drilled rotors that didn't even make it 10k miles before cracking. Yeah, they were home drilled about 20 years ago. Don't care, no drilled for me. Those that want them know that I'm laughing at your ignorance.




Now I'm laughing at your ignorance.

Holes cast into the rotor during manufacturing do not promote stress fractures.
Holes drilled into rotors after casting will lead to fractures.

That's been proven through the years.

The holes provide limited outgassing, reduce weight, and save raw materials. They also look sporty to some people. That's why they get used.

Sometimes performance oriented auto manufacturers investigate things a wee bit more thoroughly than internet keyboard warriors.

















Now, would you like to revise that statement?


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: feets] #1676979
11/20/14 01:41 AM
11/20/14 01:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101 Offline
I got lucky at Woodward!
MuuMuu101  Offline
I got lucky at Woodward!

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
Feets does speak truth to his claim. The reason why rotors that are drilled tend to fail quicker than rotors that are cast all has to do with the grain structure. When you drill into a rotor, you are drilling through the grains and interrupting the grain structure (i.e. around the holes, the grains are going to be smaller due to the material you removed vs. the rest of the structure). The rotors that are cast with holes in the casting are going to have a fairly equal grain structure throughout the whole structure (including the area around the holes). That's as much detail as I can throw out at the moment about materials with 3 hours of sleep.

Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: MuuMuu101] #1676980
11/20/14 01:51 AM
11/20/14 01:51 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
amxautox  Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
And don't forget that when you drill, you are actually tearing the metal. That leaves stress risers all around the hole. Thus it can crack in any direction, sometimes in all directions at once.


Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown

Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: amxautox] #1676981
11/20/14 12:03 PM
11/20/14 12:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
I think we are splitting hairs here, a hole, drilled or cast, is a stress riser compared to no hole, period.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: jcc] #1676982
11/20/14 04:02 PM
11/20/14 04:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets Offline
Senior Management
feets  Offline
Senior Management

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
Quote:

I think we are splitting hairs here, a hole, drilled or cast, is a stress riser compared to no hole, period.




The king of splitting hairs comments about others splitting hairs?






Obviously, rotors with holes are inferior to non-holed rotors. That's why you'll never see them on supercars costing hundreds of thousands of dollars.




OOPS!! I misspoke. That car cost a couple million dollars, runs 250+ mph, and has zero engineering behind it.
Stupid VW! What were they thinking?


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: feets] #1676983
11/20/14 04:12 PM
11/20/14 04:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 842
Urbana, MD
B
bordin34 Offline
super stock
bordin34  Offline
super stock
B

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 842
Urbana, MD
I replaced the rotors on a Dinan Tuned E60 2005 BMW M5, the one with the 500hp v10. It had been driven hard and the rotors only had 140,000 miles on them. They are drilled.

Re: Please don't buy drilled rotors!!! [Re: bordin34] #1676984
11/20/14 04:18 PM
11/20/14 04:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets Offline
Senior Management
feets  Offline
Senior Management

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
I guess I shouldn't talk about Louis Hamilton's McLaren road car. After a robust outing at Circuit of the Americas the front brakes were toast.
Those drilled ceramic rotors not only outlasted the pads, they actually ground away the pad backing plate while remaining in spec.
The techs at the shop were passing around pics of the carnage. I wish I had them forward them to me.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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